topic Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk? in Relationships and Money

Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

Kesh — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:51:49 GMT

My bf and I have been together for going on 2 years (a wonderful 2 years might I add). We have shared our dreams, ambitions, goals, and expectations of the relationship; however we barely touched the surface of finances. If we have talked about finances it's "you make more than X, right?" or "my student loans are current and in repayment". No real conversation about how money is managed (i.e., pay your bills before you go shopping, carry no balance on your cc, etc.).

I want to ensure that our relationship, if taken to the "next level", can handle finances. So what do you think? Is me wanting to discuss financial habits premature? If not, would you provide advice on how to approach the conversation?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

FrugalRican — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:10:29 GMT

My girlfriend and I did it at the 1.5 year mark.

We figured, that if we were serious enough to talk about long-term, finances needed to be included.

2 years is good enough if you both have started the "M-word" talk, home talk, and all that good stuff.

Just don't be too pushy about it.

My girlfriend "initiated" the talks but structured it in a way to make it seem like it was my idea (I knew what she was doing, but I played along).

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

Kesh — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:13:47 GMT

Thanks FrugalRican.

We've had those conversations. At one point I was looking to buy a house, which I had to re-evaluate, so I was a little more open (still vague) about my finances.

I just don't want him to think I'm being nosey. I've had some troubles with finances (as indicated by my scores below), but I have definitely learned A LOT from this board. I'm now at a point in my life where I know for certain I don't want to EVER make the same missteps whether because of my doing or anyone else's.

You always see stats saying "the #1 cause of divorce is finances". When we get to the "marriage" point I want it to be blissful and no tumultuous due to finances.

OK so it appears I need to craft a plan.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

FrugalRican — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:20:09 GMT

Kesh wrote:
Thanks FrugalRican.

We've had those conversations. At one point I was looking to buy a house, which I had to re-evaluate, so I was a little more open (still vague) about my finances.

I just don't want him to think I'm being nosey. I've had some troubles with finances (as indicated by my scores below), but I have definitely learned A LOT from this board. I'm now at a point in my life where I know for certain I don't want to EVER make the same missteps whether because of my doing or anyone else's.

You always see stats saying "the #1 cause of divorce is finances". When we get to the "marriage" point I want it to be blissful and no tumultuous due to finances.

OK so it appears I need to craft a plan.

Don't over-think it though, if you two are that comfortable with each other, just be a bit open about it.

My girlfriend didn't come right out and ask me how much money I had or what my credit was... she was sort of vague about it, asked me how I was doing financially. She definitely laid the groundwork months before by asking how much I made, how much rent I paid, so she kind of figured out the paycheck from there.

But it became a matter of asking what retirement goals were, bank accounts, and credit reports.

I work for a financial institution and have parents that divorced mainly due to financials, so I was a lot more receptive to having these talks with her.

But at some point, it needs to happen, and it's not about offending, but it's about embracing a future together.

If he seems a bit adverse about opening up regarding his financials, just phrase it in a way that seems to benefit the two of you. You DEFINITELY need to have the talk before marriage. You don't want to be the one that married a guy with 50K credit card debt who overspends constantly... and "you didn't even have a clue".

Just don't come out and ask him for his account totals and credit score lol

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

drkaje — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:46:11 GMT

Honesty is the best plan.

You really don't want to have financial stuff all messy before getting married. :)

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

FrugalRican — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:56:42 GMT

I agree, I'd rather have the "awkward" talk before marriage, then get shell-shocked after the ink on the certificate has long dried.

I've found that people who get defensive about this talk, more often than not, are hiding something that could be a potential red flag.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

drkaje — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:43:01 GMT

FR,

I agree with every word of your post except potential. :)

I'm not saying people can't/don't make financial missteps and work their way back. Simply that if you're situation is a mess, be honest about it upfront and have a real, concrete, plan to clean stuff up that doesn't involve my participation.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

marty56 — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 01:05:12 GMT

A little over 10 years ago I was left at the alter, the stated reason was 70k of CC debt. Most people I knew back then who were involved in the situation wrote me off as well.

I honestly don't know if that was the real reason or not since she wound up with the guy I was competing with but I had so much stress on me while I was hiding the 70k of CC debt. Fast forward to today and things are great and in many ways she did me a favor.

The one thing I regret from back then more then the 70k of CC debt was I didn't lay it all out. Not for her, for me.

Do yourself a favor and both of you lay it all out as soon as you can.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

drkaje — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 03:21:05 GMT

The "talk" should be with yourself before seriously dating anyone. :)

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

crunching_numbers — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 05:40:19 GMT

marty56 wrote:
A little over 10 years ago I was left at the alter, the stated reason was 70k of CC debt. Most people I knew back then who were involved in the situation wrote me off as well.
I honestly don't know if that was the real reason or not since she wound up with the guy I was competing with but I had so much stress on me while I was hiding the 70k of CC debt. Fast forward to today and things are great and in many ways she did me a favor.

The one thing I regret from back then more then the 70k of CC debt was I didn't lay it all out. Not for her, for me.

Do yourself a favor and both of you lay it all out as soon as you can.

I think there is the honesty and trust factor here too. If you could be dishonest about $70K of debt, how could she trust the rest?

My DH and I had always been open about finances. We have had a joint checking account since before we are married. "We" have "our" bills, and we came into the marriage without much debt, except for wedding costs. We were both living paycheck to paycheck anyways.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

cassembler — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 21:39:50 GMT

drkaje wrote:
The "talk" should be with yourself before seriously dating anyone. :)

+100,000

I didn't find out about my wife's finances until I asked her father for his blessing... He pulled out some envelopes (collectors) and said, before you do this, you need to know some things... (They were all from an ex that ripped her credit to shreds). But, my credit was barely recovering at that point anyway, but I did bring it up after proposing. (Basically, in Texas at least, debt previous to marriage (generally) remains a non-community obligation (i.e. separate).)

Since then, both of us are sticking to plan and any financial decisions are committee only. It's worked 100% perfectly, after we ironed out the wrinkles of course :)

The worst thing you can do is not talk about it at all!

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

marty56 — Sat, 07 Apr 2012 12:58:56 GMT

crunching_numbers wrote:
I think there is the honesty and trust factor here too. If you could be dishonest about $70K of debt, how could she trust the rest?

Except for my baby sister who always believed in me, everyone else told me the same thing.

How many people tell their friends and other family members about their debt? It that being dishonest?

Would you dump your best friend, sister or brother because of it?

Exactly how does my CC debt hurt you if I am responsble for paying it and pay it on time?

I worked hard to get ride of my CC debt. I have a great DW who loves me for who I am, not for how much money I make or what is on my CR.

I know most people here won't agree with me but I am lucky to have at least 2 people in my life who do. That's enough for me.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

drkaje — Sat, 07 Apr 2012 14:25:03 GMT

@Marty,

I don't think people get left at the altar for CC debt. If everything were out in the open you would have gotten another excuse.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 07 Apr 2012 16:28:11 GMT

marty56 wrote:
crunching_numbers wrote:
I think there is the honesty and trust factor here too. If you could be dishonest about $70K of debt, how could she trust the rest?

Except for my baby sister who always believed in me, everyone else told me the same thing.

How many people tell their friends and other family members about their debt? It that being dishonest?
Would you dump your best friend, sister or brother because of it?
Exactly how does my CC debt hurt you if I am responsble for paying it and pay it on time?

I worked hard to get ride of my CC debt. I have a great DW who loves me for who I am, not for how much money I make or what is on my CR.

I know most people here won't agree with me but I am lucky to have at least 2 people in my life who do. That's enough for me.

Maybe it wasn't the debt itself, but the fact that you kept it a secret. Or maybe you didn't, she knew all along, and used it as an excuse. (I lost track of the timeline.)

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

marty56 — Sat, 07 Apr 2012 16:52:31 GMT

drkaje wrote:
@Marty,

I don't think people get left at the altar for CC debt. If everything were out in the open you would have gotten another excuse.

Yes I knew it was an excuse.

In answer to the OP's question and if I had it to do over again, I would have mentioned it on the first date.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

drkaje — Sat, 07 Apr 2012 22:15:58 GMT

marty56 wrote:
drkaje wrote:
@Marty,

I don't think people get left at the altar for CC debt. If everything were out in the open you would have gotten another excuse.
Yes I knew it was an excuse.

In answer to the OP's question and if I had it to do over again, I would have mentioned it on the first date.

Finances affect all aspects of relationships, on some level. That being said; a person in love will live with you under a bridge... they just need to know how to pack in advance. :)

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

Scope27 — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 18:34:15 GMT

With me being 25 and about to go down on bended knee in two weeks to propose to by GF of 4 years I say if you truly are 100% comfortable and seek a future with her then the finance talk should follow soon. I am not one to tell ppl my financial situation until I am in a committed relationship with that person and trust has been established on both sides. When I met my gf I had a part-time job, 80% of my finances went to bills and the rest went to food and gas. I knew I wasnt in a position to have a girlfriend. She insisted on being in a relationship and I laid my financials on the table at that moment as I was comfortable with her and we've been talking for a few months then. She helped me establish a better budget without ever lending a dollar. Shortly after I got a better job and she made me maintain my same budget and I was only utilizing about 30-40% of my monthly income. Had I not initiated that talk IDK how my finances would be now but I know my credit will still be shot and I wouldnt be a homeowner now. I highly suggest having the talk if you feel he is the one.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

my-own-fico — Tue, 10 Apr 2012 21:39:44 GMT

Human beings have all kinds of irrational fears and anxieties about everyday objects and situations: spiders and snakes, heights and enclosed spaces, airplanes and needles. Finances.

I'm kidding. The last word is Math. But are finances and math all that separate? They're both about handling numbers. Anxiety becomes avoidance. When people say warmer temperatures instead of higher temperatures, maybe that's avoidance filled with sugar coding. A temperature is a number and a number can't be warm, but the word warm has a feel good thing about it. And warm is self-contained; it doesn't matter if it's hot chocolate or a summer day, we love it. High and low need a reference to make sense. No avoidance there.

Not that therapeutic counseling may be needed necessarily. Interestingly, the children with math anxiety weren't actually bad at math - they got about the same number of answers right as their anxiety-free peers - but it took them more time to solve the problems. Of course it'll be much longer before they get married. :smileyvery-happy:

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

tonyaether — Fri, 13 Apr 2012 04:09:46 GMT

I would say have mini-talks the whole while you are regularly dating. When I say mini-talks I mean the light but probing questions that give you a little bit of insight. But the "big" talk needs to defnitely be at the point in your relationship when you find yourself getting serious with the person and BEFORE marriage. I didn't do that and I wish that I would have. Even if one of you has problems, it at least gives you both time to plan a financial strategy before you make that type of commitment. It makes things much easier. But you live and you learn. I am just learning this at 35! I should have known it years ago. That is the one thing I do stress to my daughter since she has left home for college. When she meets the right person that she is thinking of settling down with, she should never be afraid to discuss these types of things. It's just as important as asking someone their career path or how many children they want to have. People are less reluctant to ask those types of questions, but are very sensitive about discussing finances. All of those things are intertwined.

Re: Advice Needed: When to Have the "Finance" Talk?

webhopper — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 05:30:32 GMT

I would say its definately time to start talking. If you see yourself being with this person in a long term relationship, its going to be beneficial to get everything out in the open... my fiance and I met on match.com, I think we talked about it on our 3rd date.... all he knew was that I had a job. He was asking me things like why did I have two vehicles and this and that... and I'm like, um did my profile list my income... I was real embarrassed because he is very country and down to earth and at that time he was making much less than he does now. I was making over 100k and he was making around 28k... now he's up to 65k with some strategic career changes.

I think the main thing is that I wanted him to be the kind of guy that money didn't matter. and he's real proud of me and who I am and my work. So ya, litereally I found out he was the kind of guy that would be happy living under a bridge because he didn't need material things to be happy. Literally we spent 2 months on the fold out couch of my dad's fifth wheel and he never complained. Luckily we moved into our new home in January... I think the house search and underwriting made us talk about money more and be more comfortable with the topic