topic Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee in Relationships and Money

Financially UNstable Fiancee

kjc143 — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:30:38 GMT

What is the best way to merge finances with someone who's not great (at all) at managing their finances? My fiancee hasn't really learned that there is opportunity cost for everything that you do, and that whatever your current choices are, you HAVE to give something up in return. We're beginning the process of merging things together, and to a point he really seems ok with abdicating all rights to truly help manage our finances in the future. I know that's not smart because if I handle everything then if something happens to me, he'll have no idea where to jump in. In addition, he just needs to learn how to do this as an adult, anyway. Does anyone have suggestions on how to do this in a way that works for both of us? (1. Doesn't overwhelm either of us, 2. We build up a good savings, 3. Doesn't result in a parent-child relationship - I really don't want to tell him what his 'allowance' is every month)

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

FrugalRican — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:38:16 GMT

The real question is: Does he WANT to learn?

I was in a past relationship for 6 years and she just handed everything over to me and never really cared. She had bad credit, outstanding loans, etc.

It drove me bananas.

In my current relationship, I sit down with my girlfriend and we talk about our finances.
We've seen each others credit reports/scores and know each other's balances.

It's a whole different ball game when you have someone who is playing as your partner on a team rather than just being the coach to a player who doesn't want to win.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

webhopper — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 22:33:02 GMT

I recommend a book called My Total Money Makeover, get the book and the kit, and it will give you guys a methodology in setting financial goals and creating a budget together... using this program, both parties are responsible for the finances and budgeting, so you get to eliminate the "mommy-mode" or "parent-child" aspect of the relationship. The program will help him have insight into managing finances in a way that minimizes risk and helps to create a managed cash flow and mutual goals. He can't literally abdicate all financial rights... He needs to be accountable in that he plays a role in deciding the budget. He can decide that yes, you pay these bills, but also he needs to not neglect financial decisions and discussions alltogether. That is not a loving way to handle the financial merger.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

kjc143 — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 01:46:11 GMT

SynnDiesel, I'm honestly not sure if he wants to learn and that's where the stress is coming from for me. It also doesn't help that he's a procrastinator (and I try NOT to nag) and my family as a whole went through financial stress when I was in my last few years of college so one of my primary goals in life is to never be financially unstable again. His laid back approach to financial management worries me about our future together. I also believe that for a couple to be successful this is one item that true partnership isn't an option because if we can't find common ground there will always be friction.

webhopper, I will definitely check out My Total Money Makeover and hope that it's a tool that sheds some light.

Thanks guys!

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

drkaje — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 01:49:47 GMT

Helping and/or teaching is fine but I really wouldn't want to parent an adult.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

IOBA — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 03:37:30 GMT

kjc143 - DO NOT merge your finances!

* You keep your cc, loans, and bank accounts in your name, to yourself.

* Let him keep his to himself.

This way, you are less likely to suffer from his lack of financial interest.

* Don't bail his butt out either, when he gets into financial stress/distress. You can offer to help him figure out solutions, but let him suffer the consequences of his choices.

* If he will learn (and you have said he doens't care to at this time), then try different approaches. The book & kit someone recommended. Monopoly money.

* Are you in a community property state? If so, then his bads (not paying bills, etc) could affect you as creditors try to get you to pay.

Last, you might want to reconsider marriage to him.

Please let us know how things progress.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 04:17:25 GMT

kjc143 wrote:
What is the best way to merge finances with someone who's not great (at all) at managing their finances? My fiancee hasn't really learned that there is opportunity cost for everything that you do, and that whatever your current choices are, you HAVE to give something up in return. We're beginning the process of merging things together, and to a point he really seems ok with abdicating all rights to truly help manage our finances in the future. I know that's not smart because if I handle everything then if something happens to me, he'll have no idea where to jump in. In addition, he just needs to learn how to do this as an adult, anyway. Does anyone have suggestions on how to do this in a way that works for both of us? (1. Doesn't overwhelm either of us, 2. We build up a good savings, 3. Doesn't result in a parent-child relationship - I really don't want to tell him what his 'allowance' is every month)

Just an observation here from someone feeling her age more and more, every day:

In a marriage/ partnership, you don't necessarily need to have each partner equally capable of doing everything. For instance, I might be the go-to person for laundry and check-book balancing, and my partner might be the one who grills and pulls out the toolbox to keep things running.

Sure, it's always possible that "something might happen to you", but chances are, it won't. If your fiance is genuinely happy with you handling the finances, and that includes you having veto power when he wants to buy a bass boat or something, then why not? A friend of mine, a gifted engineer and salesman, explained that his wife handled all the money details in their 30-year marriage by saying, "We go with our strengths."

If he really, really is OK with you alloting the money most of the time, then why not look on this as the exact equivalent of one of you doing the laundry, another vacuuming, the first emptying the litterbox, and the other keeping the cars maintained? It's all just Stuff --the day-to-day details of managing a household, and there's nothing wrong with one of you being in charge of a certain area, as long as you both agree on how everything breaks out.

Money is a definite power party in a partnership, and you both need to understand how it affects your relationship (you seem to think that you might wind up being the mom) and your long-term goals.

I'd give it a try for a good six months, if not more, before you get married. Take over as much of the $$$ stuff as he's comfortable with. Have regular meetings (or less formally, quick update sessions) about what you're doing and why. Gauge his reactions to what you do, and explain your reasoning if he gets cranky. If it turns out that he's a whiner about not getting to blow money on random junk, then that's probably your message that this isn't where you want to be forever.

If it turns out that he's a pouter, or a whiner, or a rager, and he wants to have all the fun of using money and none of the responsibility, then he's probably a perpetual child, and not someone that you want to share a yoke with. You want to find this out now, not later.

Try not to get too caught up in all the "oughts." Find out where both of you really are, and see what makes sense for your own unique relationship. :)

edit to add: and if, God forbid, something happens to you, he will have a model to follow when he's on his own.

I do worry a bit about you saying "he just needs to learn how to do this as an adult, anyway." We women have a bad way of trying to mother the men in our lives, and change them into some version of an Ideal Man. He's a human being, just as you are, and he should be allowed to bring his own unique strengths and weaknesses into your relationship, just as you should be. When you start assigning "needs" to your partner, it might be saying more about you, than it is about him. Just a thought.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

IOBA — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:25:35 GMT

haulingthescoreup - that was very nicely said.

OP - let us know how things work out. I think combining the advice (keeping the credit individual, not bailing him out) plus what hauling said would be a great combo.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

liebsaz — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:11:49 GMT

Am I the only one that feels that a partner with a poor financial record, and no ability to manage their own finances is a deal breaker?

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

GregB — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:55:38 GMT

liebsaz wrote:
Am I the only one that feels that a partner with a poor financial record, and no ability to manage their own finances is a deal breaker?

NO, you are not!

Run! Quickly!

I have only seen this work out one time, ever.

FWIW this is the first time I have ever used large fonts in a post.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

FrugalRican — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:10:56 GMT

She'd be fine if there were no resentment issues, but the fact that original post even exists... means there probably is a bit of it.

I normally would tell an unmarried man to run away from a woman such as the OP's, if the man has exhausted all other options to get her involved.

Here, the situation is a little further along.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

FloridaState12 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:08:46 GMT

I'm a LONG ways away from getting married, but the thought of marrying a financially unstable person in this kind of environment just makes me cringe. They better be otherwise PERFECT in every way or I'd say you have to get your finances in order before we even think about getting married. Finances are just too important to overlook, IMO.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with what hauling said...each person controls what they're good at. So he's in charge of home repairs, car maintenance, etc. and you're in charge of the money, household stuff, etc (not to sound stereotypical or condescending). My dad makes nearly 4x as much as my mom, but my mom handles all of the finances. She's just better at managing money and staying on top of the bills. I don't think there's any shame in it...you guys are in it together, might as well play to your strengths.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:54:04 GMT

I'm not saying that someone with major financial issues in their past shouldn't set off all sorts of ding-ding-dings in your head.

I'm just saying that IF the partner is genuinely content and relieved to let the other manage all the money issues (there are such people; it really does happen), it's not an automatic deal-breaker.

Sort of like Celia in "The Help" who genuinely could not boil water, but her hubby didn't care. They worked around it. (My apologies for the girly reference there.)

But as I said, if there's any sort of pouting or whining or raging about the decisions being made, then to heck with it.

f you want to help in the financial decision-making, then suck it up and learn how to deal with money and have an equal partnership. If you are genuinely relieved to have it taken out of your hands, and you trust the money person to make wise choices, then that's great. But if you're going to slob around and run up the CC's and be unrealistic and demanding, and then criticize the decisions by the person doing all the work, then as the saying goes, don't let the door hit ya where the dog bit ya.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

FrugalRican — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 15:01:33 GMT

There's nothing wrong with seeing "The Help". I still retained my masculinity after it.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

kjc143 — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:59:51 GMT

I definitely will take the suggestions under advisement. I DO want to say that I'm neither bitter or resentful; if I was then I'd be breaking the engagement instead of trying to figure out way to move forward. I'm honestly scared, and wondering what's the best way to make things work; that's why I posted the question. I want to make sure that there's no resentment from either side down the line and that we can achieve the goals that we have. The reason why I want him involved and not just 'letting me' manage the finances is because it's hard to make and implement plans that everyone involved doesn't understand and/or agree with. But, from what I'm seeing here there may be some ways to make it work. I'll send an update in a few months.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

IOBA — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:24:46 GMT

As much as you want it to work, it may or may not.

Please take all the advice with a grain of salt.

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

my-own-fico — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:43:03 GMT

haulingthescoreup wrote:

I'm just saying that IF the partner is genuinely content and relieved to let the other manage all the money issues (there are such people; it really does happen), it's not an automatic deal-breaker.

Hey, hold your horses! What if the other needs to withdraw money from the partner's checking account? What if the other needs to pull the partner's credit score? I have searched this thread for the word consent and did not find it. :smileysurprised:

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

MarineVietVet — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:30:10 GMT

my-own-fico wrote:
haulingthescoreup wrote:

I'm just saying that IF the partner is genuinely content and relieved to let the other manage all the money issues (there are such people; it really does happen), it's not an automatic deal-breaker.

Hey, hold your horses! What if the other needs to withdraw money from the partner's checking account? What if the other needs to pull the partner's credit score? I have searched this thread for the word consent and did not find it. :smileysurprised:

Hi my-own-fico,

I've read your words over and over since last night and with all due respect I have no idea what you're trying to say here. What do your comments have to do with the subject matter? If I'm just not understanding please enlighten me.

I happen to agree with HTSU and her views in this thread. (That will shock her :smileyhappy: ). Each person within each relationship has to decide what is right for them. What my wife or I might do in our marriage whether financial or otherwise is not binding in the least on anyone else.

There is no one right or wrong answer or approach to how couples handle finances.

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem".

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

my-own-fico — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:46:36 GMT

MarineVietVet wrote:

If I'm just not understanding please enlighten me.
I happen to agree with HTSU and her views in this thread.

It's called asking for clarification. :smileysurprised: :smileyvery-happy:

As for agreeing or disagreeing with someone, that's too distracting for me.

Is hauling not available? Hope I didn't scare her away. :smileysad:

Re: Financially UNstable Fiancee

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:27:17 GMT

my-own-fico wrote:
MarineVietVet wrote:

If I'm just not understanding please enlighten me.
I happen to agree with HTSU and her views in this thread.

It's called asking for clarification. :smileysurprised: :smileyvery-happy:
As for agreeing or disagreeing with someone, that's too distracting for me.

Is hauling not available? Hope I didn't scare her away. :smileysad:

Not hardly. Some of us work for a living, and spent 60-some-odd hours at the office this week. What is this bit about "consent"? Where'd you get that one? Asking for clarification.