topic Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by... in Relationships and Money

Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

KeithW — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 03:58:12 GMT

My wife and I work for my parents at the family business. We both enjoy our work and plan to take over the business after my parents retire. The business is pretty small and only makes about half a million per year with 6 employees. Before things got tough we did almost a million a year.

Now that you have some background I am wanting peoples opinion on our pay. My wife and I together make a little over $61,000 a year. Looking at department of labor stats it says that the median household income in our area is only about $45,000 per year. You would think that we would be doing ok but I really find these numbers hard to believe. We are able to pay our bills, and do go out to eat more than we should, but it seems like everyone we know has so much more money to spend on this and that.

Basically I am wanting some people to chime in and tell me if we are making a fair wage for someone living in a small city in Missouri. I have never worked for anyone besides my family so I really don't know and statistics can be misleading. Thanks for any input.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

FrugalRican — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 04:41:09 GMT

If you can afford to "go out to eat more than you should" than I'd say you are doing fine.

I'm pretty sure that if you cut out those restaurant expenses, you'd probably see the true income you are making, a lot more.

But I've also learned to run my financial life as if I were a horse with blinders on. I can only run my fastest in the race if I look forward and not towards my sides.

The best way to get ahead is to not try to compare yourself to everyone else.

Be honest, how many times a week do you two go out to eat?

I'm willing to bet, you two also spend in other ways that you guys don't really notice or don't take into consideration as an unnecessary expense.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

my25reasons — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 13:44:42 GMT

" My wife and I together make a little over $61,000 a year "

How many hours a week do you each work? Do you earn an hourly wage or a salary? What do you pay the other employees?

There are so many variables that you haven't mentioned, that it would be impossible to say if what you make is fair or not.

I went to college for 10 years - 2 associates degrees and a bachelors degree. I make 33k a year- $16 an hour / 40 hrs a week. Almost barely enough to support myself and my daughter, but better than a lot of the people I know. Your wage seems fair to me, considering my stats, but then again...

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

webhopper — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:08:37 GMT

KeithW wrote:
My wife and I work for my parents at the family business. We both enjoy our work and plan to take over the business after my parents retire. The business is pretty small and only makes about half a million per year with 6 employees. Before things got tough we did almost a million a year.

Now that you have some background I am wanting peoples opinion on our pay. My wife and I together make a little over $61,000 a year. Looking at department of labor stats it says that the median household income in our area is only about $45,000 per year. You would think that we would be doing ok but I really find these numbers hard to believe. We are able to pay our bills, and do go out to eat more than we should, but it seems like everyone we know has so much more money to spend on this and that.

Basically I am wanting some people to chime in and tell me if we are making a fair wage for someone living in a small city in Missouri. I have never worked for anyone besides my family so I really don't know and statistics can be misleading. Thanks for any input.

Would you be making more if you were working somewhere else? That's the question you should ask... If the answer is yes, then I would talk to the parents and explain to them that you would be making "X" amount of dollars if you were working for "Y"

They could conceivably increase your compensation by providing you a company vehicle, or matching your IRA contributions, or something along those lines which would be tax deductible for the business, and would help you and the wife feel like you were getting ahead instead of barely getting by. They could also start giving you company shares as part of your compensation and to help them with estate planning, if they do indeed plan on leaving you the business when they die... I would say that there are many variables in here that can be worked on so that you and the wife don't end up feeling like hamsters in the wheel.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

inthelight314 — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:57:22 GMT

What are your expenses? If you are having trouble getting by you need to look at what you're bringing in and what's going out, and see what unnecessary expenses can be cut out. Certainly dining out is not a necessary expense.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

GregB — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:56:40 GMT

If you are working for a small business that has half the gross sales of a few years ago, you may be lucky that you have a job at all. The fact that you will eventually own the business is also a big plus.

In this current economy, I couldn't keep anyone that had worked for me less than 15 years. The ones that remained took a 20% pay cut, followed by another 20% last year. Highly skilled and with 25 years experience they are making way less than you are and I'm sure the cost of living in California is far higher.

I made $6000 last year from that business, which is much better than the year before. I have another small business but have NO employess left. When you add the two together I made about $38,000 last year for an average 75-80 hour work week. That is about $1000/month for everything after paying house payment + taxes + insurance. My youngest is now a teenager and starting to "need" things I can't afford.

What is this concept of going out to eat? I don't think I remember what that means.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

KeithW — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 18:24:24 GMT

I guess my biggest problem is the people we associate with all seem to have so much more money than we do. It just gets to where you don't appreciate that you have more than lots of others you don't know and things could be so much worse.

Everything I see on tv tends to be based on the coasts and they talk about barely scraping by when they are making 2-3 times what I do. I do take comfort in the fact that I enjoy my work and get to work with my family everyday.

It also doesn't help that many people tend to exaggerate their own income.

I make an hourly wage and overtime does certainly help. I alone make around 32K without overtime. Last year though I cleared 38K because of the extra work.

We tend to eat out everyday for lunch, which tends to be about 15-20 bucks and then we go out to eat once per week with her family and another night with my family, which is about $70 a week. We enjoy doing this, but to me it really isn't worth the cost. Our parents are both in much better shape than we are and don't mind the costs. We are on the other hand are raising two kids and trying to buy a house.

Thanks for the moral support and letting me complain.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

FrugalRican — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 18:51:43 GMT

KeithW, maybe I can put this in a bit more perspective for you.

I used to do a similar job than what I do now. Back in 2006, I got paid $8 an hour to do it and that was considered a "high" salary in Puerto Rico. I made a lot less than 20K a year.

In 2012, I barely scratch to 30K and I live in New Jersey.

There are times where it feels like I used to have more disposable income back in Puerto Rico than I did in New Jersey.

But technically, I am making more now.

It's all a case of "YMMW" when it comes to standards of living. Everything is comparable, but comparing a salary from Missouri to one in New York is like apples and oranges.

By all means, you are both living very comfortably if you can afford to spend:

$75 a week on lunches or $300 a month on lunches ALONE. Factor in yearly and your lunches are costing you two: $3,600.

Either way you cut it, it's a nice chunk of income. There are a lot of people that can't afford to go eat out. Maybe cut down a few lunches, and take some dinner leftovers.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

inthelight314 — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 19:18:13 GMT

Sometimes you just have to make the best with what you have and not feel sorry about it. So what if others have so much more? Good for them. That's not your present reality. Doesn't mean their lives are so much better or so much more fulfilling. How many people have less than you and would love to make as much as you do? Not to put you down... but what you and your wife are spending on food sounds rediculous in my opinion! It doesn't sound like you're just getting by. Just getting by is trimming all your expenses to the bare neccessities, and still living pay check to pay check with nothing saved.

My boyfriend and I spend about $500 a month on food (this is a rough estimate), and we live in New Jersey. That's including cat food and litter, and some household items. In addition to that we go out to eat maybe once a month, but not always every month. We really try to limit eating out as a once a month treat at most. I try to buy as many store generic food items as I can when grocery shopping. We rarely put an item in our cart without first comparing prices. I usually base the meals I cook for us on what's on sale that week. As for lunch... we both have a ham sandwhich and salad each day that we make oursevles. We don't buy lunch out. Even if I had the money to do so, I would feel like I was throwing away my cash that could go to better financial goals. We both have debt and that's our priority to pay it down.

If you are familiar with the personal finance expert Suze Orman, she always says that people who make more tend to spend more. There are people that make way more, but then have even more debt. It's because a lot of our personal wealth is in our spending habits if we have a reasonable income.

So if you can't up your income, maybe you just need to really take a look at your expenses, and see what are wants and needs and make some sacrifice.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

FrugalRican — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 19:21:09 GMT

inthelight314 wrote:

If you are familiar with the personal finance expert Suze Orman, she always says that people who make more tend to spend more. There are people that make way more, but then have even more debt. It's because a lot of our personal wealth is in our spending habits if we have a reasonable income.

Mo Money, Mo Problems.

I live in Jersey as well, so I feel your pain.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

IOBA — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 02:05:09 GMT

KeithW - having lived in MO, yeah, your income is pretty darn decent! Even working 54 hrs at one job - it was considered VERY high paying - I didn't make your salary.

I live elsewhere now. Income has changed. We have much more income, but the cost of living is so much higher where we are now. We live paycheck to paycheck and are able to save a little. But we also live very frugally. I do purchase groceries on sale, I try to make most things from scratch (we grind our own meat, make our own flour, sauces, etc), have a little garden, shower at the gym when possible, etc. We don't compare ourselves to family or to neighbors or to co-workers. And our family definitely does NOT understand why we live the way we do. (We live within our means, not on borrowed income. Pretty much everything we have is paid for. If we can't afford it, we decline. It's a bit tough at family reunions when the others have adventures that would cost us $100-250 a pop, but they know by now, if we can't pay cash, we aren't doing it.)

DH started the trend of taking his lunch to work. Everyone ate out. And I do mean EVERYONE. He started declining their invites and bringing his lunch. When they'd give him funny looks, he'd ask them, "How can you afford to eat out all the time?" or "Ugh, don't you get tired of always eating out? I love making this for lunch..." He was bringing in leftovers, making special dishes, and occassionally having sandwiches. By the time he left that office, the majority of the people were bringing in their lunches too.

Stop worrying about what others are doing and do what's best for you. I basically read that you are spending about or at least $170 a week on eating out. What could you do with an extra $170 a week? Have steak night at home? Enjoy a nice bottle of wine with your wife?

It's YOUR life, YOUR paycheck, and YOU get to decide how to spend it. Don't let others bully you into following the crowd and spending money you don't want to.

It's not so much what you make as how much you keep. :)

Just my two cents.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 03:25:57 GMT

$170/ week x 52 weeks = $8,840/ year, which is AT LEAST $10K a year before taxes.

Give yourselves a raise, and stop eating out. Take turns with your family hosting dinner at home. I almost always bring my lunch, mostly leftovers, and when I don't and have to buy lunch, I regret it every time. My food's better. :)

As for all your friends, who knows how they're really doing? They could be living paycheck to paycheck, making minimum payments on their CC's, and Googling "bankruptcy."

eta: Oh, and sit down with your wife and think about what it would be like if one of you couldn't work. Pretend you don't have her income, and start saving it (as a couple.) Learn to live on less. You'll feel a lot more free this way, plus you'll have savings, which is hard to beat.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

FrugalRican — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 03:29:39 GMT

IOBA wrote:

DH started the trend of taking his lunch to work. Everyone ate out. And I do mean EVERYONE. He started declining their invites and bringing his lunch. When they'd give him funny looks, he'd ask them, "How can you afford to eat out all the time?" or "Ugh, don't you get tired of always eating out? I love making this for lunch..." He was bringing in leftovers, making special dishes, and occassionally having sandwiches. By the time he left that office, the majority of the people were bringing in their lunches too.

You probably have a good idea then of how much I get picked on, on a weekly basis because I make my own lunches and bring them every day. And I swear, the people at my job only pick the same three things, greasy, pizza, or chinese and spend $7 a pop EACH for lunch. Holy heck! I always got complimented on how my food smelled and how it looked so good.

My cultural background has me making rice and beans most of the time, as well as my frugal background, but they all seem to think that it's such a chore to make a lunch. I honestly cook just once or twice a week. And I see the savings pile up while I hear everyone else complaining about how broke they are. Granted, I don't make a lot, but I don't have to worry about my income because I know I cook myself meals. Not only that, but it actually helped me to lose weight.

Even something so simple as packing a sandwich for lunch, is a great way to save. And the cost is minimum.

I learned the hard way, that's it not how much you earn that might matter, it's whether you spend more than you earn that truly matters.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 03:33:41 GMT

I found that the trick to bringing leftovers is that when you cook dinner, you first take enough for lunch the next day and stick it in the Crapperware, and put it in the fridge. That helps keep you from pigging out at night, too.

Then in the morning, it's ready to go. No excuses for not packing it in.

It will probably motivate you to up your mad cooking skillz at night, too. :D

When I'm organized (it does happen!) I cook up a ton on weekends, and then I'm set for the week. Not being prepared by planning and shopping and cooking ahead = paying too much money, and for bad food.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

llecs — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 16:09:59 GMT

KeithW wrote:
I guess my biggest problem is the people we associate with all seem to have so much more money than we do. It just gets to where you don't appreciate that you have more than lots of others you don't know and things could be so much worse.

....It also doesn't help that many people tend to exaggerate their own income.

Never ever never compare yourself to others. It's just as bad as comparing your spouse to some other woman. You can't do that and it'll only get you in trouble. You might think the people you are comparing yourself to are well-to-do. They might have that nice home or that nice car. Or you read on FB they they are taking their second vacation this year. But what they aren't sharing is that they have a five- or six-figure debt and are 30 days away from a BK if they lost their job.

It's called status. Status is buying things you can't afford to impress people you don't even like. Every community has them. These are the ones who drive a new car each year and are eager to impress you with their car waxing skills. These are the ones who talk with a high brow when asking about your financial endeavours. And don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with having a 7 or 8-figure home and a parking garage for your car collection, so as long as there isn't any debt behind them. But in comparing yourself with some of your neighbors, your are probably richer than most of them. I bet many of them have a net worth in the negative column.

There's nothing wrong with expanding wealth. If looking to do so, start with your budget first. Create a written budget and commit to it. There's nothing wrong with eating out everyday (except for health issues maybe) but if looking to shave off a thousand or so every year, that's a great place to start. Then go over every single CC and bank statement from last year. Go over it in detail and ask yourself, "Did I need that?". If the answer was no, then resolve never to buy that item or make that purchase ever again.

After creating a budget and resolving to trim future fat from that budget, then analyze if your income meets all obligations from now into the future or if you need to increase your income. I think you should. Everyone puts all of their eggs in one basket and when that basket breaks, their eggs break. But it's all tied up with 1 job for 90% of Americans. I recommend diversifying your income like you would investments. Add a second job. Add a business. Add investments. Get as diversified as possible. Dig your well before you are thirsty. And never be content with your current income level. A ripe tomato will eventually rot. Be in the process of growing and expanding.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

Repo-ed — Mon, 12 Mar 2012 00:07:22 GMT

My base salary is 35k, but with OT and a 13hr/wk pt my AGI for 2011 was 50k. If not for the OT and the 2nd job, I'm sure I would have to cut out some toy buying, as I rarely eat out.

But I have lived here in middle Tn (in one of the weathiest counties in the country) without the OT and the 2nd job, and managed just fine. But I owe a lot of that to mint.com

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

cassembler — Wed, 14 Mar 2012 03:40:38 GMT

llecs wrote:
KeithW wrote:
I guess my biggest problem is the people we associate with all seem to have so much more money than we do. It just gets to where you don't appreciate that you have more than lots of others you don't know and things could be so much worse.

....It also doesn't help that many people tend to exaggerate their own income.

But what they aren't sharing is that they have a five- or six-figure debt and are 30 days away from a BK if they lost their job.
+1

It's called status. Status is buying things you can't afford to impress people you don't even like.
+1

If looking to do so, start with your budget first. Create a written budget and commit to it.
Just seeing cost detail can be a huge eye-opener. Also, start simple and allow for changes.

There's nothing wrong with eating out everyday (except for health issues maybe) ...
You might be the first person ever to say this... <sheds tear from face> As a travelling man, I appreciate it :)

Also, your existing income is fine. Just make it work harder - you're the boss, not your income (well, theoretically).

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

IOBA — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:39:00 GMT

cassembler - I travel a lot....and do eat out some. Lol - but keeping with budget, I have been known to bring food to the hotel (precooked), have been known to bring a toaster over and a hot plate to the room to cook...

I am on day 5 in a hotel and still haven't eaten out. (May change tonight, since I will be traveling right after work...)

OP - don't compare yourself to others! Do what works for you. It takes courage, it takes strength, but in the end, it's for you, for your family.

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

FrugalRican — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:40:45 GMT

IOBA wrote:
cassembler - I travel a lot....and do eat out some. Lol - but keeping with budget, I have been known to bring food to the hotel (precooked), have been known to bring a toaster over and a hot plate to the room to cook...

I am on day 5 in a hotel and still haven't eaten out. (May change tonight, since I will be traveling right after work...)

OP - don't compare yourself to others! Do what works for you. It takes courage, it takes strength, but in the end, it's for you, for your family.

Ever tried crock pot cooking while at a hotel?

Re: Feel Like We are Barely Getting by...

haulingthescoreup — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:44:22 GMT

FrugalRican wrote:
IOBA wrote:
cassembler - I travel a lot....and do eat out some. Lol - but keeping with budget, I have been known to bring food to the hotel (precooked), have been known to bring a toaster over and a hot plate to the room to cook...

I am on day 5 in a hotel and still haven't eaten out. (May change tonight, since I will be traveling right after work...)

OP - don't compare yourself to others! Do what works for you. It takes courage, it takes strength, but in the end, it's for you, for your family.

Ever tried crock pot cooking while at a hotel?

You take a crockpot through airport security??