topic Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship in Relationships and Money

Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

tpatterson2k9 — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 06:59:19 GMT

Seeing as how finances are the number one reason couples get divorced, I was curious about hearing from the myFICO community about what particular financial follies a partner has that would either end the relationship or, at the minimum, erase any thought of marrying that person due to the folly.

I don't know if I'm just being too picky or not, but there is one thing my girlfriend does that, albeit is not the worse thing in the world, indicates to me that she would not know how to control her spending later down the line. As much convincing as it took, I finally got her to sign up for the Amex Blue Cash Everyday card not too long ago because of the awesome rewards (she had no prior rewards CCs). Before she signed up, I told her all about the extra cash back she would have coming her way if she just started putting all the charges she normally makes on her debit card on her Amex card instead. Well, it's been about two months and she still refuses to use her rewards CC. After genuinely and politely asking her why, she explained that she doesn't think she could manage to only charge what she could afford each month. To me, the fact that she doesn't have a general idea of her monthly budget or spending is a big red flag, especially since she should know because of her frequent debit card use. The way I look at this is she's just saying no thanks to free money, but maybe that's just me.

So what are some of the not-so-desirable financial behaviors you've witnessed in a current on ex partner that really made you think twice about getting serious with that person?

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 16:36:45 GMT

Well, something that SHOULD have made me think twice but didn't, lol, was DXH's unwillingness to plan for the future and set goals. He was always convinced that the wolf was at the door, and that we were barely scraping by, so I could never get him to agree to set aside extra money ("Extra money?? We don't have any extra money!!") for retirement or accelerate the mortgage payments. In itself that certainly wasn't a deal-breaker, but it kept us from being able to share dreams in partnership for the future, and it was a sign of an unending gloom and pessimism that wasn't much fun to live with.

The good part of it, though, was that he was (and is) incredibly cheap. :D He was definitely the disciplined one, and I learned from this, especially once I realized that one day I'd be on my own and have to act like a grown-up.

Sorry to hear about your GF. It can be scary making that transition to taking ownership of your finances. Oddly, it can feel easier and less threatening to think that you can't control anything and just spend until there's nothing left than to plan and budget and monitor. Hope she decides to move forward on this.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

beamMEup — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:28:11 GMT

OP - I'll throw out a different perspective.

I don't see not wanting to use a credit card as a terribly destructive behavior - the fact that she is willfully avoiding going into debt is a plus.

Some folks like and do well with credit products; and others avoid them.

I would be much more worried if someone didn't care about the debt they were racking up; or were focused on the "prestige" which they perceived came with their new AmEx card.

IME, I think you've got a winner on your hands.

And when it comes to relationships, you can always be the one to manage and use revolving accounts.

I didn't use CC's for a long time and DH says I was a pretty good catch. At this point, in our house, I manage a good deal of the finances (and they're in pretty darn good shape). DH uses revolvers but it's only for predetermined and prebudgeted items. So we get the rewards, but I basically manage the cards.

And to answer your question, for me it would be high debt-load and blatant consumerism (whether they could afford it or not - it's just a major turnoff to me).

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

tpatterson2k9 — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 04:37:57 GMT

beamMEup wrote:
OP - I'll throw out a different perspective.
I don't see not wanting to use a credit card as a terribly destructive behavior - the fact that she is willfully avoiding going into debt is a plus.

Some folks like and do well with credit products; and others avoid them.

I would be much more worried if someone didn't care about the debt they were racking up; or were focused on the "prestige" which they perceived came with their new AmEx card.
IME, I think you've got a winner on your hands.

And when it comes to relationships, you can always be the one to manage and use revolving accounts.

I didn't use CC's for a long time and DH says I was a pretty good catch. At this point, in our house, I manage a good deal of the finances (and they're in pretty darn good shape). DH uses revolvers but it's only for predetermined and prebudgeted items. So we get the rewards, but I basically manage the cards.

And to answer your question, for me it would be high debt-load and blatant consumerism (whether they could afford it or not - it's just a major turnoff to me).

Thanks for the different perspective. I can understand your point of view, but the other thing that concerns me about her is that she is carrying a $500 balance on another CC at 24% interest and yet she has about $600 in the bank to pay this off (she still lives at home and has no expenses so this wouldn't be a problem for her). When I asked her why she doesn't use that money to pay off the card, her rationale is that she is going to be making more purchases in a month for school when college starts up again so she sees no point in paying off her current balance. It is this behavior combined with her debit card use that makes me uneasy.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

GregB — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:16:35 GMT

It should make you more than just uneasy. With that additional information, it sounds like she doesn't understand finances at all.

I'm afraid this is going to be a big problem.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

beamMEup — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:26:11 GMT

tpatterson2k9 wrote:
Thanks for the different perspective. I can understand your point of view, but the other thing that concerns me about her is that she is carrying a $500 balance on another CC at 24% interest and yet she has about $600 in the bank to pay this off (she still lives at home and has no expenses so this wouldn't be a problem for her). When I asked her why she doesn't use that money to pay off the card, her rationale is that she is going to be making more purchases in a month for school when college starts up again so she sees no point in paying off her current balance. It is this behavior combined with her debit card use that makes me uneasy.

aargh. that can be so frustrating when folks don't get some (what seems to be basic) stuff.

Is she willing to learn? Would she look at how interest accumulates and how cc's and FICO consider carrying a balance if she were taught? Would learning about FICO scoring and tracking her score have an impact?

I know that I learned some of this stuff later than sooner - some folks just have never been taught. It sounds like you've been trying to get the message through - and she's just not that interested?

I'm just still carrying around the thought that so many folks are far more in debt (and eager to be in debt) and clueless about debt than she seems to be - I'm trying to hold on to any possible shred of hope. *Sigh*

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

IOBA — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 00:00:46 GMT

If you can get your hands on one of those cc statements - that shows the interest charges - ask her, "Honey, what would you do with an extra $xx.xx <insert the amount of the interest and fees>per month?"

Then show her how she could be putting that money in HER pocket instead of giving it away....

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

tpatterson2k9 — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 01:12:37 GMT

Thanks beamMEup and IOAB for the input. I wish it were as simple as pointing out how much interest she is paying every month, but I don't think even that would convince her to pay it off. The funny thing is her credit score is only about 20 points lower than mine so it just goes to show that high FICO scores do not necessarily translate into good financial sense. The worst part is that if she is like this now, I can only imagine how she'll be 5 or 10 years from now when she has to start paying on her SLs and start living on her own. I don't think I want to stick around to see that all play out, especially since she has never worked full-time for more than 2 or 3 weeks in her lifetime (more like 15 hours a week) at the age of 22. Sigh...she's a great gal but it's things like this that really make me wonder why I'm still with her. Hopefully she'll get her act together sooner rather than later but I'm not counting on it.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

tpatterson2k9 — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 01:29:53 GMT

Well out of frustration I just asked her if she paid off the CC yet and she declined to answer (which actually answered my question). With that, I told her we can go dutch on everything from now on because she obviously has money to burn if she doesn't have a problem paying ~$20/month in interest. All I get back from her is "that's rude." Maybe it was, but at least this way I'll start saving more of my own money rather than spend it on her just so she can have extra money to pay more interest with. She knows how into finance I am yet she doesn't want to hear any of the advice I can give her. I don't get it.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 01:35:29 GMT

It can be hard growing up, I guess. Especially if you're a bit scared to take on all the hard work that's involved.

Maybe if she hears that she needs to do some maturing for your relationship to work, she might take it to heart. Maybe she'll dismiss you as a jerk and continue in her ways.

Not much that you can do to change other people, unfortunately.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

beamMEup — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:55:23 GMT

So true!

(And OP, I love the "how rude!" reply :smileyvery-happy: - a serious maturity indicator all on its own)

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:45:41 GMT

haulingthescoreup wrote:
It can be hard growing up, I guess. Especially if you're a bit scared to take on all the hard work that's involved.

Maybe if she hears that she needs to do some maturing for your relationship to work, she might take it to heart. Maybe she'll dismiss you as a jerk and continue in her ways.

Not much that you can do to change other people, unfortunately.

Whoops! OP, I hope you realize that I wasn't saying that you're a jerk! :D Because you're not; I think you're being very realistic about things that are important in a relationship.

I was trying to say that that's how some people dismiss others who speak uncomfortable truths.

whew...

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

tpatterson2k9 — Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:35:35 GMT

haulingthescoreup wrote:
haulingthescoreup wrote:
It can be hard growing up, I guess. Especially if you're a bit scared to take on all the hard work that's involved.

Maybe if she hears that she needs to do some maturing for your relationship to work, she might take it to heart. Maybe she'll dismiss you as a jerk and continue in her ways.

Not much that you can do to change other people, unfortunately.
Whoops! OP, I hope you realize that I wasn't saying that you're a jerk! :D Because you're not; I think you're being very realistic about things that are important in a relationship.

I was trying to say that that's how some people dismiss others who speak uncomfortable truths.

whew...

I know what you meant hauling. Her and I actually had a good conversation about this and she sort of put me in a corner. She got on me because I have lost about $20,000 in the stock market this year and she feels that my financial decisions are more destructive than hers (even though she is paying interest on a high APR CC). I was at a loss as to how to defend myself on this one other than that at least I am not giving my money to the banks just so they can benefit their stock holders. Perhaps I need to invest in the CCC that she is paying all this interest to...who knows.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

2011creditfix — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 22:08:56 GMT

Not pretty and it's even more complicated than this, but my husband didn't pay our mortgage for two months and hid it from me. It was only when they called my place of employment that the truth came out. He gave me a very complicated 1/2 truth answer and then after promising to tell me if he couldn't get the payment in on time to let me know, he let it go 30 days 2 more times. He also let our joint credit card go late 2x 30 days. We've always kept separate finances our entire marriage -14 years. I pay all the household bills, cars, insurance, daycare, children's general expenses, etc. He pays the mortgage, cable/cell bills, and occasional groceries/eating out, and his own gas and spending money. He's 100% commission and we're never really sure when the checks will come in.

After this situation, I lost a lot of trust. My credit score went from very good to just good. I am currently contemplating divorce. (Again, much more complicated than lying about money.) I want to make sure that when all is said and done, I'm leaving the relationship in good credit standing and with the ability to purchase my own home for the children and me at a reasonable rate.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

haulingthescoreup — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 22:22:40 GMT

Ouch! :(

I'm all for dividing up responsibilities for payments, if that's what makes sense for a couple, but IMO, any jointly-held credit (mortgages, CC's, etc.) should be reviewed monthly by each person to make sure that everything is OK.

That's the killer about joint credit; it only takes one person to mess up for both people's credit to be damaged, and there's rarely much recourse.

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

ptr2593 — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 03:06:40 GMT

Ok maybe I'm missing something here, but I can't get this thought out of my head after reading the OP.

Your GF was hesitant to get a CC because she was worried she wouldn't be able to control her spending. Now she has a CC and refuses to use it for the same reason.

Isn't refusing to use it a sign that she can control her spending? In my mind, keeping a CC in the sock drawer is equivalent to managing your spending from a practical point of view. Does that make sense?

If you can keep yourself from using a card, why can't you also keep yourself from overcharging?

Seems like she's worried about nothing!

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

haulingthescoreup — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 03:35:39 GMT

Well, I see what you're saying, but to me it's more like buying a Ferrari and refusing to drive it, fearing that you'll take it up to 120 and either crash or get an amazing ticket.

IMO, that's different from buying a high-powered car, but driving it skillfully and responsibly.

And if someone is too terrified to back the Ferrari down the driveway, then it's probably a good thing to leave it in the garage!

OK, I've tortured this analogy farther than necessary. :D

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

barbaralee — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 03:05:38 GMT

This is a good thread. My mistake was that I learned credit from my ex husband. He had an "as long as we can pay the min. we can afford it" mentality. I lived like that for too long. Then we divorced and I had to really learn how to utilize credit. I took everything that I learned to heart and it very much became a way of living for me. I told myself "Never again will you be in a financial mess due to your own follies" and I try hard to stand by my "Never Agains".

Enter boyfriend.

SO is very frugal minded. He is of the school "only charge what you can afford". COMPLETE oppsote of Ex. By the time SO came into the picture I had already settled into my current financial routine, and his was surprisingly similar to mine.

There was one thing: My SO is the type of person who if he believes it is good advice he will follow it down to the letter. Years ago his mother got him a $500 Cap1 card and told him to run all of his charges on it to build credit. So he was literally maxing out his cc every month and paying it off. When I realized what he was doing I held my tongue. We were early in the relationship, and I didn't feel it was my place. After a year I couldn't help myself and one day when he was paying off his card I burst out "Stop doing that!!"

That started a discussion on utilization. He contemplated what I told him. My heart was beating. I was thinking I was in "mind your own finances" territory. Finally he said "That makes sense." He googled articles. Read some forum posts. Said he didn't know why it hadn't occur to him before. From that day on he utilized no more than 30% on that measly little $500 card. He has since upgraded to USAA with a reasonable credit limit, but he is still a stickler for the utilization rule. :smileyvery-happy:

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

gsxr1 — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:05:46 GMT

I understand your side of the coin, free money is free money... no brainer, right? But, I also understand her side. And, from what you wrote, I dont understand how you think she doesnt have a general idea of her monthly budget or spending when you said yourself that she doesnt think she could manage to only charge on the CC what she could afford each month.

So, lets think about this, by her knowing what she could afford each month literally means that she does, at the very least, have a general idea of her monthly budget. And you say that by her not using the rewards card, that indicates to you that she wouldnt know how to control her spending later down the line? How do you equate the two? By her saying she doesnt want to use the CC because she thinks she may charge more than she could afford monthly clearly indicates she IS in control of her spending, NOW.

So why wouldnt she be in control in the future if she's limiting herself now? And obviously she has above average credit in the first place to be approved for an Amex card, so she has managed to keep her finances and credit use in check up until the point of meeting you, correct?! It sounds to me as though she's doing an alright job as it is and you shouldnt be so critical. If not using a CC-even one that gives her a cash bonus (and probably a small one at that)- is her way of controlling her spending, then so be it. In her mind, the risk of overspending and potentially paying fees and interest doesnt outweigh the reward of the small cash bonus.

Obviously I dont know you two and there may be other factors at play here that readers dont know about you two, but from what you've said in your post here is my opinion: There are plenty of worse things in life, so, my opinion- hopefully you've laid this argument to rest with your GF, because from what you've said, she doesnt deserve to be judged so harshly over something so trivial. Especially when you two arent married and have no joint financial standards that you've agreed to uphold with each other.

Now when you guys are married and you find out that she got a CC and didnt tell you about it because you get a call from a collection company one day, and she's been having the monthly statement mailed to her parents house or to her work address so you dont find out that she's maxed it out, THEN i'd say you definitely have a valid reason to be critical, harsh, and over-judgemental.

:) (mod edit)

So, i just read the rest of the posts and all the additonal info. you gave about your GF and her other CC, etc. And i must say that she does sound immature and a tad irresponsible....lol ....and it may do her some good to listen to your advice or at the very least, consider it. However, I still stand by my opinion from what we all knew from the original post. There are worse things in life, and you both sound young and just under experienced (maybe her moreso than you). It'll work itself out if you're meant to be.

edit to add: I removed your first name. :) We try to discourage posting any personally identifiable info, including names, even if they're just first names. You can do so, of course, but in case you decide that you'd rather not have it out there, I took it out for now. --hauling

Re: Financial Follies that Break the Relationship

tpatterson2k9 — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 09:00:24 GMT

Yes, it is a number of behaviors I have seen her display that make me worried about her financial contribution or the lack thereof in a long-term relationship. We are still together now as we work to finish up college. The thing is, she wants to be a dentist which entails taking on hefty student loans, so I am curious to see how she handles that situation when it comes along. I don't plan on committing to a very serious relationship until I have established a career for myself, so maybe by the time I get that going she will have come around to avoiding interest and using her money wisely. One can only hope...