topic Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC in Credit Cards

Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 05:59:59 GMT

I was wondering if I might be able to get some input from all you people with rich experience in FICO stuff. Also let me say, I have already learned so much from reading this forum - thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!

My TU FICO is 747 and EQ FICO is 777. Both pulled from MyFICO on 04/26. I get Discover preapprovals in the mail and I have a Wells Fargo preapproval and I see preapproved messages for WF online as well (I bank with them).

Existing Accounts and hard pulls:
I applied for a Macy's card in 12/11 and was approved ($600 CL) but no Amex was sent. I do not see the Macy's HP on either EQ or TU. I moved last year and the new electric company denied me and made me give them a deposit. A Wells Fargo HP is listed on TU from 08/11, when I opened bank accounts with them. No inquiries listed on EQ (and only the one on TU).

I have only one CC, a Cap1 card with $300 CL but I understand they pretty much do not do consumer-initiated CLIs. I want a bigger CL, so I was thinking of going with either the pre-approvals from Wells Fargo or Discover that I keep getting.

Both EQ and TU reports list high utilization of over 30%, a mere $92 really. I actually pay twice a month on that account and they caught that on a low utilization day. I can, of course, stop using it altogether and bring the utilization down to near zero.

I have a ten year old closed CC account showing on EQ but not TU. I would think it would drop off EQ sometime soon as well (meaning EQ score would go down soon?) TU listed that I had a short credit history (2 AAoA vs 6 years on EQ).

I also wanted to see if I might get a car loan sometime in July or August (I've never had a loan before). That's why I wanted to apply for a credit card as early as possible to put some time in between the credit card and a possible car loan app.

Any advice on whether I should pull the trigger on either Wells Fargo or Discover? Good chance of approval? And if that might effectively prevent me from getting a loan later in the summer? Can only one happen easily?

I would appreciate any advice and again, thank you for sharing all your expertise!

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

snowangel — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 06:08:36 GMT

How long have you had the Cap 1 card for?

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:16:04 GMT

Cap1 was from 2007. Just under 5 years. No CLI all these years but I used to be a poor grad student.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

RyVision — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:55:56 GMT

Mailak;

Even though I have no love loss for WF, they will no doubt be more "approving" than Discover if you have decent deposits with them and a good history (checking, savings, for some time with no issues). You may not have the credit file needed to get a good CL with Discover. Just my 2 cents as I have experience with both, WF through parents and myself for several years.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:27:16 GMT

Thans, for your reply RyVision. My account with WF is not a year old yet but I have a whole lot deposited in checking and savings. I was hoping that would count for somethign in their approval process. They'll greatly upset me if they keep all that money of mine and don't approve me but that is often how it is. I can't believe they ran a credit check for me to deposit my money with them (I'm sure it was listed somewhere in the reams of terms and conditions, of course.)

I'm not just wondering if I should try as-is or take my utilization to nil and then wait till it is reflected in my score. That might take another 6 weeks for the cycle to complete though.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

RyVision — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:23:58 GMT

Mailak wrote:
Thans, for your reply RyVision. My account with WF is not a year old yet but I have a whole lot deposited in checking and savings. I was hoping that would count for somethign in their approval process. They'll greatly upset me if they keep all that money of mine and don't approve me but that is often how it is. I can't believe they ran a credit check for me to deposit my money with them (I'm sure it was listed somewhere in the reams of terms and conditions, of course.)

I'm not just wondering if I should try as-is or take my utilization to nil and then wait till it is reflected in my score. That might take another 6 weeks for the cycle to complete though.

If you have over 10k in savings and checking (combined, even a constant 5k would be enough for this tactic), ask a teller who you'd speak with about a CC (if they try to hand you a form to fill out, tell them you were hoping to speak to someone that handles CC accounts or loans). They (the teller) should point you to the right person, then ask that person (usually they have their own area) about your chances of approval with the info you know about your CR and score since you have accounts with them. They will probably give you an indication of what you could possibly expect before doing an HP. YMMV however.

I have to add, WF can be a stickler, the car loan in a couple months I can't really comment on, our WF banks are no doubt different areas lol. If you do business with them though, they are often fairly decent, compared to a few others anyway. Not generous mind you, just decent.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 19:13:36 GMT

Yes, I have nearly 30k with them, combined. I think I'd rather try to get a CC than a loan down the road but that's certainly something I would want to try later.

It's good to get your input. I was starting to lean the other way round - to try Discover since I get more preapprovals from them and since I surmised WF is hard to get.

Maybe I should just get the utilization down to zero. It's hard having a total balance under $30 :(

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

RyVision — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 19:54:26 GMT

Mailak wrote:
Yes, I have nearly 30k with them, combined. I think I'd rather try to get a CC than a loan down the road but that's certainly something I would want to try later.

It's good to get your input. I was starting to lean the other way round - to try Discover since I get more preapprovals from them and since I surmised WF is hard to get.

Maybe I should just get the utilization down to zero. It's hard having a total balance under $30 :(

Ah, that helps. Pay off Cap 1 through your online account (pay them 10% over the balance, that should give you a 0 balance update even if there's interest not posting), call them after it posts and request "an off cycle update" for your account to the credit bureaus (they can do at least that for you after having them for 5 years).

After that takes place (you'll spot it if you check here or some other free services online). Then you can go in and talk to WF, they shouldn't hesitate to send you to a supervisor about a CC who should be happy to speak with you about all the info and possible CL you might get (considering you have 30k with them). Though they can not promise anything without a hard pull, they SHOULD be able to do a soft for you, or you can always check into other banking options :smileywink:

Do NOT let them talk you into investing with their financial advisors or CFPs however (Wells Fargo Financial), unless you're already with them, which you're not, or you'd already have one of their cards.

With your deposits (if that's a consistent balance) and your clean history and scores, they should have little problem granting you a 5k CL. Just treat it like gold because WF can be ..... less than golden.

Here's a link to their current CC offers. Pick the one you like most (read about it and it's terms) and tell the person you speak with that that's the one you're curious about. (you may have to right click and open in a new window).

https://www.wellsfargo.com/credit_cards/

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:25:22 GMT

Thanks for the additional guidance! I'll pay it off though apparently that is harder than it seems. I put in another payment and suddenly another scheduled charge appeared on the card. Because my CL is so small, even small dollar amounts are over 10% utilization. Do multiple payments count negatively?

I was also wondering what I should tell Cap1 if they ask why I wanted an off cycle update. Do I just say I want an updated credit history so that I can discuss credit options?

While WF has not had 30k all year, it consisently builds twice a month. I believe all history is clean. There's nothing on EQ and TU. I remember missing a Verizon payment 4-5 years ago out of sheer forgetfulness but insofar as the credit accounts go, both reports show zero late payments. I've been careful not to try to apply for credit all these years since I knew nobody would give it to me anyway.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Open123 — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:31:56 GMT

In my estimation, you're better off with Discover.

I think Discover is a more leniant than Wells when it comes to approval. Discover has an infinitely superior rewards program. Wells Fargo has one of the least compelling rewards programs of any bank. Aside from their secured card or financing terms, I see no reason to apply for a Wells Fargo card that seems bereft of rewards when compared to their competitors.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

RyVision — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:20:03 GMT

Open123 wrote:
In my estimation, you're better off with Discover.

I think Discover is a more leniant than Wells when it comes to approval. Discover has an infinitely superior rewards program. Wells Fargo has one of the least compelling rewards programs of any bank. Aside from their secured card or financing terms, I see no reason to apply for a Wells Fargo card that seems bereft of rewards when compared to their competitors.

I should have explained if I had to choose between the two cards, I would really prefer Discover More over WF, by a huge margin. I mentioned what I did regarding WF due to the relationship with them being established. Would I really use their card if I got it, probably not, but it would build history. I am not a huge fan of WF, I don't bank with them myself at all anymore.

Discover More is a much better card. Open123 is spot on about that. It's why I advised speaking with a supervisor at WF about what they MAY give you on a soft considering your a customer with decent deposits amounts and few other accounts before letting them do a HP for an application. You could talk to WF and find out what they'd offer but still apply for Discover More, 2 inq's won't hurt you, nor would 2 new accounts really (you have to start with something). If WF can't be rather sure they'd give you at least 3k to start (checking a SOFT pull if anything at the most), I'd probably skip them and go with Discover. If Discover didn't give you over 2k to start, you could always go back to WF and probably still get the 3k or more if you wanted but the 2 accounts will lower your AAoA (but any 2 accounts you get would age together so it's not all bad).

Depending on your location, there's a very good chance Discover will pull EQ if you apply, which is great for your AAoA showing and they will love your score there etc, WF may stick with TU for you, hard to say. Discover checked my TU last april then in Dec checked EQ.

The only issue I can spot is you have few accounts and the one I know of is a very low limit (Cap 1) and that could work against you. The thing WF has in their favor is they can see you're not in need of credit or having issues (people in that type of situation seldom have 3k in the bank, let alone 30k).

I also don't know what your main objective is, a higher initial CL or low interest and\or rewards. WF may offer you a higher initial CL because of reasons above but no real perks otherwise. Where as Discover More will probably start you with a lower CL than WF but with much better rewards (interest could be higher however).

Hope that helps a bit.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

clojure — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:16:52 GMT

When I hear "preapproval," my mind atuomatically translates it to "spam." It doesn't mean anything when it comes down to actually being approved. I must've gotten 4 more preapprovals from Discover after they denied me a few months ago when I applied through, you guessed it, a preapproval.

As far as rewards go, Discover More is certainly nice for their 5% categories when you use them, but the minimum cash back isn't great. Chase Freedom would be the card to look at, in my opinion.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

RyVision — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:53:23 GMT

clojure wrote:
When I hear "preapproval," my mind atuomatically translates it to "spam." It doesn't mean anything when it comes down to actually being approved. I must've gotten 4 more preapprovals from Discover after they denied me a few months ago when I applied through, you guessed it, a preapproval.

As far as rewards go, Discover More is certainly nice for their 5% categories when you use them, but the minimum cash back isn't great. Chase Freedom would be the card to look at, in my opinion.

Chase would beat the DM, but Mailak likely has a better chance at Discover More than anything with Chase from the info given IMHO.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Open123 — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:06:59 GMT

RyVision wrote:
clojure wrote:
When I hear "preapproval," my mind atuomatically translates it to "spam." It doesn't mean anything when it comes down to actually being approved. I must've gotten 4 more preapprovals from Discover after they denied me a few months ago when I applied through, you guessed it, a preapproval.

As far as rewards go, Discover More is certainly nice for their 5% categories when you use them, but the minimum cash back isn't great. Chase Freedom would be the card to look at, in my opinion.

Chase would beat the DM, but Mailak likely has a better chance at Discover More than anything with Chase from the info given IMHO.

Yeah, Freedom + Chase checking is the way to go, especially for cash rewards.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:29:27 GMT

clojure - Yes, I do understand preapprovals mean nothing, which is why I never applied for any cards with them. I just used them as an indication that I'm meeting some unspecified minimum criteria, which is likely a lot stricter when evaluating the real application.

RyVision and Open123 - My main intent at this time is really to have a decent CL rather than low interest rates or rewards. Unless part of a strategy to main some sort of a balance, I intend to PIF, so the rate doesn't seem as important right now. I don't remember when last I was not paying off in full. Rewards may be good but since I haven't really had a major card with a good rewards program, I haven't yet gotten used to collecting points and rewards. And, I think the question really is what I will be approved for rather than what I want (fancy program, etc.).

My first concern is to first get a card that allows me to pay some larger amounts using a CC and in the process also start building a decent credit history. Then once I have that, I can try getting cards with better interest rates and rewards programs.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:54:00 GMT

RyVision - I'm in AZ but my WF account was a Wachovia from DC, so it says DC rules apply. I'm not sure if that affects which report they pull.

Also, I was wondering if after talking with them, essentially it's a computer program which makes the decision i.e. does it really matter if I apply in a branch or online? And how quick is it updated that I applied? I could try WF as well as Discover or any other in quick succession, I suppose, if I need to and it doesn't hurt me too much.

I very cautiously applied for the Macy's account last year to test the waters with a department charge card. I got that but at the same time they say they consider you for Amex, which I suppose rejected me (I get it - they're very selective). I can close that whenever I want after I have another CC, to bring down total number of accounts, if needed. As it is,they don't report my $600 CL (I saw it in the statement), so it doesn't help me in utilization but at least, for now, it shows somebody gave me some credit.

I used to have CCs 10 years ago (an Amex optima, an ATT with $4k CL) but closed them when I was leaving the country for some years.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

RyVision — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 22:17:44 GMT

Mailak wrote:
RyVision - I'm in AZ but my WF account was a Wachovia from DC, so it says DC rules apply. I'm not sure if that affects which report they pull.

Also, I was wondering if after talking with them, essentially it's a computer program which makes the decision i.e. does it really matter if I apply in a branch or online? And how quick is it updated that I applied? I could try WF as well as Discover or any other in quick succession, I suppose, if I need to and it doesn't hurt me too much.

I very cautiously applied for the Macy's account last year to test the waters with a department charge card. I can close that whenever I want after I have another CC, to bring down total number of accounts, if needed. As it is,they don't report my $600 CL (I saw it in the statement), so it doesn't help me in utilization but at least, for now, it shows somebody gave me some credit.

When I said "speak with" I did mean an actual person at a branch, one you go into frequently. Your money is there, not at Wachovia unless I'm mistaken. If they can't talk to you as a human being and give you some insight without a HP, I'd find another place to store my cash, as another poster mentioned, a good local CU (nearly any of them are friendlier than a big bank in most cases).

If you reside, are a legal resident of AZ, those laws very much do apply to you and your account, no matter what the bank might say lol. Like I mentioned, I'm not a fan of WF and there are a few reasons why. If you can't speak to someone at your local branch, that's above a teller, about a loan product without them saying "well I can submit and application for you" and treating you like a valued customer, it's time to look elsewhere. They SHOULD say something along the line of "we can probably figure out an approximation without doing a hard pull of your report" and speak with you at their desk like your business MEANS something to them to at least some degree. Anyone can "submit an application" and get the results, that's not why you walk into the branch, let alone allow them to hold onto your cash.

Frankly, if they want to treat you like a Wachovia Step Child, you might want to seriously look at other financial institutions (like credit unions). A lot of banks that take over other banks and their accounts don't treat the "step children" that well.

We can still walk into our area WF and wait no longer than 5 minutes to speak with a "personal banker" in their office area privately. My DM still has a CC and HELOC there (rate's just too low to close those), but they know she pulled 6 figures out from under them after they mishandled investments.

As I said, go in, speak to someone with some authority (not just a teller) and politely ask about the product you're interested in (the CC) and their opinion based on a SOFT pull only. Thirty grand is still 30,000.00 in their bank and it means something. Even if you have to remind them of it. If the person you speak with says "I really can't tell you anything without doing a hard pull" you need to say "ah ok, thanks for your time, I spose I could inquire with a CU a friend told me to check with" and I bet they change their lazy tune REAL fast. :smileywink:

People need to remember, don't treat these banks like you work for them, when you're in a good position and take care of your obligations, THEY work for YOU or fire them and move on.

{EDIT]: If you had an AMEX, you need to get an AMEX Zync and get it backdated as well, that's a new twist to everything really.

[EDIT 2]: Frankly, I'd probably want to get the AMEX Zync and get it backdated and wait until it updated on my reports as backdated THEN go for Discover or something. It would likely increase your AAoA quite a bit across all reports.

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 23:59:36 GMT

Hehe, I have a hard time knowing where my money is. It's a Wachovia account opened in DC. Now I'm in AZ and the account runs under the banner of WF legacy Wachovia account and it does say DC terms apply. This makes me think the account still belongs to the DC branch but I don't really think which branch matters - it's a WF account now.

Okay, so, perhaps Discover after Amex. But did you also mean try Amex Zync before WF? I'm not a fan of WF or anything - I'm just hoping my existing relationship and deposits count for something in their decision process. If they give it to me, fine. Otherwise, I'm not married to WF. I can pull my money from them anytime they upset me (not giving me a CC when I keep 30k with them will likely upset me). I'll happily seek any other CC if I knew that there was a better chance of approval and decent CL.

I didn't get the Macy's Amex card when I applied for the Macy's account. Doesn't that mean I'm likely not going to get Amex if I apply separately? (Maybe the flavor of Amex might have an effect).

Btw, thanks everybody for chiming in and providing me with your opinion!

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

RyVision — Sun, 29 Apr 2012 00:02:07 GMT

Mailak wrote:
Hehe, I have a hard time knowing where my money is. It's a Wachovia account opened in DC. Now I'm in AZ and the account runs under the banner of WF legacy Wachovia account and it does say DC terms apply. This makes me think the account still belongs to the DC branch but I don't really think it matters much.

Okay, so, perhaps Discover after Amex. But did you also mean try Amex Zync before WF? I'm not a fan of WF or anything - I'm just hoping my existing relationship and deposits count for something in their decision process. If they give it to me, fine. Otherwise, I'm not married to WF. I can pull my money from them anytime they upset me (not giving me a CC when I keep 30k with them will likely upset me). I'll happily seek any other CC if I knew that there was a better chance of approval and decent CL.

I didn't get the Macy's Amex card when I applied for the Macy's account. Doesn't that mean I'm likely not going to get Amex if I apply separately? (Maybe the flavor of Amex might have an effect).

Btw, thanks everybody for chiming in and providing me with your opinion!

I'd get Zync first (easiest to get for one) considering you're already a member with AMEX (if you had a true AMEX account years ago, which I'm sure Optima was). The Macy AMEX isn't a true "AMEX" I don't believe, it's not issued by AMEX (Centurion Bank) that I know of in other words (others will correct me if I'm wrong there, believe me LOL). Macy's shouldn't have any effect on your approval chances for Zync really, unless it had a late or something, it may have put you back in AMEX's system though and you might already have offers in that system, dunno.

The reason I'd go for Zync first is once it backdated to your original Member Since date, it would no longer be seen as a totally new account (the inq would be at least on EX though), it would be an older account than your Cap 1 or anything younger than your original AMEX was (IF you have that old AMEX card or a statement with the account number, even a cancelled check with the acct number, you're ahead of the backdating game). It will add to your AAoA even though it will only show payment history from when you get the new card after it's backdated. Permanent membership is one of the best perks AMEX offers, no other card company does or can do it (let you keep your original membership date). That's why I tell younger people to get any true AMEX they can as early as possible, it keeps your credit history when other accounts allow it to fall off. Actually, I'm surprised your old AMEX isn't still showing up on any of your reports, mine did since 1989.

Discover and whoever else you apply for will see the backdated AMEX as an account that's proves you had credit long before your more recent accounts and that is very much in your favor (they know it's new, but it's when you actually first got AMEX that matters).

The part about you still being under Wachovia (Legacy) concerns me if WF pulled your CR in 2011 for anything other than a CC when you went to the branch in AZ. A soft pull I'd understand, a HP, I don't see the logic. According to them, you were "grandfathered in" under Wachovia and still are (yes DC rules apply to that account but so do AZ's now). You are in fact, from what you say, a "red-headed step child" to WF.

You should be an instant approval for Zync with your scores and clean reports. Probably Green as well, though the fee is much higher than Zync's 25 a year, I think Green is around 100 a year, I don't remember off hand (it's changed since I had it years ago).

If you check AMEX's site, there's a place to check to see if you have any offers from them, I had none when I applied and was instantly approved for a NPSL Zync last Sept. Then backdated to 1989 :smileyhappy:

Re: Applying for Wells Fargo or Discover CC

Mailak — Sun, 29 Apr 2012 01:28:10 GMT

Apparently, it was Wachovia who pulled it in DC in August 2011 when I was opening an account with them. TU lists it as "Wells Fargo Bank/Wb" but the date matches my account opening in DC. When Wachovia was taken over by WF (it happened on different dates in different states), Wachovia customers kept their old account types even after their accounts were merged into WF. So, I have the same Wachovia perks at WF I had before even though they are not available to new WF customers. It's a legacy account type that is not available to new customers.

I'm pretty sure I do not have old Amex statements. It is listed as "American Express Optima(R) Credit Card for Students" in my e-mails from Amex from ten years ago. It was later changed to "Blue for Students" and I have a partial number in my email but no full number. My payment receipts also have only payment confirmation numbers. I could possibly try to recall that number as I used to have it hardcoded in my brain. But shouldn't they be able to pull it using a SSN? I read somewhere on this site that closed accounts show for 10 years. It'll be 10 years for me soon (I don't remember which month I might have closed that account). I also saw in my e-mail that I used to have a third card, an HSBC Visa, but that also doesn't show up on reports. Only my old AT&T Universal shows up on EQ.

Is it worth trying with Amex Zync if I can't find the card number? I don't mind the annual fees right now. I already pay Cap1 $59 for their measly $300 CL :-( I could wait till my payment shows and just pull the trigger on Zync and see what happens.

Edit 1:

I got a full amex number from an e-mail. Gosh - some merchant put the full number in e-mail in plain text! It's a different number than what I saw from the partials but I'm pretty sure the numbers did change when cards were replaced. This is an older number from before 2000.

Edit 2: Okay, I can't be sure that is a permanent number. I used to heavily utilize Amex's private payments (I think that's what it was called) which generated temporary one-time-use numbers, for use on the internet.