topic Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders in Understanding FICO® Scoring

FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

anderson2624 — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 03:49:41 GMT

Had to be a trouble maker but here is a fact.

Over the last few years my personal FICO has ranged 763 to almost 800 UNLESS it was run by a bank or other lending instuitution. When they run it it has been between 650 and 713.

Recently , ON THE SAME DAY it was run by Merryl Lynch , I ran my credit.

My low 763. Merryl Lynch exactly 713

Merryl Lynch will base their loan decision... interest rate, fees and approval based upon 713. They told me that what I run does not count. They have something "more" accurate???

If the lender can use a different formula to benefit their own institution how is that fair?

OK everyone reading this tell me how many versions of Fico are out there and who is using what version

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

AndySoCal — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 04:14:19 GMT

Mortgage lenders pull FICO scores. The first question is where are you pulling your credit scores from? There a very places besides this site the will give you a FICO score. The lender for a mortgage will you your middle score IE not the highest or the loweest of the three scores. So if your middle score is from Experian and you pull Equifax form here you would see a difference.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

Shogun — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 04:45:50 GMT

Well, my mortgage was pulled by my bank and they pulled my FICO scores. So yes they are used by lenders. There are so many FAKOs out there that it gets confusing, and yes there are different FICO scores.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

anderson2624 — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:52:41 GMT

ANDY

What I am expressing is that if I obtained a score from myFico or several (or each) of the reporting credit bureaus I would have 3 scores... 775 763... 750. That is what I have done.

When ANY mortgage lender runs a credit inquiry from the exact same sources they will report back numbers like 713... 680... 735.

Its is a matter of the formula. Any lender can establish criteria to give them the results they require for their best interest.

THAT IS WHAT I THINK but I am seeking the truth

The FICO "we" as consumers desire to use as evidence of our credit worthyness and the numbers "we" purchase are worthless if some other party can establish a different formula which provides different results.

We should be able to purchase the same FICO score system used by Wells Fargo, Bank of America / Merryl Lynch

Note... this difference happened to me with 2 internet lenders, wells fargo, merrill lynch and even a little neighborhood bank. Everyone managed to produce the low score almost 50 points below what was available to me as a purchased item.

This low score has always been within the acceptable range for FnMae but each lender tried (some won) to raise the rate by 1/8th to 1/4. Chump change but multiply that by 10,000+.

5 lenders in a row... some big... some med and one small. Each was able to produce a low FICO.

PLEASE EXPLAIN how a FICO score I can purchase has any usefullness when dealing with a lender, car dealers (I had one of those and they backed off), insurance companies or even employers if they can control the results.

Fair Issacs might be useful, I have doubts, but on the assumption it is useful there must be honesty but most important consistency.

Some real smart attorney should start a class action suit. Imagine lenders hiding behind FICO when their true intent violated civil rights and associated laws. We can end red lining neighborhoods... not loaning to Hondurans and the handicapped... prevent gay people from getting loans.. your how old? No way we will make a 30 year loan... see your FICO score! Its only 2... yes we know Expierian, Transunion, Equifax state 800. Sorry we ran it and it is 2 not 800.

Off the subject... but I found one small bank making 2 million dollars NET a month by NOT making loans. They made most of it by charging processing and appraisal fees. As with most banks "they" own the appraisal management company and the UNDERWRITER. Why struggle and make loans when we make 2 million PROFIT a month turning people down said an insider. No federal oversight... no bad loans... no buybacks... just income.

Edited to remove a bad script - llecs, myFICO moderator

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

bettercreditguy1 — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:51:21 GMT

There are currently 49 different Fico Scores available. AS a consumer, we are able to purchase a couple of them. They have Fico scores for the Auto, Home, and Insurance industries to name some. When a mortage lender pulls your score, they will almost always be lower than the Fico Score pulled here as they us a Mortage Enhanced Fico Score.So, if it is a home mortage you are shooting for, get your FAKO scores as high as possible. Although there is no direct correlation between them, relatively speaking, the higher your visible scores at Kredit Karma, Quizzle, Sesame, etc. the better your Credit Reports will look on the real end.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

llecs — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:29:15 GMT

OP, I'll add that if you pulled any scores from the credit reporting agencies, then know that none of the scores offered are FICO scores. Ignore them. Was that your source?

IME of myself and thousands of others on here, if you pulled your EQ FICO from myFICO.com on the exact same day as your mortgage lender, your two scores will exactly match. If you purchased a score from a 3rd-party like freecreditscore.com or even from Equifax.com, then know that you are pushed a FAKO score, not a FICO.

If you pulled your TU FICO on myFICO.com as your lender on the same day, the two scores may or may not match. Why? The two versions are different. While some mortgage lenders do use the same version as on here, most use a newer version. Other than your lender and myFICO, you cannot buy a TU FICO from anywhere. If you bought it from another source like TransUnion.com, then you are not comparing a FICO.

If you pulled an EX FICO from a source like Experian.com or elsewhere, then you don't have a FICO at all. Experian blocked consumer access to your own FICO a few years ago and you cannot buy it from anywhere. Other sites will sell an EX score, but it isn't a FICO and lenders don't use it.

I suspect you pulled a non-FICO and are trying to compare it to a FICO.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

GregB — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:45:59 GMT

I would agree that the OP is mixing FAKO and FICO scores. Hard to find any actual facts in the post.

The scores used for all normal mortgage applications are:

EQ Beacon 5 - The EQ FICO you get here.

TU FICO Risk Score, Classic 04 - One version later than the TU FICO you get here.

EX Fair Issac v2 FICO - The one you could get here before EX removed it in 2008 or so.

One thing I might add is that EQ does not seem to have the EQ FICO products buried so deeply on their website anymore. It does seem easier to find but you still have to know to look for a FICO score instead of their non-FICO scores.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

ccnewcc — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 23:13:20 GMT

All the FAKOs and FICOs are a bit confusing becuase soo many can be purchased and every lender uses something different.

I would like to add that I think waaaayyy tooo much emphasis is focused on the actual numerical 3 digit number itslef.

If your prospective mortgage lender claims you have a lower than expected FICO score, couldn't you recon? Couldn't you say to them to look at your CR history?

"I got 25 years of CR history, an AAoA of 12.5 yrs, I have never been late, I don't have any collections, CO, or negatives, I have a good CLs and proven myself with a great credit mix and the abliity to pay off loans earlier than the term of the loans. I think you should give me a better rate becuase I am A paper based on my CR and not some arbitray numerical scoring model."

That might be something you'd say.

There seems to be way to much credit given to a FICO score.

ETA: We see this all the time on here. Where ppl post a thread saying something like "I need 3 more points added to my FICO before I close, what should I do?" Way too much emphasis on the number, IMO.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

bettercreditguy1 — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 03:49:26 GMT

Yes, I have been on both sides of the fence. My experience is that the larger the bank the more they are number based. A smaller community bank or credit union knows more about YOU, your situation, and your reputation. One difference being, your local lender may charge a bit more. IMO, it is worth it's weight in gold. Several years ago, I went through a divorce, many banks would not lend me money for a new car because of DTI including child support obligations. One long time banking Officer did. I was forever greatful and paid the loan off four months early and every payment a week ahead to make him look good to the Board of Directors. The favor, priceless.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

Shogun — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:09:41 GMT

I know it's all confusing, but I think it's meant to be confusing. The less you know the better is their general stand on it. Just keep your reports clean and there really won't be an issue.

BTW,, to the OP.. You're font size is just irritating. Just so you know. :)

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

anderson2624 — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 22:43:38 GMT

Just keep your reports clean and there really won't be an issue.

You just expressed a high level of ignorance. I will continue to state that the FICO score that you work so hard to obtain by meeting every obligation is 50 points higher that the Fico score that a lender will use to determine you are a good credit risk BECAUSE they have the ability to LOWER you score by changing the formula. If they know, as a fact you have a 760 score and base their interest rate on that at say 4% but know that they can change the formula to reflect 710 and get 4.2 they will go for 4.2. Car dealers were famous for doing that but it is standard operating proceedure in the real estate finance process,

They hook you by saying "our best rate is 760" YOU LOOK: Your Ficos are 760, 765 and 780. You allow a hard credit check and they come back and say your mid score is 720 and they have a document from all 3 bureaus.

YOU SAY THAT BIG FONTS ARE ANNOYING! HOW ABOUT ALL CAPS.

OK: old people can not see as well as smarter young people but they have the ability to use knowledge based upon previous situations to assist.

Its the message not the font nor all caps. If YOU have no interest in learning or the message... prefering to dwell on your personal font/all caps issue a reader can conclude your comments of little value. You comment

Just keep your reports clean and there really won't be an issue. YOU KNOW THAT IS NOT TRUE

why did you post as a valued member?

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

anderson2624 — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 22:44:13 GMT

Also done Internet, and several large banks. No difference in how the BANKS fico came out Always much lower that that available to the consumer. 2000, 2004, 2008, 2010, 2011 AND 2012. PREVIOUS YEARS: No major empathis on FICO but generally some issues, just prior to or at signing of documents of an interest bump.

Small bank. 19 branches. 30 loan officers. Each paid $100.00 for taking a loan app. Advertises community bank... competitive rates... fast close. Collects $600.00 for appraisal. Owns but really does not own appraisal management company. Pays appraiser $100.00 of $600.00 fee. Typical Appraiser does 40 appraisals a month thus earns around $50,000 a year. Overflow from the least expensive "independent" appraiser. Typically someone new in the biz. $400 + a processing fee is profit Just for easy numbers PER APPLICATION $500.00 profit x minium 20 apps a month PER LOAN OFFICER x 30 loan officers X 12 MONTHS =$3,600,000 a year profit from loan applications. This particular small bank also has an IN HOUSE underwriter. They loan based upon how much money they have available and kill all other loans. They do not have enough money to fund 600 loans a month so they reject 550 loans BECAUSE FnMae allows them to be MORE restrictive. LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL but they made me a PORTFOLIO loan on my terms because I exposed their fraud.

BIG BANK SMALL BANK does not matter.

The subject was The FICO SCORE we purchase is always higher than the FICO score the Bank can create yet the information comes from the same source. NO COMMENTS HOW THAT IS POSSIBLE YET.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

anderson2624 — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 22:49:04 GMT

INTELLIGENT RESPONCE

Years ago I called FICO. How you do that? Its a secret. Bank of America... etc. No disclosure as to what FICO formula they use. No disclosure that they have more stringent requirements than that PUBLISHED on the FnMae site. Its a secret.

A few days ago I told Merryl Lynch Wealth Management that I would accept their :lies" about FnMae guidelines were changed, their lies about my Debt to Income ration being 49/51 when it is 20/80 and their need to get 4.1 APR on a 70/30 conforming loan even though they were offering at that time 3.5050 APR.

All they had to do was provide me with the Merryl Lynch " for FICO and the mandatory written real estate loan guidelines. SORRY that is a secret.

As before I will follow up because they do not want Federal Oversight. My loan will fund.

An "typical" borrower would assume the bank is honest and correct and the Bank wants to make loans. Their profit center is, in part, the appraisal fee (they keep most of it) and will not inform the client how much they paid the appraiser but much more important they can earn more money gambling in the market while paying base overhead by turning down loans.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

anderson2624 — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 22:51:57 GMT

I am simple.

I get 3 scores based upon the bureaus. 780, 760, 800. Lender orders report from same institutions and gets a different score same day FIFTY points lower. . Next day I run ne again. 780, 760, 800

WOW... I have six FICO scores from 3 bureaus! Mine ALWAYS higher that the BANK!

FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders or FICO of San Rafael California is a fraud. To fix that FICO needs to sue the lenders but will not do that because the bureaus want their OWN fico system and it looks like they have one they give to the public and the SECRET one they give to the lenders.

If that is the case then there is a CLASS ACTION suit involving Experian, Equifax and TransUnion.

If "lenders" or extenders of credit can manupulate the results a consumer's FICO is worthless

AMAZING .... how little those of you who are "valued" do not know. I am still going through the responses and will soon leave this site as if the best anyone can do is act like sheep the site is worthless for true issues and valuable for conceptual guidance

Maybe this site is "industry" supported sorta like the fake emails sent during the elections.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

GregB — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:27:34 GMT

Please stop with the nonsense. Virtually every statement that you make is incorrect.

Also, please stop with the nonsense about the computer fonts and being "old", whatever that means. I assume that since I've been using computers for 44 years, that probably qualifies me as being "old". You simply need to adjust your display settings to whatever you need. My father is an administrator on a forum and has no problem with posts in normal fonts - he is 88. There is no reason to irritate everyone and it is rude and obnoxious.

Edited to add since you posted while I was posting:

You stated that you get your FICO scores from the CRAs. Those are NOT FICO scores, exactly as several of us stated in the beginning.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

llecs — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:05:15 GMT

anderson2624 wrote:

NO COMMENTS HOW THAT IS POSSIBLE YET.

anderson2624 wrote:

What I am expressing is that if I obtained a score from myFico or several (or each) of the reporting credit bureaus I would have 3 scores... 775 763... 750. That is what I have done.

________

I get 3 scores based upon the bureaus. 780, 760, 800.

There were plenty of comments as to why there are differences. As evidenced above.....if you pulled your scores from the bureaus, then you don't have your FICO scores. They sell scores but they aren't FICO scores. That can explain 10-20-50-or 100 point plus differences in scores between what your lender pulled and what you pulled from the bureaus.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

creditnocash — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:17:38 GMT

anderson2624 wrote:

The subject was The FICO SCORE we purchase is always higher than the FICO score the Bank can create yet the information comes from the same source. NO COMMENTS HOW THAT IS POSSIBLE YET.

this is wrong!
unless pulling FICO only applys to morgatges?

my bank ran my credit about 6 times over the course of this summer.

the last app i did was for an overdraft line of credit.

that morning i pulled my eq and tu from here and they were 689 and 690.

My car that i bought that day with reports in hand. came back with 707 which hey im fine with.

still quallified for the 0% interest.

Went to work. applied for the odloc. got a score back of 726(PULLED BY THE BANK)

ALSO i apped amex same night as a last hooray. got approved but no score since it was a charge card and since it pif every month i got the "best terms"

My walmart tu08 fico spit ot a 743 while my tu98 from here is a 690. ck tu (FAKO) is 663

there really is no secret way to find out who uses what.

like stated

pay your cards. dont ever be late. only apply for what you need, and can pay back and you will be golden. simple as that.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

beb86 — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 05:17:33 GMT

What is going on here???? Look you came to this site to find information... so maybe you should chill and listen and people will take you seriously....when you pull your CS from TU, EX, or EQ this is NOT a FICO score so it will be different and in some cases close to a 100 point swing.. if you want to complain or make a lawsuit go complain to the CRAs about not providing you a FICO.....A lenders doesn't solely base there decisions off CS alone as the also look at income, credit history, and how you manage your money.....according to the FCRA (which is the law) a lender can use any scoring model (FICO or internal )and base there decision off that, they just must provide you with the score the used and if you don't qualify for the best terms the must provide you with reasons for doing so.

P.S. When you don't provide any information in your post and just rant the whole time and use giant font and are extremely negative people tend to not care so much to help you..Just my .02

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

beb86 — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 05:21:12 GMT

oh and I forgot to add that if you don't like someones rates are cost or how the pull your scores or how there coffee taste or what the peoples names are or what kind of office furniture the have GO TO A DIFFERENT LENDER.

Re: FORGET fico score NOT used by Mtg Lenders

Shogun — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:44:19 GMT

anderson2624 wrote:
INTELLIGENT RESPONCE

Years ago I called FICO. How you do that? Its a secret. Bank of America... etc. No disclosure as to what FICO formula they use. No disclosure that they have more stringent requirements than that PUBLISHED on the FnMae site. Its a secret.

A few days ago I told Merryl Lynch Wealth Management that I would accept their :lies" about FnMae guidelines were changed, their lies about my Debt to Income ration being 49/51 when it is 20/80 and their need to get 4.1 APR on a 70/30 conforming loan even though they were offering at that time 3.5050 APR.

All they had to do was provide me with the Merryl Lynch " for FICO and the mandatory written real estate loan guidelines. SORRY that is a secret.

As before I will follow up because they do not want Federal Oversight. My loan will fund.

An "typical" borrower would assume the bank is honest and correct and the Bank wants to make loans. Their profit center is, in part, the appraisal fee (they keep most of it) and will not inform the client how much they paid the appraiser but much more important they can earn more money gambling in the market while paying base overhead by turning down loans.

I may be ignorant, but seriously!!! OMG,, Sorry, but the Intelligent responce just killed me. I know, I'm above this sort of thing. Just caught me wrong. Best of luck to you.