topic Re: VERY confused FICO... in Understanding FICO® Scoring

VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 06:42:06 GMT

Just applied for a State Farm CC and was approved but it says my credit score with TransUnion is 739 instead of the 770 that is list for the TU that I get from this website

I JUST got my score at the beginning of the month, then after I applied checked it later in the month.

Did applying for the CC literally drop my score 31 points or am i missing something?

Re: VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 07:00:18 GMT

And now I am REALLY confused.

I just wasted $16 bucks to get yet ANOTHER updated TU FICO and it STILL says 770 from this website.

How can StateFarm have been giving a score of 739 (source: Trans Union Consumer Relations) if my TU score here is 770 ????

and the score ranges on this paper I got from SF says 221 - 950 which doesnt sound like a FICO score at all.

So whats going on with TU...are they using multiple scoring methods...and if so why in the world am I paying for my FICO if TU isnt giving my FICO to CC issuers when they want my score????

Re: VERY confused FICO...

bettercreditguy1 — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 11:40:34 GMT

What you are seeing at this site is a True FICO score. What you are viewing from SF is probably a VANTAGE SCORE, which is based on an alogrithm created internally by TU for competition against Fico. THey use different scales (Fico tops at 850, Vantage 950), thus you can not linearly compare the scores. Additionally, Fico has 49 distinct scoring models each proprietary for specific industries, some which are auto, mortage, credit card, life, and other insurance offered products. The model used here is TU98, a little bit older model, yet still used by many financial istitutions today. Hope this helps. In the final analysis, which ever model you follow, always strive to increase your oldest reported number and you will be on the correct path to a better credit reporting history and score. Good Luck!

Re: VERY confused FICO...

Shogun — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:50:46 GMT

There are reasons why scores don't match sometimes. First off, it could be a CC enhanced score which will put more emphasis on your revolving accounts in scoring. The TU pulled here is a TU98, and they could have pulled a different model.

Re: VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 16:20:43 GMT

bettercreditguy1 wrote:
What you are seeing at this site is a True FICO score. What you are viewing from SF is probably a VANTAGE SCORE, which is based on an alogrithm created internally by TU for competition against Fico. THey use different scales (Fico tops at 850, Vantage 950), thus you can not linearly compare the scores. Additionally, Fico has 49 distinct scoring models each proprietary for specific industries, some which are auto, mortage, credit card, life, and other insurance offered products. The model used here is TU98, a little bit older model, yet still used by many financial istitutions today. Hope this helps. In the final analysis, which ever model you follow, always strive to increase your oldest reported number and you will be on the correct path to a better credit reporting history and score. Good Luck!

Thanks for the information.

I had just updated my FICO score a couple weeks ago.

Wish I'd have caught on that it was a different model BEFORE I wasted the $16 updating it again to see what was up.

With Christmas just being over throwing more money away wasnt a very good idea but I couldnt accept that just having a new inquiry would have dragged my score down 30 points. Turns out it didnt affect the MYFICO score at all. The new inquiry is there but the score was unnaffected so I guess the up side is my world isnt coming to an end or anything.

I applied for the SF CC so I can toss my chase card with the $500 limit that they refuse to raise because Chase says I have too much available credit. It was worse than pulling finger nails to get them to finally admit that that was the reason they denied me a larger limit while all my other cards, even BOA, gave me at least $2000...and CapOne even increased me to $4500 during the same period. My NRA CC limit was also increased at my request to $4000 after Chase said I had too much credit so Im beginning to think that Chase is just being stingy with their credit lines and I dont have much need for a $500 limit since we use the cards for all of our purchases in the month, pay them off then trade out for for another card the next month.

Also figured since StateFarm has been really good to us I'd use their card for the autopay for the premiums every month.

Re: VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 16:24:22 GMT

Shogun wrote:
There are reasons why scores don't match sometimes. First off, it could be a CC enhanced score which will put more emphasis on your revolving accounts in scoring. The TU pulled here is a TU98, and they could have pulled a different model.

Thanks for the help.

I guess the score is irrelevant for the most part except to watch for any changes which is what I do with the free FAKO Experian score the wife and I get every month with our US Bank cards (theyre at least good for something)

Probably just keep paying the $10 a month for the basic package here for the two of us. $5/month isnt bad to get a quarterly FICO and credit report. At least helps me keep an eye out for changes

Re: VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:26:56 GMT

Good grief...its worse than I thought.

"Do the NextGen risk models differ from the Classic FICO risk models in what they predict? What’s the range of possible scores?
The NextGen risk models, like the Classic FICO risk models, are designed to rank-order consumers according to the likelihood of default on credit obligations. Both scores are three digit numbers, with the higher values indicating lower risk; however, due to its refined risk assessment, the range of possible scores is greater for NextGen than for Classic FICO. The NextGen score range is 150-950, compared to the 300-850 for Classic U.S. FICO risk scores and 250-900 for Classic FICO industry option scores."

http://riskbasedlending.com/clientsonly/NextGen%20FICO%20Risk%20Score%20Conversion%20FAQ_218.pdf

I think Im going to quit thinking about my score and just keep my report clean. All these scores and apparently multiple ones from FICO itself, is just too much to keep track of or worry about.

Re: VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:44:34 GMT

It gets even better.

Talked to a rep at the SF area who issues the CC's and she was telling me that while you may have a 'score' with whatever agency when an inquiry is made that the lender may get a 'modified' credit score that is based on things like CC's or other types of credit specifically and it wont be the same as the score you are seeing when you check, which I guess is more generic rather than specific.

Makes me think that the conclusion I had the other day was right. Stop worrying about the score and just keep my credit report clean....

Re: VERY confused FICO...

GregB — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:59:09 GMT

mrgoattoo wrote:
And now I am REALLY confused.

I just wasted $16 bucks to get yet ANOTHER updated TU FICO and it STILL says 770 from this website.
How can StateFarm have been giving a score of 739 (source: Trans Union Consumer Relations) if my TU score here is 770 ????

and the score ranges on this paper I got from SF says 221 - 950 which doesnt sound like a FICO score at all.
So whats going on with TU...are they using multiple scoring methods...and if so why in the world am I paying for my FICO if TU isnt giving my FICO to CC issuers when they want my score????

That is a FICO Next Gen 2003, which is the latest version of FICO Next Gen. VERY unusual to see a lender using that on a CC application. It was designed to qualify deadbeats for mortgages that they should have never received during the insanity of 2000-2007. That is one of 51 credit scores that are offerered by TU to commercial customers. The one you are getting from here, FICO Classic 98, is useful but not as useful as FICO Classic 04 as used on a mortgage application. The EQ score sold here is a better score, easily the best score sold to all consumers.

There isn't a large difference between the 739 and the 770. You paid for a 770 and they pulled 739. That is a small difference. If you are looking for more precision than that, you are going to be disappointed.

Re: VERY confused FICO...

GregB — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 19:02:36 GMT

mrgoattoo wrote:
It gets even better.

Talked to a rep at the SF area who issues the CC's and she was telling me that while you may have a 'score' with whatever agency when an inquiry is made that the lender may get a 'modified' credit score that is based on things like CC's or other types of credit specifically and it wont be the same as the score you are seeing when you check, which I guess is more generic rather than specific.

Makes me think that the conclusion I had the other day was right. Stop worrying about the score and just keep my credit report clean....

Saw your last post after my previous post.

The rep was correct EXCEPT the score they gave you was NOT a BankCard Industry Score. It would have been far more logical for them to use one of those.

You last line convinces me that you get it.

Re: VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 19:20:42 GMT

Thanks for the insight, Greg.

I guess while Ive come to understand what creditors like to see on a credit history, the scoring itself still confounds me except the part about getting it higher, which seems to be just a half a dozen points or so that seem to be pretty consistent....ie pay on time, pay more than the minimum payment, dont borrow too much too fast, be consistent with your finances, etc, etc.....ie dont send any red flags to lenders that you may be in financial trouble or be irresponsible with credit, which I guess at the end of the day is about all we can do to improve our credit anyway.

...Re: VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 19:24:24 GMT

And I forgot to mention the rest...

I asked her about the CL for the new SF CC and she said they gave me $5000 for starters which I was a little amazed by seeing that the Chase card I just cancelled that this one was to replace refused to give me more than $500 because they say I have too much credit available.

Just called chase and thanked them for the credit line but said I wanted to cancel because I really have no need for a $500 CL because of the way we use our cards which is using them for ALL of our purchases each month then paying the whole balance end of month. $500 bare covers groceries for a month...

Re: ...Re: VERY confused FICO...

GregB — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:31:18 GMT

Sometimes you can see that the reps are making statements based upon your account and sometimes they seem to use canned or generic answers that have little to do with you.

"too much credit available" rarely makes sense unless you have a very short history or no record of using any of the credit that you have. Some creditors report "Amount of last payment" and some Credit Reports show that information. Since you can't be sure they are seeing that info, it is usually best to allow the statement to generate and then pay in full. If you pay before the statement generates, some creditors may not see the use of the account.

Creditors offer you credit when they want new business and according to the risk they want to take at that moment. Chase may have opened you at $500 more because of their situation than yours. A new account is generally not way above or way below your other credit limits but sometimes they are way off. Chase lowered my limits on my two accounts, while CapOne, Discover, BofA, and Amex have raised my limits during the same time. It clearly has more to do with them than it does with me. Amex drastically reduced my limits before that when they were having problems.

Re: ...Re: VERY confused FICO...

mrgoattoo — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 23:53:30 GMT

GregB wrote:
Sometimes you can see that the reps are making statements based upon your account and sometimes they seem to use canned or generic answers that have little to do with you.

"too much credit available" rarely makes sense unless you have a very short history or no record of using any of the credit that you have. Some creditors report "Amount of last payment" and some Credit Reports show that information. Since you can't be sure they are seeing that info, it is usually best to allow the statement to generate and then pay in full. If you pay before the statement generates, some creditors may not see the use of the account.

Creditors offer you credit when they want new business and according to the risk they want to take at that moment. Chase may have opened you at $500 more because of their situation than yours. A new account is generally not way above or way below your other credit limits but sometimes they are way off. Chase lowered my limits on my two accounts, while CapOne, Discover, BofA, and Amex have raised my limits during the same time. It clearly has more to do with them than it does with me. Amex drastically reduced my limits before that when they were having problems.

What happened then was they gave me $200 CL at first. But at the same time gave the wife $5000 on her card.

I called them and told them to cancel because I have way too much credit to be fooling around with that low of a limit so they upped it to $500. I let it go until now because I use the card sometimes to buy stuff on Amazon and get triple points, but the wifes Amazon chase has a $5000 limit so there really isnt any need to be spreading earned points over the two cards anyway.

Initially they gave me three other reasons why they wouldnt go higher on the CL, none of them made sense so I pursued it more and finally they came back with 'You have too much available credit' and thats where we've been since.

Oddly enough Citibank during all this was giving me one CLI after another without even running a credit check and has been at me every couple months to let them put more cash into my checking account for whatever I want to spend it on. Its nice to know its there but I dont need to get into any serious debt.

I think my previous bad credit from years ago may be more of a factor for Chase than just having too much available credit that I never use.

Re: VERY confused FICO...

AndySoCal — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 02:42:23 GMT

Why do you think it is the Next Gen FICO score? Did I miss something?

Re: VERY confused FICO...

GregB — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:24:44 GMT

It is Next Gen Precision 2003.

That is the only score from TU with the exact range of 221-950. I must admit I was surprised. Before I looked it up, I would have guessed one of the New Account Models.