topic Re: Ethics and Credit Cards in General Credit Topics

Ethics and Credit

teenastie — Tue, 01 May 2012 01:12:22 GMT

Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair?

What practices do you deem acceptable?

Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

What are you views on Co-signers?

What do you think about AU's?

Any animosity towards Backdating?

Share what you think of the way Insurance Companies uses your credit to charge higher rates!

Your Thoughts are greatly appreciated...

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

afbar1114 — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:02:32 GMT

sometimes some may take the unethical route even if they didnt pay. for some like me for istance i had no choice not to pay when i look back on it i wish i took better care of my credit but some issues may be too much for one.. if one were to get sick or thrown out of a house and became homeless or lost their job. one may not have any money. yes i feel like i should have been better with my credit but i was in a situation when i realize now that i should have paid.

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

teenastie — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:08:58 GMT

afbar1114 wrote:
sometimes some may take the unethical route even if they didnt pay. for some like me for instance I had no choice not to pay when I look back on it I wish i took better care of my credit but some issues may be too much for one.. if one were to get sick or thrown out of a house and became homeless or lost their job. one may not have any money. yes i feel like i should have been better with my credit but i was in a situation when i realize now that i should have paid.

OK lets take your example and for arguments sake say that someone else had the same exact circumstance as you but only 1 difference. They had access to a credit repair business that just DV all derogs on the reports and let say their parents have great credit and have no problem making hypothetical person an AU on their accounts. As well as cosign a beater and get 3.9%

Why should YOU have to work hard going about it the right way (rebuilder cards, 19.99% auto loan apr etc) when others are "gaming the system."

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

learnin113 — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:17:34 GMT

This is a touchy subject, because then every person who files for bankruptcy could be considered to be "gaming the system". Every person/situation is different.

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

tbc — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:14:17 GMT

Wow, great discussion to start.

Altho, I do believe it might start a TOS conflict.

This is just where I stand.

I used no means, other than poor managment on my part, to get me into my position of rebuilding.

I have worked hard this past year and half on restoring what I ultimately tore apart.

Illness and lack of health insurance, and poor planning, got me into the credit sickness, as I like to call it.

Proper planning prevents pea poor performance.

This place is an awesome place to share ideas, ethical and or unethical.

I am a true believer in KARMA. If you are unethical in your rebuilding progress, I believe it will ultimately come back around.

I am mostly a lurker here. Just reading, reading, reading, absorbing. Then I apply the principles I have learned in my life to some of the advice here.

I believe if you owe a debt, you should pay it.

If you don't owe it, then dispute it.

Its a simple right vs wrong, anyway just for me.

There are some great contributers here, that have helped me get in the right direction.

The only thing in life that is a sure predictor is time. Time heals wounds, time heals bad credit. However if one hasn't learned how they got in the mess to begin with, those wounds can become inflammed again, and or opened/exposed.

My case, was an illness, and was never educated in fiances. Then one day. BAM!

It hit really, really, hard. I think I even ended up on my knees praying. There are no quick fixes to credit. There are patches, but never the same.

JMHO.

Peace

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

jeffery581 — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:17:34 GMT

RE: Then its unethical to have them change your report...

All of this is between you and who you owe. It's also nobody elses business!

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

oracles — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:18:37 GMT

teenastie wrote:
Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair? What practices do you deem acceptable? Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

Your Thoughts...

well just to make it clear, the OP who made these statements, from what i read in the other thread, does not necessarily believe these statements. The OP was just making a point on what they were doing by freezing 2 of thier credit reports.

I for one think that sometimes some people on this site get to carry away with their holier than thou attitude. Yes there are some things that are blantantly unethical like disputing an inquiry when in reality they did do it, etc, however there are other things that are in the gray area and some try to come down hard.

Life is not fair sometimes and we do what is best to make the situation better and get ahead in life. If it doesnt hurt another person and only affect you and your life then so be it. Of course this is just my opinion

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

teenastie — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:22:00 GMT

learnin113 wrote:
This is a touchy subject, because then every person who files for bankruptcy could be considered to "gaming the system". Every person/situation is different.

This is true my brother in law purposely filed Bankruptcy when he was younger... Now his credit it near the 800 mark on 2 CR's. My wife went through some tough times and chose to keep everything open and pay late a few times. She still has negative marks on your CR but a respectable score. The fact that she is "hurting" a little more now because she owned up to her debts is only noble to the extent of this story. Cause in the life of mathematical algorithms He is superior.

I guess that's why we have Blacklists it kind of keep things fair to a certain extent. But charging thousands of dollars with the intention of never paying back, filing a BK, then rebuilding to a perfect score kind of irks me...

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

omskillet — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:24 GMT

teenastie wrote:
Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair? What practices do you deem acceptable? Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

Your Thoughts...

There is nothing unethical about it. Our credit reports are just snapshots of a database. What goes in the database is between you and your creditors. If you can negotiate with them changes based on actions that are beneficial to you and them then more power to you and them. Remember the credit agencies don't have the power. They just store information...a middle man if you will.

EDIT: I should add also that what the OP mentions as unethical are things that are not prohibited by law or the FCRA.

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

teenastie — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:25:11 GMT

oracles wrote:
teenastie wrote:
Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair? What practices do you deem acceptable? Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

Your Thoughts...
well just to make it clear, the OP who made these statements, from what i read in the other thread, does not necessarily believe these statements. The OP was just making a point on what they were doing by freezing 2 of thier credit reports.

I for one think that sometimes some people on this site get to carry away with their holier than thou attitude. Yes there are some things that are blantantly unethical like disputing an inquiry when in reality they did do it, etc, however there are other things that are in the gray area and some try to come down hard.

Life is not fair sometimes and we do what is best to make the situation better and get ahead in life. If it doesnt hurt another person and only affect you and your life then so be it. Of course this is just my opinion

1. True- but still great statements nonetheless

2. Care to elaborate?

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

teenastie — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:31:04 GMT

omskillet wrote:
teenastie wrote:
Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair? What practices do you deem acceptable? Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

Your Thoughts...
There is nothing unethical about it. Our credit reports are just snapshots of a database. What goes in the database is between you and your creditors. If you can negotiate with them changes based on actions that are beneficial to you and them then more power to you and them. Remember the credit agencies don't have the power. They just store information...a middle man if you will.

So are you ok with the way some people game in every way? Are all things fair?!? Can I dispute till my hearts content? Should I lie to an attorney to get a baddie off a CR? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing just asking the questions :smileyhappy: Are you ok with the unfair advantages some AU's get? How about cosigners? What about the person who can get a certain baddie off their report but you cannot get your inaccurate late pulled off because it's verifiable!!!

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

omskillet — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:37:37 GMT

teenastie wrote:
omskillet wrote:
teenastie wrote:
Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair? What practices do you deem acceptable? Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

Your Thoughts...
There is nothing unethical about it. Our credit reports are just snapshots of a database. What goes in the database is between you and your creditors. If you can negotiate with them changes based on actions that are beneficial to you and them then more power to you and them. Remember the credit agencies don't have the power. They just store information...a middle man if you will.
So are you ok with the way some people game in every way? Are all things fair?!? Can I dispute till my hearts content? Should I lie to an attorney to get a baddie off a CR? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing just asking the questions :smileyhappy: Are you ok with the unfair advantages some AU's get? How about cosigners? What about the person who can get a certain baddie off their report but you cannot get your inaccurate late pulled off because it's verifiable!!!

If its not against the law and someone chooses to take a certain approach then who am I to say what they should or shouldn't do? I know what approach I've taken and I've used my own judgement of ethical in my approach. If you read the forums long enough you'll see someone who has achieved some kind of credit repair that you haven't and you can't say its unfair.

We talk about credit as if there really is some method to the madness. The truth is that is so varied from person to person that any approach to credit repair will be individualized to the point where what might seem "ethical" to someone might seem "unethical" to someone else.

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

teenastie — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:38:39 GMT

tbc wrote:
Wow, great discussion to start.

Altho, I do believe it might start a TOS conflict.

This is just where I stand.

I used no means, other than poor managment on my part, to get me into my position of rebuilding.

I have worked hard this past year and half on restoring what I ultimately tore apart.

Illness and lack of health insurance, and poor planning, got me into the credit sickness, as I like to call it.

Proper planning prevents pea poor performance.

This place is an awesome place to share ideas, ethical and or unethical.

I am a true believer in KARMA. If you are unethical in your rebuilding progress, I believe it will ultimately come back around.

I am mostly a lurker here. Just reading, reading, reading, absorbing. Then I apply the principles I have learned in my life to some of the advice here.

I believe if you owe a debt, you should pay it.

If you don't owe it, then dispute it.

Its a simple right vs wrong, anyway just for me.

There are some great contributers here, that have helped me get in the right direction.

The only thing in life that is a sure predictor is time. Time heals wounds, time heals bad credit. However if one hasn't learned how they got in the mess to begin with, those wounds can become inflammed again, and or opened/exposed.

My case, was an illness, and was never educated in fiances. Then one day. BAM!

It hit really, really, hard. I think I even ended up on my knees praying. There are no quick fixes to credit. There are patches, but never the same.

JMHO.
Peace

Thanks for comming out of lurking status :smileyhappy:

So would you play with loop-holes or leave them alone? An educated customer is usually a good customer. My TU report will be perfect tomorrow (as my last baddie falls off)- Should I funnel all my apps to my TU report for the next 5 years lmao!

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

teenastie — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:41:37 GMT

omskillet wrote:
teenastie wrote:
omskillet wrote:
teenastie wrote:
Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair? What practices do you deem acceptable? Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

Your Thoughts...
There is nothing unethical about it. Our credit reports are just snapshots of a database. What goes in the database is between you and your creditors. If you can negotiate with them changes based on actions that are beneficial to you and them then more power to you and them. Remember the credit agencies don't have the power. They just store information...a middle man if you will.
So are you ok with the way some people game in every way? Are all things fair?!? Can I dispute till my hearts content? Should I lie to an attorney to get a baddie off a CR? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing just asking the questions :smileyhappy: Are you ok with the unfair advantages some AU's get? How about cosigners? What about the person who can get a certain baddie off their report but you cannot get your inaccurate late pulled off because it's verifiable!!!
If its not against the law and someone chooses to take a certain approach then who am I to say what they should or shouldn't do? I know what approach I've taken and I've used my own judgement of ethical in my approach. If you read the forums long enough you'll see someone who has achieved some kind of credit repair that you haven't and you can't say its unfair.

We talk about credit as if there really is some method to the madness. The truth is that is so varied from person to person that any approach to credit repair will be individualized to the point where what might seem "ethical" to someone might seem "unethical" to someone else.

Lying to a court or misreporting something on a CR is fraud. Check your local listing for sentencing guidelines :smileyhappy:

Good point!

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

AZHeather — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:49:53 GMT

Nicely put TBC!

I too believe that you have to own up to your mistakes. You can take the easy (wrong) way out and attempt to DV everything that you don't like on your reports and hope that the collectors don't have their file in order, but you really are not learning anything from it and you will be more inclined to continue to make the same mistakes; only to attempt to DV your way out again. You should DV only if you truly do not belive that you owe it.

You should realize what you did wrong, or in many cases, "where" things went wrong and what you can do differently to prevent it from happening again. For me, my mistakes are my reminders for the next few years. Reminders to be more careful; not to fall into a financial hole again; not to live beyond my actual means; put money aside for that "what if" situation; not to max out the cards just because there are high limits..

If you owe it, pay it. If you caused it, live with it for the next few years and bear that scar as a reminder.

I know things happen. My credit fell apart due to a sudden divorce and unexpected loss of a business. I lost everything. However, it was my fault for not being more prepared for life's what ifs. Poor planning and thinking "it will never happen to me." I also learned the importance of talking with your creditors. I now know that can usually go pretty far. If they know your situation and you talk with them and keep them informed, they are less likely to ship you off to collections and will work with you on what you can afford.

Stealing is unethical. When you charge up your credit card(s) then fail to pay them (for whatever reason), you are stealing. If you are cared for at the hospital then fail to pay your bill, you are stealing. If you got a car then fail to make your payments, you are stealing. If you took out a student loan, got the education, then fail to pay it back, you are stealing.

As for GW's...I feel that is between you and the creditor. Generally they will not issue them unless you have provided a very good reason and proved yourself worthy since the negative event.

JMHO as well. :smileywink:

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

omskillet — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:50:35 GMT

teenastie wrote:
omskillet wrote:
teenastie wrote:
omskillet wrote:
teenastie wrote:
Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair? What practices do you deem acceptable? Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

Your Thoughts...
There is nothing unethical about it. Our credit reports are just snapshots of a database. What goes in the database is between you and your creditors. If you can negotiate with them changes based on actions that are beneficial to you and them then more power to you and them. Remember the credit agencies don't have the power. They just store information...a middle man if you will.
So are you ok with the way some people game in every way? Are all things fair?!? Can I dispute till my hearts content? Should I lie to an attorney to get a baddie off a CR? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing just asking the questions :smileyhappy: Are you ok with the unfair advantages some AU's get? How about cosigners? What about the person who can get a certain baddie off their report but you cannot get your inaccurate late pulled off because it's verifiable!!!
If its not against the law and someone chooses to take a certain approach then who am I to say what they should or shouldn't do? I know what approach I've taken and I've used my own judgement of ethical in my approach. If you read the forums long enough you'll see someone who has achieved some kind of credit repair that you haven't and you can't say its unfair.

We talk about credit as if there really is some method to the madness. The truth is that is so varied from person to person that any approach to credit repair will be individualized to the point where what might seem "ethical" to someone might seem "unethical" to someone else.
Lying to a court or misreporting something on a CR is fraud. Check your local listing for sentencing guidelines :smileyhappy:

Good point!

I would not encourage anyone to ever lie to anyone else about anything!

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

LS2982 — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:52:46 GMT

teenastie wrote:
Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair? What practices do you deem acceptable? Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

"So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

Your Thoughts...

To me, I don't consider anything unethical if it isn't illegal and your not intentionally lieing about something. PFD's, GW's, Backdating, Freezing reports etc. its all fair game. It's up to the bank/creditor to decide if they want to play by those unwritten rules or not.

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

LS2982 — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:55:12 GMT

teenastie wrote:
afbar1114 wrote:
sometimes some may take the unethical route even if they didnt pay. for some like me for instance I had no choice not to pay when I look back on it I wish i took better care of my credit but some issues may be too much for one.. if one were to get sick or thrown out of a house and became homeless or lost their job. one may not have any money. yes i feel like i should have been better with my credit but i was in a situation when i realize now that i should have paid.
OK lets take your example and for arguments sake say that someone else had the same exact circumstance as you but only 1 difference. They had access to a credit repair business that just DV all derogs on the reports and let say their parents have great credit and have no problem making hypothetical person an AU on their accounts. As well as cosign a beater and get 3.9%

Why should YOU have to work hard going about it the right way (rebuilder cards, 19.99% auto loan apr etc) when others are "gaming the system."

How is that gaming the system? Is it illegal? Nobody is making the CA or OC delete info, if they cant verify it, it shouldn't be on a report. As long as they can verify the debt, they can tell the CRA to keep it on the reports.

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

LS2982 — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:56:38 GMT

tbc wrote:
Wow, great discussion to start.

Altho, I do believe it might start a TOS conflict.

This is just where I stand.

I used no means, other than poor managment on my part, to get me into my position of rebuilding.

I have worked hard this past year and half on restoring what I ultimately tore apart.

Illness and lack of health insurance, and poor planning, got me into the credit sickness, as I like to call it.

Proper planning prevents pea poor performance.

This place is an awesome place to share ideas, ethical and or unethical.

I am a true believer in KARMA. If you are unethical in your rebuilding progress, I believe it will ultimately come back around.

I am mostly a lurker here. Just reading, reading, reading, absorbing. Then I apply the principles I have learned in my life to some of the advice here.

I believe if you owe a debt, you should pay it.

If you don't owe it, then dispute it.

Its a simple right vs wrong, anyway just for me.

There are some great contributers here, that have helped me get in the right direction.

The only thing in life that is a sure predictor is time. Time heals wounds, time heals bad credit. However if one hasn't learned how they got in the mess to begin with, those wounds can become inflammed again, and or opened/exposed.

My case, was an illness, and was never educated in fiances. Then one day. BAM!

It hit really, really, hard. I think I even ended up on my knees praying. There are no quick fixes to credit. There are patches, but never the same.

JMHO.
Peace

Totally agree! Excellent post!

Re: Ethics and Credit Cards

LS2982 — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:59:25 GMT

teenastie wrote:
learnin113 wrote:
This is a touchy subject, because then every person who files for bankruptcy could be considered to "gaming the system". Every person/situation is different.
This is true my brother in law purposely filed Bankruptcy when he was younger... Now his credit it near the 800 mark on 2 CR's. My wife went through some tough times and chose to keep everything open and pay late a few times. She still has negative marks on your CR but a respectable score. The fact that she is "hurting" a little more now because she owned up to her debts is only noble to the extent of this story. Cause in the life of mathematical algorithms He is superior.

I guess that's why we have Blacklists it kind of keep things fair to a certain extent. But charging thousands of dollars with the intention of never paying back, filing a BK, then rebuilding to a perfect score kind of irks me...

This I absolutely agree with! Never really understood why BK's are legal. You OWE the debt, either pay it or wait 7 years as punishment for not paying it.