topic Re: Need serious advice in General Credit Topics

Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 01:51:16 GMT

OK, so here is a story you won't likely read too many times. To make a long story as short as possible, in 2009 I went to an overstocked dealer to get a great deal on a leftover brand new 2008 ATV. I had the cash in my pocket for the purchase at the time. As we were negotiating the deal they brought up that the manufacturer had a 0% credit offer. My credit was superb so I thought why not try for the free financing and put a little new activity on my credit report as it had been a long time.

Well low and behold I was not approved for the 0% and told the reason was I no longer had enough credit reporting as much of my history had been paid off over 7 years. They offered me 7.9% unsecured though, so it must not have been that bad. I just paid cash and took it home.

Some time passes by and one day I get a letter in the mail from the manufacturer. I open it only to find it is an open account on this purchase with a payment due. I of course go batty and start making calls. Turns out the factory financing is HSBC backed and the dealer is going belly up. Dealer denies all activity and HSBC swears it is processed. So here I am stuck even though I have a clean bill of sale in my safe. So I turn to an attorney for advice. We look at it all and he advises that I would honestly be better off to just make the payments on the small loan as it will cost me more to file against both parties to figure out who is the crook, and that there was no guarantee of victory. I get a few more second opinions which are the same. So thinking my credit could use the activity I went ahead and started paying it, and indeed was benefiting from it, which I know for a fact because a credit monitoring service was tacked on as well and HSBC would not cancel.

All is fine and I am paying along for I don't know, a little over 2 years until the place I was working at the time folded up also. They try their best to avoid paying unemployment and meanwhile I can't find a job period. I end up going 4 months with zero income. That put me through my savings in a hurry. I started prioritizing and let a credit card payment go 28 days past due before paying, which they reported 30 days on (and later corrected). Well surprise surprise I get a statement from HSBC and they have tripled my interest and tripled my payment on the ATV although I have never paid them a DAY late.

I am broke and infuriated by just everything so I say F-U!!! And that is that. My unemployment starts coming in shortly after so I tell myself to try to negotiate but it is no use. So finally I go 30 days and say screw it period because things are too tight to pay that kind of payment and keep my other bills in check.

Soon they start threatening to repo the ATV and I start threatening with my paperwork myself. They send a repo guy out for it although I have my paperwork, and despite the fact it is an unsecured credit card. I meet the guy at my house with my paperwork who finds himself shocked and perplexed by the truth. He apologizes and says he will have a rep out which also comes and looks at the paperwork... and basically it all just goes away.

No biggie until all this time later I check my credit and find it and some other bogus stuff on it like a perfectly paid account that was paid off in 1997 showing up on my report as a zero balance charge off. So I start attacking one thing at a time and have the comical mistake removed only to find that actually HURT my score? What the heck?

So now, as easy as it would be to just dispute this crap from HSBC and get it off, I am afraid it will hurt me more?

Can someone offer some advice here?

Help me understand why that had a negative effect?

I only have a home loan down near paid off, a car loan 1 year old that is down to $12,000, a small personal loan paid down to $3,000 and about $1,800 on a credit card I have had 4-5 years. Do I have so little credit that removal of the bad is going to hurt me even more? -OR- did the old mistake from 97 only hurt because it had age and was $0 balance vs the limit?

I am unsure rather to try to fight this off my report or not. So I have been scared to react.

We were hoping to shop for a bigger house this spring :(

Re: Need serious advice

RobertEG — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 02:18:37 GMT

You dont have to go to court to get it blocked from your credit report or to compel them to produce documentation.

You assert you never had an account with them. They assert you did.

That is prime fodder for simply using the identity theft provisions of the FCRA, which entitle you to both block the information from your credit report, and compel the creditor to produce all business records pertaining to the alleged account. See FCRA 605B and 609(e).

To initiate that process, simply file a police report, stating that you did not authorize any such account, and thus any records in their possession must have resulted from identity theft. You dont have to assert who did it, or provide proofs. Just state the you did not authorize the account.

Simply send a copy of the police report to the CRA, and they must immediately block the information from your credit report.

Additionlly send a copy to the creditor, and demand all business records pertaining to the account under the provisions of FCRA 609(e).

Re: Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 02:54:33 GMT

Well, I clearly did not know that and what you know is I guess not common knowledge or it should have came up at some point when I produced documentation. Like I said, I have all of the paperwork from the transaction as I paid in cash. So I have the receipt and also a clear bill of sale, which in this state is for an ATV as a clear title as my state does not title ATV's at all (yet). In defense of the attorneys I spoke with, I am of course mad about this, but they were probably all thinking of another avenue of action, which would have cost more than the ATV to file one action to either party.

Overall though, I sort of have faith in the system, and am gullible enough to believe that a simple dispute with the documentation I have would get it removed... As the only authorization they could possibly produce record of is my signature on the credit application pamphlet I signed to try for the 0% promotion. It actually started pouring rain that day while we were still haggling, so I took my sweet time on the documentation and know I didn't sign anything I don't have a copy of except that credit app flier.

Anyways, be that as it may, I am not really too worried about that aspect. What I am worried about is rather or not this will help or HURT my credit score????

The first thing I disputed was one that got fat fingered by the company when I paid and closed it and none of the bureaus caught or removed it. I paid it off in 1997 and the company fat fingered it and it had been sitting on my credit as a $0 balance, charge off, closed in 1997.... 15 YEARS since last activity... lol... And it caused my score to drop when the company removed it.

So what I am concerned with and worried about is what the end result will be if I get this removed also.

Re: Need serious advice

webhopper — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 04:00:42 GMT

Personally I would have negative information removed. The fact that a negative item is there automatically puts you in a lower score bucket especially if you have one or two. Once all negative items are gone then your maximum score possible increases because your file is placed into a bucket that allows it to climb all the way to the top. It is normal to be stuck in the high 600s with one or two negatives but once these are gone you start hitting high 700s and 800s depending on length of credit history and number of inquiries.

Re: Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 05:20:01 GMT

Hummm... did not know there were buckets. Glad I am here.

Any explaination why the removal of the accidental $0 charge off account closed in 1997 caused a drop?

Also, you said inquiries... which reminds me, I have some of those I did not authorize on all of my reports. One has 9 inquiries. I only did ONE almost a year ago. I went to the dealer with a figure and where to send the numbers for the financing. ONE. Now some of them are consistent with them trying to "shop it" anyways despite that as they are the same day. But some of them are at other times. So I have to dispute that as well. So I am wondering how correcting that from 9 to 1 will effect things and when the 1 will not count against me any longer as well.

Re: Need serious advice

webhopper — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 06:16:18 GMT

Hoss_Delgado wrote:
Hummm... did not know there were buckets. Glad I am here.
Any explaination why the removal of the accidental $0 charge off account closed in 1997 caused a drop?

Also, you said inquiries... which reminds me, I have some of those I did not authorize on all of my reports. One has 9 inquiries. I only did ONE almost a year ago. I went to the dealer with a figure and where to send the numbers for the financing. ONE. Now some of them are consistent with them trying to "shop it" anyways despite that as they are the same day. But some of them are at other times. So I have to dispute that as well. So I am wondering how correcting that from 9 to 1 will effect things and when the 1 will not count against me any longer as well.

That seems pretty easy to explain.. you lost that history without moving into a better bucket. For example my experian report had both a collection and a judgment as well as a 90 day late payment. I just KNEW that my score would jump with the removal of the judgment and the 90 day late payment. But to my knowledge my experian report is about the same... my mortgage gal in July told me that removing the judgment would only give me a 3 point increase.... not enough to bump me to 720... I didn't believe her but now I do... I'm still in the bad bucket because the collection is still reporting. The only way for me to get to the mid 750s is to break out of that bad bucket is to get that last negative item removed. Everyones experience is different... but the bucket thing is real!

Re: Need serious advice

webhopper — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 06:25:48 GMT

When you say "other times" are you talking about roughly within the same week? If not in the same week then this is.consistent with fraudulent activity associated with the ATV fiasco. My opinion is that you could likely have some inquiries removed but generally speaking inquiries stop hurting you after 1 year so there is no need to stress. You do need to scan your credit report (the one from the credit bureau; not the one from here) and look for any addresses that are not yours that you never lived at.

Start with pulling your FREE Credit Report's from annualcreditreport.com. They tend to have more info on them than ones from a 3rd party. The Credit Reports from annualcreditreport.com, come directly from each of the CRA's. You can pull 1 Free Credit Report from TU, EQ and EX every 12 months.

Save your money and Don't Buy the Scores, they are what we call FAKO's.

If you see address you don't recognize; include this with the police report and also contact the bureaus and place a fraud alert on your account so that a would be theif cannot continue to harm your credit reputation by taking out anymore loans in your name. If it was a finance guy then he likely still works in some type of finance role and you could still be at risk.

Re: Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 07:17:41 GMT

Well that is what I am afraid of again. I can get the ATV mess off my report I feel sure from a regular dispute. But I fear that it will hurt again instead of help. That is like 2.5 years of perfect history on that account consistent with all others before it was made impossible for me to pay. I mean you want to think that removing this negative thing will help for removing a negative amd also removing a credit card that appears maxed out or over the limit. But I am not so sure. I guess it is a gamble?

As for the inquiries... I think what happened was when I went to buy my last vehicle a year ago the cocky finance guy felt sure he could sell me one of his lenders vs mine after pulling my report so he ran it a bunch of places before running it through mine. I have one from the dealer, then 6 more I don't recognize all the same day. Then another 9 days later I don't recognize. Then another 3 months later I don't recognize. I only authorized one run through my lender for a car loan and that is it period. Nothing else.

I also thought several in say 30 days for the same type thing, only 1 should show/count regarless of what the stupid dealer did?

Re: Need serious advice

guiness56 — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:13:42 GMT

It may show numerous inquiries but FICO only scores it as one.

Re: Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 16:32:41 GMT

It is showing up on my analysis as one of the things hurting my score. Yes it should count as one as I understand it but it is not being counted that way.

Re: Need serious advice

guiness56 — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 16:40:39 GMT

That analysis comes from the CRA not FICO. The CRA see the inquiries as hurting your score but FICO only counts them as one.

Re: Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:34:07 GMT

That was a bit confusing because I am looking at that here at myFICO and being shown that it is hurting my score. I am new to this so I guess I am going to have to catch on to a lot. So the ScorePower section is all Equifax.... in Fair Issacs determines what my FICO is based on that report.

Crap! Do you have 3 separate FICO scores?

Or one average FICO based on the info from all 3?

I am going to be mad if I am paying FICO for my score and only getting to see one of the 3.... lol.

Re: Need serious advice

webhopper — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:38:13 GMT

In my recent experience with mortgage inquiries... they counted as one for 30 days and at the end of 30 days my score dropped around 15 points from inquiries. the inquiries plus a high balance reporting on my only credit card at the time made me lose mortgage approval and I had to start.from.scratch and ended.up with a 20 yr loan instead of a 30 year loan.

Re: Need serious advice

guiness56 — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:48:30 GMT

You have 3 separate FICO scores because there are 3 different CRAs. However, TU and EQ are the only ones a consumer can buy. EX quit selling theirs to the consumer in 2009. Other than myFICO, it is hard to even find those.

Where are you getting your score?

Re: Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:48:19 GMT

I clicked your 101 link and see the answer there. Very informative.

I am still mad though. I came to FICO to get my real score lenders use. But I am only getting 1 of 3 they might use. How cheesy. I'm disappointed. So how do I go about getting the other 2?

Re: Need serious advice

guiness56 — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:50:17 GMT

I thought you could get TU and EQ here. You can't get EX anywhere any more except through a lender.

There are many different flavors of FICO.

Re: Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:59:57 GMT

guiness56 wrote:
You have 3 separate FICO scores because there are 3 different CRAs. However, TU and EQ are the only ones a consumer can buy. EX quit selling theirs to the consumer in 2009. Other than myFICO, it is hard to even find those.

Where are you getting your score?

myFICO.com

When I log into my account it says Fair Issac Corp in the browser.

So in hindsight I should have paid the $18 or whatever to get my TU Report? And then I would have had my TU FICO? Crap. I did not know there were 3 and you would think since there are 3 that FICO themselves could provide all 3.

Re: Need serious advice

guiness56 — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 18:09:15 GMT

Even though there are 3, each one is owned independently.. Fair Issacs is for the scoring models and has nothing to do with the CRAs or who they choose to make their FICO scores available to.

Yes, you could have got both.

Re: Need serious advice

Hoss_Delgado — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 08:34:14 GMT

I still don't feel any more comfortable or convinced about the original topic.

I still fear that fighting to remove this has just as much potential to hurt my score as it does to help it.

I am still not clear on which way this one is going to go.

I fear removing the blemish may in turn hurt due to the loss of the account, the account age, and the perfect 2.5 years or so of payment history before I had to buck up.

Re: Need serious advice

RobertEG — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:15:15 GMT

I dont see that you are the one who has to "fight." You can shift the burden to them.

Somene used your identity to establish an account without your authorization. Congress amended the FCRA to address the catch-22 situation where a consumer cannot independently prove anything because they did not authorize the transaction.

You have the FCRA identity theft procedure available to you, and if you follow that process, you are entitled to have the information immediately blocked from your credit report under FCRA 605B. They have no say or input in the matter. The CRA must block the information from your CR, provided you submit to them a sworn police report and proof of your identity.

You also have the ability to shift the burden to THEM to provide all their business records related to the alleged accoun by simply sending a copy of the police report to the creditor pursuant to FCRA 609(e). A compulsory mini-discovery procedure that does not require going to court. You can additionally send a copy to any debt collector, compelling them to provide information, pursuant to FCRA 615(g)(2).

The identity theft process is an alternative to the FCRA dispute process, and thus avoids any dispute flag and the entire dispute process. The dispute process is seriously lacking when the consumer does not have documentation to support their assertion of inaccurate reporting, and thus usually results in a simple verification by the creditor.

The FCRA dispute process does not include provision for compelling them to document their verification, so use of that process usually leaves the consumer hanging. Ergo, congress enacted the identity theft process.

All you must be willing to do is to put your assertion that you never authorized the account into a sworn police report and mail copies to the CRA and creditor/debt collector.

You are not required to prove your assertion, just make a statement to that effect that does not include any knowingly inaccurate information.