topic Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools in Mortgage Loans

USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

iamwhoiam — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 14:50:42 GMT

The rules exclude in ground pools. There is a property I am looking at that has a pool in the very back of the yard that is fenced in and covered and has not been used for years. I have absolutely no intention of repairing it for use.

The house is perfect for us. It is outdated but there is plenty of space and the house is sound. The issue is the pool.

The rules state that removing before or after closing is unacceptable. Is there a way around this? Filling it in? Can an exception be made?

There are slim pickings in my area for homes so unless something new pops up in the next 2 months, I am SOL.

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

pizzadude — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 16:26:24 GMT

iamwhoiam wrote:
The rules exclude in ground pools. There is a property I am looking at that has a pool in the very back of the yard that is fenced in and covered and has not been used for years. I have absolutely no intention of repairing it for use.

The house is perfect for us. It is outdated but there is plenty of space and the house is sound. The issue is the pool.

The rules state that removing before or after closing is unacceptable. Is there a way around this? Filling it in? Can an exception be made?

There are slim pickings in my area for homes so unless something new pops up in the next 2 months, I am SOL.

So you are saying that even if you fill the pool in with dirt.....it is still considered a pool ? And USDA won't finance any property with a pool, right ?

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

IOBA — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:35:10 GMT

lol - tell the lender it's a container garden! ;)

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

IOBA — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:37:23 GMT

1. Does the listing say it has a pool? If yes, have the seller change that IMMEDIATELY and print out a new MLS listing without the pool mentioned.

2. Fill in the pool and landscape over it. How will the lender know if there was a pool? Probably can't tell unless they know the history of the house or look at the MLS listing.

3. The appraiser won't see a pool, so it won't be mentioned in his report.

4. The inspector wont' see a pool, so it wont' be mentioned in his report.

5. Tell the sellers NOT to mention that there USE TO BE a pool.

6. Tell the realtors NOT To mention that there USE TO BE a pool.

I hope all of the above works for you.

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

cracksmeup — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 20:47:38 GMT

I was unaware that USDA wouldn't finance a house with a pool. Can you tell me where you found this info please?

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

StartingOver10 — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:05:01 GMT

IOBA wrote:
1. Does the listing say it has a pool? If yes, have the seller change that IMMEDIATELY and print out a new MLS listing without the pool mentioned.

2. Fill in the pool and landscape over it. How will the lender know if there was a pool? Probably can't tell unless they know the history of the house or look at the MLS listing.

3. The appraiser won't see a pool, so it won't be mentioned in his report.

4. The inspector wont' see a pool, so it wont' be mentioned in his report.

5. Tell the sellers NOT to mention that there USE TO BE a pool.

6. Tell the realtors NOT To mention that there USE TO BE a pool.

I hope all of the above works for you.

****Don't do this. It is considered loan fraud. There are other sources of information to determine if there was a pool previously; for example, an inground pool is on your property tax records.

Why don't you check to see if you can get a waiver for the pool issue? It's always best to go in with accurate info...don't get yourself caught up in fraud.

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

IOBA — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 02:41:16 GMT

StartingOver10 - if the home owners (aka sellers) filled the pool and landscaped over it, wouldn't that be legit?

Is there a different method for in ground removal?

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

StartingOver10 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:45:34 GMT

The seller could do it, but they might need a permit to do so. In our county you need a permit for everything....lol. They might be able to do it under an 'owner/builder' permit.

I am only mentioning the permit portion because that is what most people forget about when they go to demolish something. And, if the pool is removed, it ought to reflect that on the tax rolls too.

The very best thing to do is find out if USDA will give a waiver first.

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

pizzadude — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 04:31:35 GMT

OP stated that removing it before or after closing it not acceptable......sounds like it wouldn't fly regardless of who drives in and dumps the dirt.

A few other ideas:

1) empty, dry, paint it, install stakeboarding rails, ramps, etc... it's a park !

2) fill partially with sand and fence it in ~ giant litter box or sandbox depending on who your kids are...

3) wintertime luge track ?

4) bomb shelter ????

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

Twizzle — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:56:52 GMT

iamwhoiam wrote:

The rules state that removing before or after closing is unacceptable. Is there a way around this? Filling it in? Can an exception be made?

When we bought our house, the seller (an investor group composed of REALTORS. eesh.) tried to push us into an USDA loan. No idea why, we were going FHA. But anyway, our realtor cut them off and said the property has an in-ground pool. Not happening. Makes me wonder how they didn't know this, and it makes me a little scared for people who hire them. But that's OT. :)

You say the rules state before or after closing. Which makes me think that a pool can't be filled while under contract to satisfy closing/loan reqs. It makes no sense to me that you couldn't buy a house that EVER had a pool. That would be sort of, well, nuts. But then again...the process is nutty as a whole. Anyway, if the pool could be filled by the owners while not under contract, and then sell it...?

I'm not sure how you'd get them to agree, but. If it's unusable, it's only going to be a detriment to their selling it anyway, not to mention unnecessary home ins expense. Are you working w a broker? I'd ask for clarification from them?

And good luck. We have to fill-in ours this spring. I wish it was already done. :(

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

stan_the_man — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 04:00:10 GMT

iamwhoiam wrote:
The rules exclude in ground pools. There is a property I am looking at that has a pool in the very back of the yard that is fenced in and covered and has not been used for years. I have absolutely no intention of repairing it for use.

The house is perfect for us. It is outdated but there is plenty of space and the house is sound. The issue is the pool.

The rules state that removing before or after closing is unacceptable. Is there a way around this? Filling it in? Can an exception be made?

There are slim pickings in my area for homes so unless something new pops up in the next 2 months, I am SOL.

OP, it appears that the USDA doen't have a no pool rule. It looks like you just have to jump through a few more hoops because they won't count the value of the pool in the appraisal -- which might disqualify from using a USDA loan, depending on how much you want to borrow versus the value of the property.

"In-ground swimming pools. The loan, not including RD fee, is limited to the appraised value WITHOUT the pool. The FHA appraiser must justify value 'as is' AND a value as if the property had no pool. The value of the pool must be established and justified."
http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/fl/qkgde.pdf

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

Twizzle — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:04:34 GMT

OP said USDA Direct, though? That link is for Guaranteed. You can't have an in-ground w a direct. http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/hi/rural%20housing%20programs.htm

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

DavidSalvador8100 — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:52:21 GMT

stan_the_man wrote:
iamwhoiam wrote:
The rules exclude in ground pools. There is a property I am looking at that has a pool in the very back of the yard that is fenced in and covered and has not been used for years. I have absolutely no intention of repairing it for use.

The house is perfect for us. It is outdated but there is plenty of space and the house is sound. The issue is the pool.

The rules state that removing before or after closing is unacceptable. Is there a way around this? Filling it in? Can an exception be made?

There are slim pickings in my area for homes so unless something new pops up in the next 2 months, I am SOL.
OP, it appears that the USDA doen't have a no pool rule. It looks like you just have to jump through a few more hoops because they won't count the value of the pool in the appraisal -- which might disqualify from using a USDA loan, depending on how much you want to borrow versus the value of the property.

"In-ground swimming pools. The loan, not including RD fee, is limited to the appraised value WITHOUT the pool. The FHA appraiser must justify value 'as is' AND a value as if the property had no pool. The value of the pool must be established and justified."

Certain two facts on this post unequivocally the best we have all had. I'm totally agree with you.You'r 100% good here that It looks like you just have to jump through a few more hoops because they won't count the value of the pool in the appraisal.It is based on how much you want to gain access to in comparison to the value of the property.

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

germaine47 — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 00:41:38 GMT

I agree with the no added value scenario. My original contract included wall mounted TV, Front Loaded Washer and Dryer and all kitchen appliances. MB came back and stated that "all those items had to be deleted (mark through on the contract) for no added value. I was devastated because the Sellers then had no obligation to leave those items within the home. However, the Sellers was awesome and left all the items after the Closing. That is another reason why I avoided homes with swimming pools, good luck. I went USDA Guarantee, see if the Realtor can mark through or state the fact that the pool will have no added value and you and the Seller can sign off.

Re: USDA Direct and In ground swimming pools

germaine47 — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 00:44:24 GMT

I would of wanted my home without all the nice things the Sellers left, I felt that the UW was thinking along the lines of me being bribed to purchase home. I really needed a new washer and dryer anyway.