topic Beyond Frustrated!!! in Rebuilding Your Credit

Beyond Frustrated!!!

adoak — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:15:45 GMT

Since July 2012 I have been disputing two collection accounts on my credit report. The purported debt ($6K) is related to an old California lease (2007-2008). Second, two collection agencies are reporting the same debt to the CRAs. The collection agencies report virtually the same date of assignment and the same collection amounts, so there should be no argument the debt is one and the same. Third, according to California law, the statute of limitations on written lease contracts is four years. Since the statute of limitations has expired, both collection agencies are legally barred from attempting to collect the debt. Also, it is also unlawful under the FCRA, to have duplicate reporting of the same debt by two collection agencies. Beginning in July, I've sent three rounds of dispute letters to all parties, i.e. the two collection agencies, and the three CRAs. To no avail. The CRAs respond each time by sending me the results of the dispute investigation and saying they have validated the debt amounts thru the collection agencies. I am at my wits end. I have read and re-read the forums on these types of collection account. I believe I have done everything I could, documented it all via CMRRR etc. At the very least, since the statute of limitations has expired, the collection agencies should close the collection accounts and report a $0 balance. At best, they should DELETE the trade lines from my credit reports.

I attempted to buy a home a few months ago and these collection accounts related to this lease was a significant factor why my loan was not approved.

So my question is... what else can I do to get these trade lines deleted?!? Is this now a situation where I should hire an attorney to get this resolved?

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

GregB — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:41:27 GMT

SOL has nothing to do with a CA closing an account or changing the balance.

If they sue you, then you may use SOL as a defense in court. If it gets to that point, make sure you do lots of research on how SOL applies and which laws apply.

You might want to determine who actually owns the debt and then work on a Pay For Delete.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

adoak — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:58:06 GMT

If the SOL has expired, how can the CA still attempt to collect the debt? The 2 collection accounts were reported in August 2008 and they would be otherwise scheduled to drop off my credit report in August 2015. Since July, I've spent HOURS trying to determine who actually owns the debt. I started by calling the apartment building. The issue is that since 2008 the property manager of this apartment building in Los Angeles has changed at lease THREE times. They have never sued me. They have never entered a judgment of any kind. Again, the SOL expired a few months ago. I have done at least three rounds of letters to the CAs and CRAs, beginning with a DV letter via CMRRR. I have not submitted a PFD or PIF letter because frankly I do not have $6K to toss to the wind.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

bahbahd — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:32:25 GMT

Sorry to tell you this. SOL has nothing to do with debt absolvement or barring collection attempts for a debt. Debts don't magically go away with time. What a SOL does is time bar taking you to court to sue, receive a judgement, etc.

A statute of limitations is an enactment in a common law legal system that sets the maximum time after an event that legal proceedings based on that event may be initiated. In civil law systems, similar provisions are typically part of the civil code or criminal code and are often known collectively as periods of prescription.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_limitations

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

adoak — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:37:22 GMT

If the SOL is time bar from CA taking me to court, to sue or to enter a judgment, then obviously the 2 collection agencies have no legal recourse to get me to pay the $6K. Why would I be motivated to do a PFD? I refuse to believe my only option is to wait until August 2015 until these 2 collection accounts drop off my credit report. What else can I do?

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

bahbahd — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:56:56 GMT

adoak wrote:
If the SOL is time bar from CA taking me to court, to sue or to enter a judgment, then obviously the 2 collection agencies have no legal recourse to get me to pay the $6K. Why would I be motivated to do a PFD? I refuse to believe my only option is to wait until August 2015 until these 2 collection accounts drop off my credit report. What else can I do?

Q: "Why would I be motivated to do a PFD?"

A: because "my only option is to wait until August 2015 until these 2 collection accounts drop off my credit report"

A collection agency does not have to accept a PFD. Once paid, they should reflect Paid $0 balance, but will still remain as derogatory accounts. This is not optimal but might not have prevented you from getting a mortgage. As a side note, these two CA should not be reporting the same debt. Have you explicitly stated that there is multiple reportings of the same account in debt validation letters? I would DV again and highlight their lack of response to first communication attempts, the highlight the multiple reporting again, outline what they have violated in the FDCPA and FCRA, demand that they need to contact the OC a get proof of the debt they are trying to collect, furnish all of that information to you. If they do not, explain to them that you will be reporting them to the FTC and California AG office and may possibly sue for damages incurred while unable to obtain a mortgage. I would be very careful, informed and willing to proceed before I threatened to sue.

I would use a better tone than you started this thread off with. I understand you are frustrated, but you are rather incorrect in your possible obligation to this debt.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.shtm

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

Shogun — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:55:54 GMT

Hello and welcome to the forums.

Perhaps I can help clear some of this up for you. You refer to the SOL, yes this refers to the time period in which a creditor can take you to court and get a judgement on you. That is pretty much all it does. The SOL has nothing however to do with the time period in which the debt may be posted to your credit report. This is the CRTP or Credit Report Time Period. This is generally 7 years + 180 days from the DOFD (Date of First Delinquincy), or when the debt went bad and was never caught back up. The SOL and the CRTP clocks are both started by the DOFD. So if the SOL of your state is 4 years and the CRTP is 7 1/2 years you can now see the difference.

Also to note that neither the SOL nor the CRTP expiring means the debt is gone. It is still there, they can still try and collect it. A debt is never gone until it is paid and settled. So after the SOL is expired, they can't sue you, after the CRTP is expired, they can't post to your CR. But they can still contact you for the debt.

Hope this has cleared it up some for you.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

adoak — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:21:17 GMT

Absolutely. I have sent 3 rounds of DV letters via CMRRR since July and each instance I've outlined that the two CAs have violated FDCPA and FCRA due to the same collection being reported multiple times.

Only one of the two CAs has responded to my DV by providing me with what is purportedly proof of the $6K debt. I wrote back to that CA and explained that I properly terminated my lease by giving the required 30-day written notice and that I do not owe any outstanding rent. This high rise apartment building changed property managers at least 3 times since 2008 so there's been a bit of confusion over who the OC is. I think I've finally figured out who the OC is and I've calling their corporate office multiple times. Each phone call is an exercise in futility. When I call OC, I an connected to a main switchboard that sends me into a circular series of records from which I can never navigate to get to speak with a LIVE person.

FYI, the 2 CAs are Corporate Trust Recovery and Kimball Tirey & St. John LLC. Each CA reports the same DOFD, the same date of assignment, and exact same collection amount on my credit report. BTW, these are the only two collection accounts on my credit report and in total it appears that I have collections in the amount of $12K!

The multiple reporting violation by the two CA has been completely ignored by Equifax, TransUnion and Experian when I point this out to them via DV via CMRRR. I would have expected that due to the violation, at least one of the CA would have to drop off. Not the case. They both continue to repport. The CRAs have done nothing to enforce FDCPA and FCRA.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

Shogun — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:35:42 GMT

I think you are going down the road now. A direct dispute with the OC as to the whether the account is valid or not is your best course of action. If you were to prove you did not owe the debt in the first place, this would mandate the removal of all the TLs to your CR.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

bahbahd — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:40:39 GMT

Yes, have you sent at letter to the OC? If not do that. If they don't respond then I would suggest that it is time to send copies of all these communications and return receipts with a complaint letter to your AG office, the FTC and the BBB just for good measure.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

GregB — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 19:48:44 GMT

adoak wrote:
If the SOL is time bar from CA taking me to court, to sue or to enter a judgment, then obviously the 2 collection agencies have no legal recourse to get me to pay the $6K. Why would I be motivated to do a PFD? I refuse to believe my only option is to wait until August 2015 until these 2 collection accounts drop off my credit report. What else can I do?

If or when they take you to court, you can make your argument to the judge about which part of the SOL statutes apply to your case and how they apply. Their attorney will probably be prepared to explain to the judge why SOL has not tolled. Make the assumption that SOL has tolled at x years at your peril. The judge will make a ruling.

Regardless, it doesn't change what is on your reports or stop the CA from trying to collect.

Edited to add:

I would suggest that you work on determining which CA actually owns the account and then offer a PFD to the one that actually owns the debt. If you are sure that you didn't owe the debt in the first place, then another option presents itself. You could sue the OC. You could make sure you have all the proof for your case and consult an attorney.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

adoak — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 21:10:44 GMT

An update on this fiasco... it has taken since November for me to find a reputable consumer rights attorney in Los Angeles to help me with this situation. After speaking with this attorney at some length, it has boiled down to my ability to obtain a copy of the original lease. I've spent numerous hours on the phone (long distance) trying to connect with original creditor. I've called several offices of the original creditor, all to no avail. It has proven to be virtually impossible to get a copy of my old lease from 2007. The attorney needs to review the original lease to determine the merits of my case. That said, I'm really convinced that if I can't get a copy of my original lease, then neither can the two collection agencies that are attempting to collect on the same debt! The attorney also requested that I send him a copy of my credit report that shows the 2 collection agencies trying to collect on the same debt. He was going to talk with a partner to see what can be done about this, at least to get one CA off my credit report. So... folks... it's not enough to simply mail letters to CAs and CRAs. Four rounds of letters to CAs and CRAs since July have done nothing to deal with the two collection agencies attempting to collect on the same debt no matter how often I cite FDCPA and FCRA etc. These 2 collection accounts are the only derogatory items left on my credit report. So... process continues... and I'm still beyond frustrated.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

annielorie — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 21:21:47 GMT

the CA can report for 7 years plus 180 days that is the credit report time period. If you say that both of these ca's are trying to collect the same debt they cannot, I believe you would have reason for suit againstat least one of them and the CRA's for any damages to you due to the false reporting. I believe you need robert eg on this for the legal terminology.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

KnewBee — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 01:02:12 GMT

I don't know how much my post will help, but because I can empathize with your extreme frustration level having been there several times myself I felt compelled to respond.

1. Don't give up, I believe that in this situation you will make progress if you keep at but it will be a lot of work and time consuming as you have already seen.

2. You have several different issues going on. I have had some real complex problems too and have found this forum works best when you break each issue down to one simpler issue and do one post on that vs trying to address all issues in a single thread. I.E.. Do a new post solely about the collection being inaccurate in the first place., do a separate post, in regards to how to address two duplicate collections both showing balance, do a separate post about what to do when several letters have failed to resolve a clear inaccuracy. I hope this makes sense.

3. An earlier poster had recommended BBB, FTC, AG complaints. Have you tried those yet? I have read many success stories here and elsewhere about those working when several rounds of initial letters have failed.

4. Make sure your lawyer has specific knowledge in this area or find one that does. I have several relatives that are lawyers, but they are absolutely clueless on collection issues because one is an immigration lawyer, one is an employment lawer, etc. Law is so broad it is important to have one that really knows the specific issue and laws in detail.

I could go on and on with other suggestions, but I hope the above tips are at least enough to start moving you towards progress on this.

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

adoak — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 20:56:58 GMT

An update on my situation...

As of December 2012, I have done 5 rounds of dispute letters since July 2012 to contest the validity of the debt, and disputing that two collection agencies are trying to collect on the same debt.

I've also consulted with an attorney in California who handles these types of disputes. He said that without a copy of my original lease, he can't ascertain the merits of the case and can't take on the case. To try to get a copy of my original lease I've called the management office of the building that I used to live in. Since the lease dates back to 2007 and this apartment building has changed property management companies at least 3 times, no one can help me obtain a copy of my original lease.

I've called the property management company in place at the time that I leased an apartment in this building in Los Angles and I have yet to be able to connect with the appropriate individual that can address this issue with me. No one at the property management company has been able to refer me to an individual or department that places people into collections for terminating a lease early.

I' debating whether to do a 6th round of dispute letters this month. This has all been so draining and time consumming.

The attorney that I consulted suggested that I try to sue these collection agencies directly myself instead of hiring a lawyer. The thing is, I don't know where to start!

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

montana586 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:04:50 GMT

Have u filed the complaints with the BBB FTC and AG as others have suggested?

Re: Beyond Frustrated!!!

guiness56 — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 02:59:40 GMT

adoak wrote:
Since July 2012 I have been disputing two collection accounts on my credit report. The purported debt ($6K) is related to an old California lease (2007-2008). Second, two collection agencies are reporting the same debt to the CRAs. The collection agencies report virtually the same date of assignment and the same collection amounts, so there should be no argument the debt is one and the same. Third, according to California law, the statute of limitations on written lease contracts is four years. Since the statute of limitations has expired, both collection agencies are legally barred from attempting to collect the debt. That is not what the SOL is for. There are only 2 states that say when the SOL has expired, the debt is extingquished. California is not one of them. The debt can be pursued forever.

Also, it is also unlawful under the FCRA, to have duplicate reporting of the same debt by two collection agencies. It is not unlawful to have 2 collections reported for the same debt. It is unlawful for 2 collection agencies to pursue collection activity ie sending dunning notices, calling etc.
Beginning in July, I've sent three rounds of dispute letters to all parties, i.e. the two collection agencies, and the three CRAs. To no avail. The CRAs respond each time by sending me the results of the dispute investigation and saying they have validated the debt amounts thru the collection agencies. I am at my wits end. I have read and re-read the forums on these types of collection account. I believe I have done everything I could, documented it all via CMRRR etc. At the very least, since the statute of limitations has expired, the collection agencies should close the collection accounts and report a $0 balance. At best, they should DELETE the trade lines from my credit reports.

I attempted to buy a home a few months ago and these collection accounts related to this lease was a significant factor why my loan was not approved.

So my question is... what else can I do to get these trade lines deleted?!? Is this now a situation where I should hire an attorney to get this resolved?