topic Re: Child Support Woes in SmorgasBoard

Child Support Woes

Booner72 — Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:13:50 GMT

Anyone who has read some of my posts knows I have deep resentment that DH has to pay child support to his 20 year old daughter who lives across the country and we don't even see. She turned 18 and it stopped, but then 8 months later she was able to "restart" it by saying she was in college. The deal is we get to know grades, class schedule, credits etc. But the school in her state refuses to tell us anything even though she signed a Release of Info saying her dad could have that info.

We objected in August and 2 weeks later the division of child support mails us a letter that she is allowed to take normal breaks and support will continue. They didn't even BOTHER to investigate her school status.

So in Dec. he called again to check her school status, and same thing, they wouldn't tell him anything. This time, I'm about to file a grievance w/ the div. of child support, but the grievance form says to talk to a supervisor first. So I do this last month. She says "We don't even take objections in summer months bc school isn't open."

I say that school HAS started in Florida and it is up to DIV of CS to PROVE TO US SHE IS IN SCHOOL, expletive expletive. So they send her the objection and she had 30 days to reply. This was 12/9/11. So 1/9/12 when we still haven't heard I'm starting to call the Division again saying WTH, suspend it already! She said the daughter had until yesterday, that they will go through the mail and update the system to suspend, and I should be able to log on today and see that the status has been changed from Active to Suspend "If our system is working." She also said, and I quote "I won't let this one fall through the cracks AGAIN." She also says, "you know, if we get something over the weekend, we'll have to look into it." Why are they bending over backassward for that daughter to send in her side of things? The 30 day mark ended 1/9/12!!!!!!!!

So this morning I log on and guess what? Still says ACTIVE. I'm SURE that the daughter hasn't sent in the paperwork bc she has to send them a copy of the CMRRR receipt that she sent US the forms, which she hasn't.

So now I'm furious that they didn't suspend it yesterday for one, and am wondering if I should go ahead and file that grievance. I want them to credit DH from September - January for the support he paid when our objection went completely ignored. It's on THEM and HER to prove her school status and both failed. Who knows what a grievance will even do but bring attention on our case, right? he does owe arrears from years back when he was living w/ the mother until the daughter turned 3 years old, and then of course the mother files and child support backdates, and DH doesn't do a darn thing about it until I come into the picture years later and we do a modification and get the amt reduced almost 300 dollars. Why do guys just let this crap go like that?????

I'm so furious right now! HER state doesn't order support past 19, but of course OUR state does. I wish we were in South Dakota who ruled that it is unconstitutional to force a parent to pay support to an ADULT. Though New York can go past 23 so at least we aren't there.

I'm having a seriously hard time not letting this ruin my weekend!

Thanks for reading.

Re: Child Support Woes

drkaje — Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:25:05 GMT

Please don't take this the wrong way but: You knew this would be an issue when marrying him. Why let it upset you now? Carrying around resentment is never a good idea, IMO. Is it the money? Do you feel it takes attention away from you? Does she represent old drama with the Ex, in your mind? Is it a control thing? Etc... I recall you posting about this before and getting the new home under the radar before the Ex could find out and ask for more CS. I'm in New York. Things can be pretty brutal, LOL! There are other exceptions to the CS guidelines and even ways to break the cap.

Re: Child Support Woes

Booner72 — Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:54:51 GMT

It's because she is twenty years old and is holding us hostage.

(thank you for responding!)

Edited to add: My brother told me a few weeks ago that the Buddhists say 'would you rather be right, or happy?' ---- In this case, even though it's not good for me, I'm choosing being right!

Re: Child Support Woes

IOBA — Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:00:30 GMT

My suggestions would be

* file the grievance with CS

* file a complaint with the BBB - CS has an obligation to provide proof that they have the right to collect.

* go to court and change the court order. No one has provided proof of actively attending school. And you want a limit on how long this game of going to school can be played/paid. Suggest a limit of 8 semesters total?

Re: Child Support Woes

drkaje — Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:07:17 GMT

The laws basically exist to make sure previous responsibilities are met before people move on when things end up going wrong. Also, with a degree she'll be more employable.... in theory, LOL! If in his shoes, I wouldn't make any budgetary plans for that money until there were no-longer any legal obligation to hand it over. "Right. or happy" are states of mind. Your brother has a twisted sense of humor. You knew, at least intellectually, that marriage wouldn't really affect certain areas of his life no matter what. You should probably choose happiness and be thankful she hasn't moved in, yet! :) $300/month is a lot cheaper than having her move in. My kids are here this weekend. They've had me in the kitchen since the initial post. I love cooking so it's no big deal!!

Re: Child Support Woes

Booner72 — Sun, 15 Jan 2012 01:11:00 GMT

IOBA wrote:
My suggestions would be

* file the grievance with CS
* file a complaint with the BBB - CS has an obligation to provide proof that they have the right to collect.
* go to court and change the court order. No one has provided proof of actively attending school. And you want a limit on how long this game of going to school can be played/paid. Suggest a limit of 8 semesters total?

Yes, I will do the grievance. Not sure what I would BBB about though. The same as the grievance? The law in OR says that she can get "child" support until age 21, there is no negotiating how many semesters, etc. It USED to be when this first started, that the "child" couldn't turn it off and on - they went or they didn't. Things changed, though. Even if it does go into suspension. if she sends in the proof, they restart it. So we're basically screwed until next December.

Regarding her moving in, that is never going to happen. EVER. My husband made that very clear to her when she first started this that he doesn't approve of it, she should have talked to him first, he would have helped her w/ college w/o the state being involved, and if she proceeded to continue it would be a cold day in hell before he would dole out any help to her again. It is our opinion that she chose money over family, and for only 300 bucks!

Maybe I shoulda put this post in the "relationships and money" section. This is certainly a topic for that section!

Re: Child Support Woes

LilMirth — Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:55:07 GMT

Booner72 wrote:
IOBA wrote:
My suggestions would be

* file the grievance with CS
* file a complaint with the BBB - CS has an obligation to provide proof that they have the right to collect.
* go to court and change the court order. No one has provided proof of actively attending school. And you want a limit on how long this game of going to school can be played/paid. Suggest a limit of 8 semesters total?
Yes, I will do the grievance. Not sure what I would BBB about though. The same as the grievance? The law in OR says that she can get "child" support until age 21, there is no negotiating how many semesters, etc. It USED to be when this first started, that the "child" couldn't turn it off and on - they went or they didn't. Things changed, though. Even if it does go into suspension. if she sends in the proof, they restart it. So we're basically screwed until next December.

Regarding her moving in, that is never going to happen. EVER. My husband made that very clear to her when she first started this that he doesn't approve of it, she should have talked to him first, he would have helped her w/ college w/o the state being involved, and if she proceeded to continue it would be a cold day in hell before he would dole out any help to her again. It is our opinion that she chose money over family, and for only 300 bucks!

Maybe I shoulda put this post in the "relationships and money" section. This is certainly a topic for that section!

Hi Booner!

Are you doubting that your step-daughter is in college? Given that this is "child support" and not the voluntary "parental merit scholarship", why are you attempting to see her grades, and obtain information from her school? Don't get me wrong, I understand that she should still be in college to be eligible for *child support*, but what's led you to believe that she ISN'T? And, presuming that she is still in school, isn't it just as possible that she runs into the same "run-around" that you get when you deal with the child support people? And, if/when she provides the proof to the CS verification people... then what?

Here's what troubles me... On the one hand, it's yours and your DH's opinion that she chose money over family. On the other hand, isn't that what you're doing to by saying that her pursuit of child support (which she must have been deemed entitled to, and you even mentioned that DH owed back child support) would preclude you from ever "helping" her again? Does the money, doled out now, mean more than a natural parent/child relationship?

A 20 year old is, without a doubt, legally an adult. But, you'd be hard-pressed to find one who is (especially in this day and age, and especially if they're enrolled in the exceedingly expensive post-secondary educational rat race) completely, financially independent. I don't hold anyone else to my standards of when a child is expected to be out of the proverbial nest, and off the literal payroll (in very general terms, I consider that time to be sometime after 21 years of age, and very probably upwards 24 with the rising cost of a college education, and specialization). My point (I really do have one, LOL) is that, the issue of child support, whether it stays in your pocket, is freely given, or forcibly extracted should never, ever... EVER come between a parent and their child (minors or young adults). Speaking from a maternal POV, I'd find it very disturbing if my DH held a grudge against our child(ren) over financially supporting them when it is still common, reasonable, and acceptable for a parent to support their child. I just hope, for all of your sakes, that this doesn't taint what your DH & his daughter should have together. That'd be a loss that you'd be hard-pressed to quantify-- a tragedy really, that can't be measured in dollars & cents.

Re: Child Support Woes

drkaje — Sun, 15 Jan 2012 14:08:52 GMT

As a father, I'd be more worried about not seeing the kid than $300. Years ago, my cousin had a kid and was required to sue her parents for CS in order to qualify for certain benefits. Booner's our girl but "holding us hostage" sounds/reads a bit extreme (from her) there are likely other issues leading up to these bad feelings she hasn't shared.

Re: Child Support Woes

Booner72 — Sun, 15 Jan 2012 17:19:19 GMT

LilMirth wrote:
Booner72 wrote:
IOBA wrote:
My suggestions would be

* file the grievance with CS
* file a complaint with the BBB - CS has an obligation to provide proof that they have the right to collect.
* go to court and change the court order. No one has provided proof of actively attending school. And you want a limit on how long this game of going to school can be played/paid. Suggest a limit of 8 semesters total?
Yes, I will do the grievance. Not sure what I would BBB about though. The same as the grievance? The law in OR says that she can get "child" support until age 21, there is no negotiating how many semesters, etc. It USED to be when this first started, that the "child" couldn't turn it off and on - they went or they didn't. Things changed, though. Even if it does go into suspension. if she sends in the proof, they restart it. So we're basically screwed until next December.

Regarding her moving in, that is never going to happen. EVER. My husband made that very clear to her when she first started this that he doesn't approve of it, she should have talked to him first, he would have helped her w/ college w/o the state being involved, and if she proceeded to continue it would be a cold day in hell before he would dole out any help to her again. It is our opinion that she chose money over family, and for only 300 bucks!

Maybe I shoulda put this post in the "relationships and money" section. This is certainly a topic for that section!
Hi Booner!

Are you doubting that your step-daughter is in college? Given that this is "child support" and not the voluntary "parental merit scholarship", why are you attempting to see her grades, and obtain information from her school? Don't get me wrong, I understand that she should still be in college to be eligible for *child support*, but what's led you to believe that she ISN'T? And, presuming that she is still in school, isn't it just as possible that she runs into the same "run-around" that you get when you deal with the child support people? And, if/when she provides the proof to the CS verification people... then what?   Thank you for your words and thoughts.

I have no single idea if she is still in college or not. None of us do. her mom literally stole her away in the middle of the night when she was in the 3rd grade taking her across the country. We saw her regularly until some time ago we bought the ticket and then she decided she didn't want to come, to spend the summer w/ her friends. So we were out the ticket and the visit, and of course her mom just laughed about it. We SHOULD have gotten a visitation agreement years ago, but didn't.

She's not getting any runaround. All she has to do is fax in a few forms and they will reinstate it for her. Like I said originally, the bend over backwards for the kids in this system.

Here's what troubles me... On the one hand, it's yours and your DH's opinion that she chose money over family. On the other hand, isn't that what you're doing to by saying that her pursuit of child support (which she must have been deemed entitled to, and you even mentioned that DH owed back child support) would preclude you from ever "helping" her again? Does the money, doled out now, mean more than a natural parent/child relationship?   Bc of the longstanding hellish fights w/ her mother over the years, I've backed out of any relationship with both of them, though she blames me that her dad isn't speaking to her at the moment. i know it sounds HORRIBLE, but he's been screwed so many times by his ex (And now he sees that his daughter is screwing him). I have let them both know a million times that if they want a relationship, FINE. If he wants to go there or her to come here FINE. He has his very own phone and it's not like she has to go to me to talk to him (Which is how she sees it ).   As I said, he wanted to help her through college. He would have sent her 300 or more a month. But bc she went behind his back, so to speak, and forced it, he's pissed. Are we really the only ones who see it this way?

The back child support is from the inititial order - when the mom got the order, she of course lied and was able to get it backdated for 3 years at almost 500 a month. DH was young and dumb and didn't fight that and now it's too late. He lived with them during that time. He put his ex through dental assistant school. He and his family took care of that child. He has NEVER MISSED A PAYMENT since I have been w/ him over 12 years. I will also add that 1/2 the arrears (2K) goes to the state for her mom being on welfare.

I can tell you one thing. I would never have done that to my dad. EVER. I moved out the day I graduated HS and the only help my dad has given is what he has chosen to do on his own terms.

A 20 year old is, without a doubt, legally an adult. But, you'd be hard-pressed to find one who is (especially in this day and age, and especially if they're enrolled in the exceedingly expensive post-secondary educational rat race) completely, financially independent. I don't hold anyone else to my standards of when a child is expected to be out of the proverbial nest, and off the literal payroll (in very general terms, I consider that time to be sometime after 21 years of age, and very probably upwards 24 with the rising cost of a college education, and specialization). My point (I really do have one, LOL) is that, the issue of child support, whether it stays in your pocket, is freely given, or forcibly extracted should never, ever... EVER come between a parent and their child (minors or young adults). Speaking from a maternal POV, I'd find it very disturbing if my DH held a grudge against our child(ren) over financially supporting them when it is still common, reasonable, and acceptable for a parent to support their child. I just hope, for all of your sakes, that this doesn't taint what your DH & his daughter should have together. That'd be a loss that you'd be hard-pressed to quantify-- a tragedy really, that can't be measured in dollars & cents. yes, I realize it is a tragedy. But there have been many many tragedies in this entire situation, so one more really isn't going to make that much difference. We had such great family times when she was younger, I love her, I really do. I'm just so resentful - in my mind (And DH) she has turned into her mother - it's all about money. We just want "out" of this situation where our hands are tied and they get to have power over us.    She can't just ignore us, not visit, not call, never send pictures, NOTHING, but expect money, (well I guess she can).....and expect that to be okay with us.

BTW - We became guardians of my half brother when he was 3 - my mom couldn't take care of him for a multitude of reasons. It's been 10 years now. Never got a dime of child support from my mom (nothing to get) and his biological dad is some loser on SSI   (Not SSD where the child gets benefits, too).    The only thing we get is the state health plan, but he's on my health insurance so that really doesn't do us much good, 5 bucks here and there for copayments.

My point being: We are not heartless and cruel children haters. DH loves him as if he were his own son, never has made one single comment ever about how taking him in has affected us, doesn't resent the expenses, time, anything. It was the right thing to do at the time and we did it. We did it to save his life and out of love.

Re: Child Support Woes

Booner72 — Sun, 15 Jan 2012 17:22:21 GMT

drkaje wrote:
As a father, I'd be more worried about not seeing the kid than $300. Years ago, my cousin had a kid and was required to sue her parents for CS in order to qualify for certain benefits. Booner's our girl but "holding us hostage" sounds/reads a bit extreme (from her) there are likely other issues leading up to these bad feelings she hasn't shared.

You're so sweet. I think my reply to lilmirth might give some insight into all the bad feelings. yes, it kills DH. He has to leave the room during sappy father/daugher movies, etc. Gets depressed on Father's day, birthday, xmas when not even a card comes. it's hard on him. His heart broke when she was taken away back in the day. I think he kind of closed up when that happened to help his heart not feel so much pain. But she's 20 - what can you do? If she doesn't want a relationship, then she is, after all, an "adult".

Re: Child Support Woes

Mustanglvr2006 — Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:19:57 GMT

I am not a Father, but I can feel his and your pain just by reading your posts Booner, especially your last reply. I did not talk to my Father for 8 years and I know it killed him, and it hurt me as well, but I was stubborn and felt I was right (long story) but we are in contact again, and we talk often, I missed my Dad and was so scared that if he were to die that I would have never had the chance to tell him that I DID and DO Love him, and I make sure to tell him that every time we talk or see each other now.

I am not writing this reply to give you any advice, I'm writing this reply to just let you know, I understand where you are coming from and it saddens me deeply to read this posting from you, no I do not know you, but, that does not stop me from feeling your pain.

I truly want to offer my Blessings to you, your husband and his daughter, hopefully when she grows up, she will realize the mistake she has made, as you said, your DH would have gladly helped her had she talked to him first, but instead she went behind his back, and I do not blame you or your DH one bit for being pissed off about this situation.

Her real Mother sounds like a real winner, let's just hope the daughter does not turn out like her in the long run.

God Bless all of you.

Re: Child Support Woes

IOBA — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 02:10:23 GMT

Another suggestion - (maybe I said this already) is to go to court and get a limit put on the number of semester DH has to pay child support. Your cout order will over ride OR state. From what I have read, you are not in the same state as daughter/x.

If there is a court order with an end date, the support will stop. Period.

And if DH gets it done in the state he lives in, then if the daughter/x want to challenge it, they would need to do it in HIS state or request a change in venue.

I think any judge would be somewhat sympathic to what could be a lifelong bleed on the bank account.

Re: Child Support Woes

Booner72 — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:26:27 GMT

Well, it suspended. They retro'd that to the first of January. I should be so happy but now i'm just anxious about when she will restart it between now and Dec, her 21st birthday.

IOBA: We dont have the money to go to court. That'd take a lawyer. Cheaper to just pay it through. OAR 107.108 says it goes til they're 21 if they are attending 1/2 time and making satisfactory grades. That's it.

Re: Child Support Woes

GregB — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:50:11 GMT

I don't know that you necessarily need a lawyer. If the state of marriage/divorce was OR, then you could drag the ex back. She either has to return or try to plead her case by phone. That won't work out very well if the judge orders a parenting class and visit with family court services. If she is as worthless as it seems, the judge will figure that out pretty quickly.

They are using ridiculous family court procedures against you so I would let them have it.

Re: Child Support Woes

IOBA — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 03:32:50 GMT

Booner72 - Congratulations! It IS good news!

If you can, open up a separate bank account, maybe a savings account, and start putting $300 a month into the account each month. That way if it is reactivated, then it wont' hurt you so much.

I am just thinking about this for a moment....if the CSE office suspended the claim, then they weren't satisfied with the claim. (Cue - the music.) Hhmmm...might take some work for daughter to get it reactivated. I mean, they might want to see something BEFORE they reactivate it instead of just taking her word for it. Maybe?

And there is an end date to this - when she turns 21. Yeah!

Re: Child Support Woes

Booner72 — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 03:33:03 GMT

OK, GregB. Thanks for the validation that this is the most ludicrous thing ever.

I'm just going to stay positive and be happy that today we're not being extorted. if she starts her games up again, I'll be PMing you for help.

Re: Child Support Woes

Booner72 — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:20:43 GMT

IOBA wrote:
Booner72 - Congratulations! It IS good news!

If you can, open up a separate bank account, maybe a savings account, and start putting $300 a month into the account each month. That way if it is reactivated, then it wont' hurt you so much.

I am just thinking about this for a moment....if the CSE office suspended the claim, then they weren't satisfied with the claim. (Cue - the music.) Hhmmm...might take some work for daughter to get it reactivated. I mean, they might want to see something BEFORE they reactivate it instead of just taking her word for it. Maybe?

And there is an end date to this - when she turns 21. Yeah!

All she has to do to restart is send them confirmation from the school that she is attending at least half time w/ satisfactory grades. She has to send us a copy of that too. She has to send us a "release of information" so we can contact the school to check her status. Problem w/ that is Florida doesn't recognize Oregon's forms, so they don't tell us anything.

Re: Child Support Woes

IOBA — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:19:03 GMT

Big smile now....you said she has to provide confirmation of attending school at least part time with satisfactory grades. Well, she cant' get those grades on the first day of school. She'd need to be at least midterm, right?

You know what school she was attending, right? Call them up and ask them what they would require to release the information you. If it's a certain form, then ask for serveral copies to be mailed to you. Once you have them, keep at least one copy for you and send the other copy to the daughter, should she claim to be in school again.

WIll CSE send you a copy of what they have reiceved? You should be able to see it....

Think about opening up a seperate account to put $300 a month into, just in case this comes back. And if it idoesn't, on her 21st bday, you will have a nice little emergency fund built up.

Re: Child Support Woes

frogfan12 — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:31:33 GMT

I know this thread has been idle for a few days but as a semi-recent college grad I just wanted to share something with you guys. All colleges in the U.S. are required to keep student information private. College personnel can't even release student grades or other information. It's federal law. Most college students are 18+ so they aren't obligated to share information with parents like a K-12 institution would be. Just a heads up.

Re: Child Support Woes

IOBA — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 16:27:26 GMT

frogfan12 - Thanks for sharing that. In Booners case, the adult child wants additional child support. The condition for additional child support is that the adult child provide proof that she is in college and making passing grades. Two ways to accomplish that - the adult child provide it or she signs a waiver so the school will release the information to Booner & DH & CSE.

The adult child - the student - has all of the power in what information is released and shared. In this case, if she wants child support, then she has to provide the information. Her word alone is not enough to keep the gravy train paying.

In my situation - although I pay the tuition for my kids, I do not see their report cards, nor can I verify their status in school. One kid chooses to share his grades verbally. The other does not. In our case, we set the boundaries - 4 yrs of school/living expenses. That's it. IF they screw it up and fail a class - oh well. Doesn't matter if they tell me or not - there is x amount of money period.