Female Car Buyers

[laz98]

don't want to get caught up in this heated little thread.....just a quick question:

usmc, do you have a better source of information to recommend?  it doesn't seem like you are fond of any of the ones mentioned.

[Anonymous]

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@laz98 wrote:

don't want to get caught up in this heated little thread.....just a quick question:

usmc, do you have a better source of information to recommend?  it doesn't seem like you are fond of any of the ones mentioned.

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it depends on what car you are buying and how you are buying it. I believe in Costco buyer program and I believe in the USAA program. If you are buying a Brand vehicle, new, under one of their employee programs you are doing well too-you get that price.

Also many dealerships offer "internet pricing" that is very attractive, and you can use the email they send you with the quote to try to negotiate lower with another dealership in the brand.

And thats one of the failings of "truecar" they make no distinction between how the sales price is found, and their sample range is small.

In my Dealership, due to its location with past and present Ford Plants, almost 80 percent of all new car sales were sold under a Ford Plan. 50%+ were employee/retiree (A or Z plan)which gives the buyer a below invoice price, usually thousands of dollars, before including rebates. (Ford cuts a check to the dealership after the sale to make up the profit/commission) Friends and Family (X-Plan) is usually a few dollars plus or minus invoice. only 20% were retail unplan sales-and no one pays MSRP.

So if my dealership was one that reported to "truecar" the aggregate numbers they give will be that most people pay near or significantly below invoice-which is true- but unless you are a Ford Employee does not relate to you. So then going into a dealership then wanting below invoice as a common unaffiliated price is not a realistic approach. And you probably will be laughed at. I used to laugh at people who wanted A Plan without having a PIN who then got indignant when i explained I could not sell a truck a few thousand below invoice without a valid PIN.

They are all "tools" but you need to understand their limitations

[laz98]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@laz98 wrote:

don't want to get caught up in this heated little thread.....just a quick question:

usmc, do you have a better source of information to recommend?  it doesn't seem like you are fond of any of the ones mentioned.

---

it depends on what car you are buying and how you are buying it. I believe in Costco buyer program and I believe in the USAA program. If you are buying a Brand vehicle, new, under one of their employee programs you are doing well too-you get that price.

And thats one of the failings of "truecar" they make no distinction between how the sales price is found, and their sample range is small.

In my Dealership, due to its location with past and present Ford Plants, almost 80 percent of all new car sales were sold under a Ford Plan. 50%+ were employee/retiree (A or Z plan)which gives the buyer a below invoice price, usually thousands of dollars, before including rebates. (Ford cuts a check to the dealership after the sale to make up the profit/commission) Friends and Family (X-Plan) is usually a few dollars plus or minus invoice. only 20% were retail unplan sales-and no one pays MSRP.

So if my dealership was one that reported to "truecar" the aggregate numbers they give will be that most people pay near or significantly below invoice-which is true- but unless you are a Ford Employee does not relate to you. So then going into a dealership then wanting below invoice as a common unaffiliated price is not a realistic approach. And you probably will be laughed at. I used to laugh at people who wanted A Plan without having a PIN who then got indignant when i explained I could not sell a truck a few thousand below invoice without a valid PIN.

They are all "tools" but you need to understand their limitations

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thanks for your response!  we want to buy a 2011 ford escape.  we don't have a costco membership, & my gf doesn't qualify for USAA car loans; limited membership.  but if i go through the pricing thing at USAA under my account, can i print that price certificate out & take it to the dealership?  or will they reject it because she is the one buying the car?  we will probably get financing through our CU or from Ford.  i have never bought a car, so forgive my ignorance.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@laz98 wrote:

don't want to get caught up in this heated little thread.....just a quick question:

usmc, do you have a better source of information to recommend?  it doesn't seem like you are fond of any of the ones mentioned.

---

it depends on what car you are buying and how you are buying it. I believe in Costco buyer program and I believe in the USAA program. If you are buying a Brand vehicle, new, under one of their employee programs you are doing well too-you get that price.

Also many dealerships offer "internet pricing" that is very attractive, and you can use the email they send you with the quote to try to negotiate lower with another dealership in the brand.

And thats one of the failings of "truecar" they make no distinction between how the sales price is found, and their sample range is small.

In my Dealership, due to its location with past and present Ford Plants, almost 80 percent of all new car sales were sold under a Ford Plan. 50%+ were employee/retiree (A or Z plan)which gives the buyer a below invoice price, usually thousands of dollars, before including rebates. (Ford cuts a check to the dealership after the sale to make up the profit/commission) Friends and Family (X-Plan) is usually a few dollars plus or minus invoice. only 20% were retail unplan sales-and no one pays MSRP.

So if my dealership was one that reported to "truecar" the aggregate numbers they give will be that most people pay near or significantly below invoice-which is true- but unless you are a Ford Employee does not relate to you. So then going into a dealership then wanting below invoice as a common unaffiliated price is not a realistic approach. And you probably will be laughed at. I used to laugh at people who wanted A Plan without having a PIN who then got indignant when i explained I could not sell a truck a few thousand below invoice without a valid PIN.

They are all "tools" but you need to understand their limitations

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USAA, American Express, Overstock Cars & a few others all use truecar data  http://www.zag.com/  I have never used Costco auto buying program, but from what I understand it is invoice + and doesn't really give you an idea of how much $ there is between invoice and actual dealer cost

[Anonymous]

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@laz98 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@laz98 wrote:

don't want to get caught up in this heated little thread.....just a quick question:

usmc, do you have a better source of information to recommend?  it doesn't seem like you are fond of any of the ones mentioned.

---

it depends on what car you are buying and how you are buying it. I believe in Costco buyer program and I believe in the USAA program. If you are buying a Brand vehicle, new, under one of their employee programs you are doing well too-you get that price.

And thats one of the failings of "truecar" they make no distinction between how the sales price is found, and their sample range is small.

In my Dealership, due to its location with past and present Ford Plants, almost 80 percent of all new car sales were sold under a Ford Plan. 50%+ were employee/retiree (A or Z plan)which gives the buyer a below invoice price, usually thousands of dollars, before including rebates. (Ford cuts a check to the dealership after the sale to make up the profit/commission) Friends and Family (X-Plan) is usually a few dollars plus or minus invoice. only 20% were retail unplan sales-and no one pays MSRP.

So if my dealership was one that reported to "truecar" the aggregate numbers they give will be that most people pay near or significantly below invoice-which is true- but unless you are a Ford Employee does not relate to you. So then going into a dealership then wanting below invoice as a common unaffiliated price is not a realistic approach. And you probably will be laughed at. I used to laugh at people who wanted A Plan without having a PIN who then got indignant when i explained I could not sell a truck a few thousand below invoice without a valid PIN.

They are all "tools" but you need to understand their limitations

---

thanks for your response!  we want to buy a 2011 ford escape.  we don't have a costco membership, & my gf doesn't qualify for USAA car loans; limited membership.  but if i go through the pricing thing at USAA under my account, can i print that price certificate out & take it to the dealership?  or will they reject it because she is the one buying the car?  we will probably get financing through our CU or from Ford.  i have never bought a car, so forgive my ignorance.

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Go to http://www.zag.com/ I'm sure you can find a program that doesn't require membership, or you can just go directly to http://www.truecar.com  The resultant prices are the same for all of them- I have tried them.

[laz98]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Go to http://www.zag.com/ I'm sure you can find a program that doesn't require membership, or you can just go directly to http://www.truecar.com  The resultant prices are the same for all of them- I have tried them.

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oh i see...then i guess it doesn't matter.  i'll just work on trying to figure out a fair price to pay.

[Anonymous]

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@laz98 wrote:

thanks for your response!  we want to buy a 2011 ford escape.  we don't have a costco membership, & my gf doesn't qualify for USAA car loans; limited membership.  but if i go through the pricing thing at USAA under my account, can i print that price certificate out & take it to the dealership?  or will they reject it because she is the one buying the car?  we will probably get financing through our CU or from Ford.  i have never bought a car, so forgive my ignorance.

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1- There is a high chance that you can secure a Ford X Plan from someone. From a family member or friend of family member. Also a LOT of employers give X plan pricing as they have a business relationship with Ford.

2- internet quotes from a dealership trend to be within a few hundred of invoice you can secure a few quotes and see. 

3 Second going  in with some kind of a quote see what they can do.

Contrary to popular statements most dealerships are simply not routinely selling under invoice to everyday customers.

[Anonymous]

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@laz98 wrote:

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oh i see...then i guess it doesn't matter.  i'll just work on trying to figure out a fair price to pay.

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Google: BLUE OVAL FORUM REQUEST X PLAN  then "FORD X PLAN PIN REQUESTS"

[Anonymous]

Hello, I just purchased a car last week and had a really good experience, b/c I purchased a car before I knew what to expect.  Also I did my budget and research on what I wanted and what I can afford before I went into purchase. 

[Anonymous]

First, I did not mean to turn this into a 'heated discussion' I actually thought it was civil and it was interesting to hear a car salesman's point of view.  Second, I have the utmost respect for people in sales, I did it myself for about 12 years (not cars, but commissioned technical sales) so I know it's tough.  I just think that the people who run car dealerships have developed this formula for selling cars that simply does not appeal to me.  I would gladly leave a few hundred extra dollars on the table if my local dealership would give honest answers, and if I could deal with ONE person in the dealership rather than getting 'turned' 3 or 4 times, and the interminably long waits while the floor manager 'considers' your offer, that's just high drama.   It just could be made so much more cleaner and more pleasant  if there was more transparency and less nonsense. 

I wrote my first post here because the topic was coincidental to my searching for a car.  I have now completed that search.  I found out what the car cost the dealer using truecar data, looked at recent sales and threw out the very low and very high ones and figured a range of sales which I thought consituted an acceptable price for the car.  I then searched dealer websites for the exact car I wanted, emailed their internet sales department and out of 6 emails received 3 responses.  I did not haggle, or pit one against the other, in fact I did not end up going  with the lowest quote because I didn't like the color of the car, so I went with a dealer who has an excellent reputation with a car in the color I wanted, his bid was $200 more than the low bid.

MSRP was $32,999 -$1,500 customer incentive, or $31,499 the local dealer was firm on that price and wouldn't budge.  The three email responses I received came back with bids of between between $29,600 -$29,900 (after the $1500 customer incentive).  Truecar came back with 3 dealers who would honor a price of $29,670, so I think all 3 bids were in the ballpark. 

I paid $29,800 which is $1,699 less than what  the local dealer was asking.  The dealer directed me to a website where I could submit a credit application, my ' vehicle  FICO' which I didn't even know existed came back at 855, so I got manufacturer subsidized 1.9% financing for 60 months.  I gave the salesman a $500 deposit with a credit card over the phone (refundable if there are any problems with the car when I inspect it) and the car will be ready for me to pick up at 2:00PM Saturday.  So this worked out perfectly for me & I'm very happy- but I am not saying this is for everyone, and let's face it some people really like the whole horse trading aspect of negotiating for a car in person and it's not for me to say that is wrong..