Auto Loans

[MsTucker09]

Okay I will. Thanks

[Cotton_Britches]

Speaking of fees, what are the legitimate fees that a dealer will charge and what are some of the bogus ones? Can a buyer refuse to pay these fees?

[UpNComing]

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Cotton_Britches wrote:

Speaking of fees, what are the legitimate fees that a dealer will charge and what are some of the bogus ones? Can a buyer refuse to pay these fees?

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Great question!  And I love your user name Cotton_Britches!  The only legitimate fee a dealer will charge is their Doc (Documentation) Fee.  I'll agree that this fee is a bunch of hot air, but you still have to pay it.  The U.S. Attorney General said that a dealer can charge a Doc Fee as long as everyone pays it.  The moment you let one person slide then everyone you've ever charged the fee to can demand their money back.  The Doc Fee is justified by various fees that the dealer pays to finalize your paperwork.  Every document that you sign is purchased by the dealer, so the dealer passes the cost, inflated as it may be onto the customer.  The dealer may also include a motor vehicle messenger service charge in their Doc Fee.  This fee will vary from dealer to dealer and every dealer is required to give you a breakdown on a buyers order of how that fee is justified.  Any fees beyond this one are pure BS.  Shady dealers will charge any number of BS fees.  The most popular being an etch fee (which is absolutely optional).  If you find a dealer that has a prep or delivery fee, find someone else to do business with.

[Revelate]

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UpNComing wrote:

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Cotton_Britches wrote:

Speaking of fees, what are the legitimate fees that a dealer will charge and what are some of the bogus ones? Can a buyer refuse to pay these fees?

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Great question!  And I love your user name Cotton_Britches!  The only legitimate fee a dealer will charge is their Doc (Documentation) Fee.  I'll agree that this fee is a bunch of hot air, but you still have to pay it.  The U.S. Attorney General said that a dealer can charge a Doc Fee as long as everyone pays it.  The moment you let one person slide then everyone you've ever charged the fee to can demand their money back.  The Doc Fee is justified by various fees that the dealer pays to finalize your paperwork.  Every document that you sign is purchased by the dealer, so the dealer passes the cost, inflated as it may be onto the customer.  The dealer may also include a motor vehicle messenger service charge in their Doc Fee.  This fee will vary from dealer to dealer and every dealer is required to give you a breakdown on a buyers order of how that fee is justified.  Any fees beyond this one are pure BS.  Shady dealers will charge any number of BS fees.  The most popular being an etch fee (which is absolutely optional).  If you find a dealer that has a prep or delivery fee, find someone else to do business with.

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I think this somewhat varies state by state?  CA has very explicit limits on what can be assessed and for how much, but  I've read that it differs in other states with what a dealer can and cannot assess as far as fees go.  It's definitely worthwhile to take the 5 minutes looking that up before going down to the dealership... and I agree that if there's a bunch of spurious things on the sheet, it's better to find someone else to do business with if they won't unilaterally remove them upon one request.

[Staley698]

Here's a link to a state-by-state breakdown of doc fees and the maximum they can charge.  I'll never forget the first new car I bought (Lancer Evolution) - all the insane fees the dealership was tacking on:

Dealer Markup

Dealer Prep

MASSIVE Doc Fee ($750)

VIN Etching

Admin Fee

Delivery Fee

Those alone added up to be THOUSANDS - so always look closely at the buyers order...ask questions...do the math...and be ready to walk if the price isn't right!  Never feel guilty about walking out on a potentially bad deal.

[UpNComing]

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Staley698 wrote:

Here's a link to a state-by-state breakdown of doc fees and the maximum they can charge.  I'll never forget the first new car I bought (Lancer Evolution) - all the insane fees the dealership was tacking on:

Dealer Markup

Dealer Prep

MASSIVE Doc Fee ($750)

VIN Etching

Admin Fee

Delivery Fee

Those alone added up to be THOUSANDS - so always look closely at the buyers order...ask questions...do the math...and be ready to walk if the price isn't right!  Never feel guilty about walking out on a potentially bad deal.

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That's just criminal!

[Qsnoodle]

Hey Up N Coming- Thanks for sticking around here to help out. 

How do I find a Fleet Manager for Southern California? San Diego are or Irvine Area for Subaru?

Also,Cost Co has a program for no Haggle price where car is quoted +or- 300 to 500 above or below invoice. is that a good price range?

[Taganka]

First and foremost, thank you UpNComing for all the insight you have provided. While I have only read about 10 pages of this thread, it appears that you providing a service that is priceless to alot of people.

I am looking to finance a car as soon as 2 weeks or as late as October depending on what I can find out about lending. My score is somewhere in the 580 range. I have a pretty decent verifiable income. I am looking to get a Certified Used Accord for ~$18k ('09 with ~36k miles as I wish to have a worry free car for at least several years) out the door and can put down as little as $4k right now and as much as $10k in a few months. As far as auto adjusted FICO. I financaed a car in 04 and hit some issues in 04 having several 30 60 or 90 marks until finally paying off the car in full so this may hurt me.

The dealer near by claims to work with people with less than excelent credit, and I am wondering what I can expect to deal with? While I am not exactly okay with a 20% interest rate, I am willing to stomach it until I refianance or pay off early. I would be extatic to get in the low double digit range and would be satisfied somewhere in the 15%. Is there an estimate of how much to put down vs what rate I can get?

My other option is to obtain some financing and go through a friend who buys cars through an auction for a used car dealer. I have never been to an auction and have not clue what kind of deals I can obtain. In addition, what do you think of the 2013 GTI and what is a reasonable price I can swing OTD? Thanks

[jimbo831]

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Taganka wrote:

First and foremost, thank you UpNComing for all the insight you have provided. While I have only read about 10 pages of this thread, it appears that you providing a service that is priceless to alot of people.

I am looking to finance a car as soon as 2 weeks or as late as October depending on what I can find out about lending. My score is somewhere in the 580 range. I have a pretty decent verifiable income. I am looking to get a Certified Used Accord for ~$18k ('09 with ~36k miles as I wish to have a worry free car for at least several years) out the door and can put down as little as $4k right now and as much as $10k in a few months. As far as auto adjusted FICO. I financaed a car in 04 and hit some issues in 04 having several 30 60 or 90 marks until finally paying off the car in full so this may hurt me.

The dealer near by claims to work with people with less than excelent credit, and I am wondering what I can expect to deal with? While I am not exactly okay with a 20% interest rate, I am willing to stomach it until I refianance or pay off early. I would be extatic to get in the low double digit range and would be satisfied somewhere in the 15%. Is there an estimate of how much to put down vs what rate I can get?

My other option is to obtain some financing and go through a friend who buys cars through an auction for a used car dealer. I have never been to an auction and have not clue what kind of deals I can obtain. In addition, what do you think of the 2013 GTI and what is a reasonable price I can swing OTD? Thanks

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I don't want to steal UpNComing's thunder as he is the car expert.  There is one thing I thought I could help with in your post though.  The late payments you mentioned, were they all in 2004?  If so, they should no longer be on your credit report.  Late payments only stay for 7 years from the date they were late.  At this point, then, that account should be appearing as a positive auto tradeline, which should help your auto-enhanced score.  That is just my $0.02.  Best of luck on the financing and new car.

[webhopper]

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jimbo831 wrote:

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Taganka wrote:

First and foremost, thank you UpNComing for all the insight you have provided. While I have only read about 10 pages of this thread, it appears that you providing a service that is priceless to alot of people.

I am looking to finance a car as soon as 2 weeks or as late as October depending on what I can find out about lending. My score is somewhere in the 580 range. I have a pretty decent verifiable income. I am looking to get a Certified Used Accord for ~$18k ('09 with ~36k miles as I wish to have a worry free car for at least several years) out the door and can put down as little as $4k right now and as much as $10k in a few months. As far as auto adjusted FICO. I financaed a car in 04 and hit some issues in 04 having several 30 60 or 90 marks until finally paying off the car in full so this may hurt me.

The dealer near by claims to work with people with less than excelent credit, and I am wondering what I can expect to deal with? While I am not exactly okay with a 20% interest rate, I am willing to stomach it until I refianance or pay off early. I would be extatic to get in the low double digit range and would be satisfied somewhere in the 15%. Is there an estimate of how much to put down vs what rate I can get?

My other option is to obtain some financing and go through a friend who buys cars through an auction for a used car dealer. I have never been to an auction and have not clue what kind of deals I can obtain. In addition, what do you think of the 2013 GTI and what is a reasonable price I can swing OTD? Thanks

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I don't want to steal UpNComing's thunder as he is the car expert.  There is one thing I thought I could help with in your post though.  The late payments you mentioned, were they all in 2004?  If so, they should no longer be on your credit report.  Late payments only stay for 7 years from the date they were late.  At this point, then, that account should be appearing as a positive auto tradeline, which should help your auto-enhanced score.  That is just my $0.02.  Best of luck on the financing and new car.

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When you go in there to work with the dealership, I wouldn't take the first financing offer he throws on the table. Dealerships will sometimes throw something out there hoping that you will bite....   My dealership on a saturday got me approval for Ford Motor Credit at 13%.  That was really more than I wanted to pay, so i indicated that I would go shop rates with my local banks and get back to them.  Lo and Behold, on Tuesday of the following week they had me an offer from a local credit union at 7.5%. Don't commit to buying until you are comfortable with the terms. If they try something sleazy like losing the keys to your trade, or putting down numbers on the sales invoice that you didn't agree to, don't be afraid to walk out. 

 Sometimes when dealers claim they can work with people with less than excellent credit, they think they can steamroll you into a deal because of your "limited" options due to your credit.  If they start acting condescining or giving you grief then its time to walk and find someone else!  There are a lot of shady things that dealerships can do, so beware!  If you have a friend or relative that you trust to help you, bring them along. It does't hurt to have two sets of eyes and ears looking at a deal before its a done deal.