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Major negative equity / upside down

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Hoya08
Regular Contributor

Re: Major negative equity / upside down


@Dj4Money wrote:

 Okay the Focus ST qualifies easy it's $25K for the base car (ST1). TTL is $2,562. If I purcahse the car out of state, I can avoid paying taxes up front. Selling at invoice saves $1644 and the current rebate is $1,000 and I have another $1,000 in rebates available to me.

 

 A base Fiesta ST is $21,740 but can be easily had for much less than that.

 

 IMHO both fit the LTV of under 120%  If your saying I MUST pay TTL it's only a little more to get the Focus ST.

 

 


If you purchase a vehicle valued at 20k minimum, then yes, you must pay TTL in cash so the 4k negtaive equity will be within the 120% LTV.  If you receive 'discounts' of $4k, then you've essentially eliminated the trade-in negative equity and do not have to worry about paying cash for TTL.

 

If the vehicle is valued more than 20k and you have 4k negative quity, the amount of cash required is reduced since the 120% LTV will cover the negative equity and some portion of TTL fees.

 

In the Focus ST situation, a 120% LTV for a $25k (MSRP) vehicle is $30k.  Assume sale price is MSRP, TTL is $2,562, and no rebates.

 

Sale Price: $25,000

TTL : $2,562

Rebates: 0

Equity: $4,000

 

Total = $31,562

120% LTV = $30,000

 

Cash required = $31,562 - $30,000 = $1,562

 

 

 

Message 21 of 26
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Major negative equity / upside down


@Dj4Money wrote:

@sccredit wrote:

@Dj4Money wrote:

@sccredit wrote:

@Dj4Money wrote:

@sccredit wrote:

When trading vehicles on a regular basis there comes a time when you have to suck it up and deal with one of two options -

 

Option 1 - Suck it up until the vehicle is paid off

 

Option 2 - Write a big fat check

 

I've been in both scenarios, neither is a good one.  

 

Unfortunately most finance companies have advance guidelines - say 120% LTV.  In order to comply with that and bury $10k of negative equity you would have to buy a $50k vehicle, put down 100% of TT&L and then carry the $10k.

 

You could try a lease but even then I'd almost guaranty that you'd have to write a big check.  


 Wait, how did you do that?

 

  I have to bury $4093. I have since re-fi'ed my current car so the pay off will be lower, therefore reducing the negative balance. How would I calulate that properly? 

 

 

 


Take the blue book of the car (most financial institutions will use NADA retail) times 1.2 (120%), that will tell you your max loan amount on a 120% LTV lender


 Actually I mean -

 

 You told the OP he had to buy a $50K car to bury $10,000 in negative balance. How did you come to that conclusion?

 


If a lender is going to advance 120% LTV OP has to buy a vehicle WORTH $50k to bury $10k.  Granted OP can get a deep discount on something but as a general rule a 120% LTV would take a $50k car to bury $10k in negative equity.  OP can go look at a $30k car with deep discounts but the chances that a financial institution would allow OP to bury $10k into something cheaper is slim to none. 


 So basically what you are saying is that a car/truck/suv that cosst $50K would have enough margin in it that a dealer could discount it by $10,000 without rolling it into the loan correct?

 

 I owe roughly $4000 in my car, so I would need to get something in the $40K range to bury my negative balance? There's a $2,000 rebate on the Dodge Charger R/T....

 


charger st , lexus, focus st editions.... Im sorry but maybe you should look for something more practical for you and your family. It seems some of this pickle that you are in is over buying cars that do not fit your lifestyle and needs. the idea is to make the balloon smaller, not wider.

 

 

I was in the same boat as you. facing 7200$ in negative equity. I found a reliable practical new car for my needs with cash rebates/incentives. that with alittle money down made up some of it. The rest was made up with good old fashion car price negotiation.

 

I truly wish you the best of luck and urge you to look at model cars that will best fit your situation for the full term of the auto loan. And dont go back to carmax, ever. they are a scam. Find a local credit union.

Message 22 of 26
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Major negative equity / upside down

I have had great fortune with this method:

 

do not act like you want the new car very or express any sort of need for the deal to happen (they can smell this)

 

do not tell them you have a trade or are looking to trade in your car before you agree on a price for the new car (stops them from confusing the numbers)

 

do not tell them your payoff amount until a price is agreed for the trade-in (stops them from further low balling you)

 

do not let them run your credit until you have agreed to a price on the new car AND the trade in (NO MATTER WHAT! if you get a good rate at a CU before you arrive at the dealership you can skip this step)

 

steps should be:

 

new car price

trade in price

finance % and term

sign the deal

drive away

 

truecar, autotrader, cargurus are great resources.

 

dealing the price of the new car first is key. Best if they do not even know there is a trade-in until after you agree on price, surprise! Often times dealerships try to leverage the trade-in value of your car against the sell price of the new car.

Message 23 of 26
Dj4Money
Established Contributor

Re: Major negative equity / upside down


@Anonymous wrote:

@Dj4Money wrote:

@sccredit wrote:

@Dj4Money wrote:

@sccredit wrote:

@Dj4Money wrote:

@sccredit wrote:

When trading vehicles on a regular basis there comes a time when you have to suck it up and deal with one of two options -

 

Option 1 - Suck it up until the vehicle is paid off

 

Option 2 - Write a big fat check

 

I've been in both scenarios, neither is a good one.  

 

Unfortunately most finance companies have advance guidelines - say 120% LTV.  In order to comply with that and bury $10k of negative equity you would have to buy a $50k vehicle, put down 100% of TT&L and then carry the $10k.

 

You could try a lease but even then I'd almost guaranty that you'd have to write a big check.  


 Wait, how did you do that?

 

  I have to bury $4093. I have since re-fi'ed my current car so the pay off will be lower, therefore reducing the negative balance. How would I calulate that properly? 

 

 

 


Take the blue book of the car (most financial institutions will use NADA retail) times 1.2 (120%), that will tell you your max loan amount on a 120% LTV lender


 Actually I mean -

 

 You told the OP he had to buy a $50K car to bury $10,000 in negative balance. How did you come to that conclusion?

 


If a lender is going to advance 120% LTV OP has to buy a vehicle WORTH $50k to bury $10k.  Granted OP can get a deep discount on something but as a general rule a 120% LTV would take a $50k car to bury $10k in negative equity.  OP can go look at a $30k car with deep discounts but the chances that a financial institution would allow OP to bury $10k into something cheaper is slim to none. 


 So basically what you are saying is that a car/truck/suv that cosst $50K would have enough margin in it that a dealer could discount it by $10,000 without rolling it into the loan correct?

 

 I owe roughly $4000 in my car, so I would need to get something in the $40K range to bury my negative balance? There's a $2,000 rebate on the Dodge Charger R/T....

 


charger st , lexus, focus st editions.... Im sorry but maybe you should look for something more practical for you and your family. It seems some of this pickle that you are in is over buying cars that do not fit your lifestyle and needs. the idea is to make the balloon smaller, not wider.

 

 

I was in the same boat as you. facing 7200$ in negative equity. I found a reliable practical new car for my needs with cash rebates/incentives. that with alittle money down made up some of it. The rest was made up with good old fashion car price negotiation.

 

I truly wish you the best of luck and urge you to look at model cars that will best fit your situation for the full term of the auto loan. And dont go back to carmax, ever. they are a scam. Find a local credit union.


 

   I don't have a family, I am single... I am not in a pickle, the car is fine. I am an auto enthusiast and a drag racer, my current car is not suited for that. The Focus ST is practical, it's four doors with a hatchback still gets 33-34 MPG out of boost and runs on 87 octane at the cost of about 15hp. It's only slightly less efficient than my Hyundai (combined economy on 87 octane, Hyundai 31 MPG, Focus ST 29 MPG).

 

 Speaking of family it's fine for a young family as I mentioned it has five doors and is larger than my Accent. 

 

  I don't know what my new 10 Day will be after I make my next payment after the re-fi but it should be less than $4,000; maybe about $3700.

 

  I was trying to understand why Ford keeps rejecting loans for the car no matter how they are written. One of the reasons Ford Credit stated was the car was too much for my income level. 

 

 Like another post the affordability of the ST is based on getting low interest rates. My repo forces rates up, but by how much is not known. 25% of income is a payment about $400. 

 

 Obviously I would like less than that, but according to my calculations, even a modest 4.49% I have on my Hyundai after the re-fi would make my payment just over $400 ($405-$413) with all the rebates + $1,000 cash.

 

 The highest incentives were around Memorial Day and 4th of July, in which Ford was putting $3,500 on the hood with trade-in allowance ($1,500), Ford Credit Rebate ($1000) and Focus Rebate ($1,000).

 

 Besides the negative equality is dealers low balling the trade. I wasn't and still not willing to put down more than $1,000 not now. I am going to Latin America, that comes first over all else, I can put this on the shelf for six months, I will eventually get one.

 

Message 24 of 26
Dj4Money
Established Contributor

Re: Major negative equity / upside down


@Hoya08 wrote:

@Dj4Money wrote:

 Okay the Focus ST qualifies easy it's $25K for the base car (ST1). TTL is $2,562. If I purcahse the car out of state, I can avoid paying taxes up front. Selling at invoice saves $1644 and the current rebate is $1,000 and I have another $1,000 in rebates available to me.

 

 A base Fiesta ST is $21,740 but can be easily had for much less than that.

 

 IMHO both fit the LTV of under 120%  If your saying I MUST pay TTL it's only a little more to get the Focus ST.

 

 


If you purchase a vehicle valued at 20k minimum, then yes, you must pay TTL in cash so the 4k negtaive equity will be within the 120% LTV.  If you receive 'discounts' of $4k, then you've essentially eliminated the trade-in negative equity and do not have to worry about paying cash for TTL.

 

If the vehicle is valued more than 20k and you have 4k negative quity, the amount of cash required is reduced since the 120% LTV will cover the negative equity and some portion of TTL fees.

 

In the Focus ST situation, a 120% LTV for a $25k (MSRP) vehicle is $30k.  Assume sale price is MSRP, TTL is $2,562, and no rebates.

 

Sale Price: $25,000

TTL : $2,562

Rebates: 0

Equity: $4,000

 

Total = $31,562

120% LTV = $30,000

 

Cash required = $31,562 - $30,000 = $1,562

 

 

 


 Best deal I got was $23,694 with Premium Wheels ($495) and All Season Tires (terrible on a performance car, $30) and $24,118 with Premium Wheels ($495) and Red Stripes ($495).

 

 Invoice is $22,726 + $875 (Destination) = $23,601

 

 Current Rebates = $1750 ($750 for financing with Ford Credit) + Police Union Rebate ($500) and my private cash ended today (10/11) but I can call Ford Marketing and get it again, I have before = $2250 without private cash and $2750 with.

 

 Amount Financed on either car was $26-27K and Ford Credit said no, so did Exter, Citi Bank, Capital One and even my old lender for the Hyundai; Gateway One.

 

 The rebates knock out TTL easily and leave about $500. If I paid $1,562 that would still leave $1938

 

 If I give back the wheels, $1443

 

 Thanks for the insight, I think the main problem is my repo and the fact I can't crossed into Good Credit territory yet. My EX score is currently 652, it peaked at 661. My Auto 08 is 649.

 

 

Message 25 of 26
happyMe1
New Member

Re: Major negative equity / upside down

Thank you so much for this! 

Message 26 of 26
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