Update: Mr. Tortoise gets a DCU loan and a truck

Anonymous · ‎07-03-2015

I know I can tell long stories. I'll try to keep this short.

Q: What resources would you use to find out the trade in value of a 2015 car?

Car is too new to show on kbb. Only the base model is shown, but no detail on various models. I even emailed them and they said not enough data (or something like that).

Someone posted a link somewhere here about black-something. I got a value there.

DH is frustrated with his several month old car for a couple reasons so we started to see how difficult it would be to get out of it into something new. He's looked at a couple places and the offer for his car has swung $4k. The first one was lower than what we thought (partially due to an error on my part reading the aforementioned site), but the next one was $4k lower than that. Really ridiculously low. I've suggested going to Car Max a couple times. We had good luck getting a price from them once before and then using that price as a bargaining chip and the dealer matched it. DH said it was a horrible experience. I don't remember it being bad, but it was his car, so that could change the perspective on the situation I suppose. I think it's Starting Over that said it's what he (or she) has used in the past or another place like it.

I'd love to take DH's car there just to see what they'd offer, but if it's near the lower value, it'd be quite the blow and I'd rather not endure that (I'd rather he not endure that). If it's near the other value we were offered, we might even pay to get out of it (assuming that's possible). We can't go back to the dealer where we were offered that as he's moved on to a totally different make for a new car.

Luscher · ‎07-03-2015

The best trade in value estimator is from a dealer. KBB is really not that great for accurate trade in estimates IMO

Dj4Money · ‎07-04-2015

KBB.com had that same problem with my car, but now six months later, the data shows up there.

Edmund's initially had my Accent valued at $12320 but since that point it's steadily dropped down now to $11,830; while KBB's updated info has it at $12.246.

This is slightly under the stated depreciation rate of 28% (Ford Fiesta is also 28%).

Doesn't stop dealers from low balling saying they'll give me $10,000 for it, up to $11,800 from one.

I just saw a 2014 Accent GS Sedan (fewer standard features, plastic wheel covers and its a sedan = ugly) advertised for $14,600. Now granted in some parts of the country Hyundai are popular because the area's average income is lower so they are more likely to purchase a car like mine.

IE in other words some dealers will be willing to pay you top dollar for your trade, while others will try to knuckle you under.

I am going out today to try and trade my Accent for something MUCH faster, the current incentives (same as May but with a few twist) run out on Monday and I have to a ton of work to do on Monday and Monday Night so it has to be done this weekend, preferably today.

Anonymous · ‎07-04-2015

The place that we were at yesterday said they put it up on an auction site for 15 min and they'll only give you what they get offers for in that 15 min. I've never heard of that. He said the name of the service I think, but of course by that point I was pretty well toast.

Another stupid question (which I sort of asked above) - Can you pay the difference to sell a car to Car Max?

Dj4Money · ‎07-04-2015

Is he putting the car on Mecum? If it's a new car like, trust me they will put it on their own lot to sell it. They are just trying to get for the lowest price, isn't that what we're trying to do?

I don't begudge them for doing this, but it's a bit rude especially if you know what it's worth.

The dealer that said mine was worth only $10,000 was based on what recent cars like mine have sold on Mecum for. I've had two dealers tell me they'll give me what I want for trade not a problem, of course I will have to watch the numbers on the other car.

Going to Car Max is an option and I thought about it too, I may do it since it's free and only takes up to 30 mins.

Of course you could sell it to Car Max, but you'll be responsible for the rest of it. I don't know if a new car dealer will roll that leftover amount into your new car loan, I don't know if anybody has tried it, but I would imagine it's possible.

Basically you would have to cash out. But depending how much you owe there might be enough incentives to pay the outstanding balance. In my case, Ford is putting anywhere from $3,000-$4,000 on the hood. If the rebates are submitted online and not by snail mail, it takes as little as 10 days to get your rebate vouchers in the mail.

That is more than enough to pay off the negative balance. Let's say Car Max gives me $13,000 for my Accent; I would owe $2442. I could buy the new car, sign the rebates I need to be sent to me directly. Once I get those (10-14 days later) I can deposit them in my bank and then write a check or use my debt card to pay off the balance.

Or

You could use one of your high limit credit cards to pay off the rest of it.

Anonymous · ‎07-04-2015

I don't remember that name, but yeah, they said that's the only way they do it so we immediately got up. They made no effort to stop us and overall it was the oddest car checking-out-test-driving experience we've had in recent memory. I will not feel bad not buying there, and I'm actually sort of relieved the deal didn't happen yesterday. It would have been another snap decision which is what got him into wanting out of a car after a short time.

He went from liking my Audi so much that he had wished he'd gotten one and thinking of an A5 to talking about trucks. As much as I love my car a truck probably makes more sense if it's the RIGHT truck.

He had a Tundra years ago and we both think it was the best travel vehicle we had. It rode so nice. But Tundras and all full size trucks have gotten so giant over the years, I encouraged him to check Tacoma and Colorado. Evidently the Tacoma has t been updated in forever and gets horrible mileage. We both really like the Colorado, but it appears they're a hot commodity. Local dealer only had one jacked up one in the showroom.They basically needed you to commit to buying it with its $10k in extras to let you test drive it. Ah, no. Called a bigger dealer nearby and asked how many they have since the other dealers online inventory hadn't been accurate. We were told they had 13. That changed to 11 shortly after we got there and then we learned it was 4. Not happy. But we did narrow it down to what we'd want. He was willing to settle for what they had (checked their three dealers, not exactly what we want anywhere). I said whatever. But then we were met with the trade in situation and walked.

Since this is an auto LOAN forum, I'll go into that here too. Not happy with local CU either. After a few phone calls over the last couple months and credit scores and tiers, they offers us a rate I wasn't happy with. Best I can tell they're using Mortgage FICO which was 734 for me vs 763 regular.

I plan to talk to DCU Monday (assuming they're not in today). We'd like to either refi his current or see if we can put something together on a truck.

I also saw the new Tacoma is due in the fall, so I wouldn't think it would be bad to wait and we what that's like, but I'm sure it'll be another low availability scramble and DH seems to already be in love, so that doesn't seem to be a consideration to him.

IF we can sold the other car somehow, we could take advantage of one of the buying services (Amex, Costco, AAA) and maybe order what he wants at a good price. That's never worked for us before because we're generally too impatient. I don't see how a service like that could work if we had the upside down trade. Seem like a license to scr** you (even more than trading a car in usually is).

Anonymous · ‎07-05-2015

Lots of 'stuff' in the last 24 hours.

We both couldn't relax until we got this vehicle situation straightened out. With a $4k swing in value between two dealers, I finally convinced him to go to Car Max and see what they say. It was VERY interesting.

They offered exactly half way between the low and the high offer. But with their excellent, transparent process of showing you how they rated the car, we noticed that it was coming up as a Golf SE not a Golf SEL. We questioned the guy at the desk and he got his supervisor (not sure of her title, but the one who could explain more). We said that that was our problem online too. For us it was hard to check a value because it was so new that KBB only listed S. But when we put it into blackbook we got right around what the highest dealer offered us. She said that our VIN was for an SE, not an SEL. She said she'd had a similar issue with a Ram where it was sold as one particular thing but it was really the lower model with the extras added so it was equivalent. DH was about to go 2 blocks down to VW and give them an earful (easy since he's already not happy with them). I suggested we go home and check paperwork first (only about 4 miles away). The sticker is definitely an SEL. There was another piece of paperwork that listed SEL. The contract just says Golf.

On the other side of the equation, we looked all over Southern California to see if we could find what he wanted. We had zero affinity for either of the dealers we'd visited on Friday, so we didn't feel bad not asking them to locate one. We found one down by the beach that was exactly what he wanted (The only question was whether we should get long or short bed and we could make arguments both ways...this one is short bed so it'll just be more manueverable. There's only a foot difference.) I think we got a decent deal on the truck, given that we know it's the only one in existence within 150 mile radius.

We went down there figuring we wouldn't trade the Golf. We'd either pursue it with VW or just take Carmax up on their offer. We were just ready to be done. We talked to the manager at the dealer and explained the SE/SEL thing. Initially he said he'd match Carmax, but then said if we brought in the sticker etc. showing SEL (we didn't drive the car there) that he'd bump it up nearly to the Audi dealer's offer. Sold.

They were only able to get us 2.99 with GM financing. We've applied to DCU and are pending. We did it just under him and I'm thinking DTI could be an issue with just him. I also sent a message through the app system that wife could be added if necessary to get best rate. Dealer was using EX Auto V2 (pretty sure that's what it said). It was probably what the local CU used too, it was a couple points lower but that could be due to the previous inquiry. It would make more sense than Mortgage score.

Cap One was listed on their application. I asked if she'd gotten a rate from them. She said we got the same rate from them but they weren't willing to extend us enough credit, but she said it looked like she could 'recon' the amount and rate with them Monday if I want (my word, not hers). I said I will be checking with another CU and I'll let her know Monday. We're taking the Golf in and finishing the deal on Tuesday. Fingers crossed that we get best rate from DCU. If not, we'll survive.

The last spur of the moment car purchase was an expensive quick decision. Financially, definitely a mistake. But if he hadn't have gotten that car, I wouldn't have gotten my car (which I love) and he wouldn't have gotten the truck. Overall, I think it positions us well for years to come, so it was nice to get it all taken care of (nearly) all at once.

Since we'll be upside down from the start, I think we should get GAP (never have on a loan in the past). That's another plus for DCU. Theirs is $295, GM is $995.

I know this is a topic with strong feelings on both sides, so I hesitate to put it here, but in case anyone has knowledge re: GM and this...

We'll also probably look into getting the GM extended warranty, but not now. I'm a little uncomfortable getting a car in it's first model year (and an American car with lots of electronics). I've confirmed we can get it later and shop different dealers for it. It's my understanding that if we get it within the by 12k or 15k miles, it's still the cheapest it can be. You can get it up through the time the factory warranty ends, but it gets more expensive as you near the end of that. You can do 0% financing for up to two years through Ally. I hope we wouldn't need to, but that sounds preferable to financing it in now for the life of the loan. And the finance mgr of course quoted us a ridiculous figure on it.

Dj4Money · ‎07-05-2015

Well done... I went to Car Max too, first they said it was a GLS. Sorry but that's not the same car, the GLS is a sedan and only a sedan. My car is a Sport and that's what it is.

Not everybody's system is up to date, just like you went through with your Golf. Glad you stuck to your guns, I have the original window sticker here too. One year deprecation on my car is 28% and every one from KBB to Edmunds is slightly lower.

I will take $12,000 for it, but I will not pay MSRP for anything. This is where the rub is coming in...

As I said, my dilema is that I want as much car as I can get. It looks like a Fiesta ST is that car, not the Focus ST. I feel strange getting a base Focus ST. As far as eminities it only matchs my Accent not exceed it. The Fiesta however is a bit slow selling so pricing can be aggressive with the right dealer.

We'll see what happens. One dealer wasted my afternoon once again, wouldn't budge off MSRP and looks like purposely pulled a lower score to justify it.

Anonymous · ‎07-05-2015

@Dj4Money wrote:
Well done... I went to Car Max too, first they said it was a GLS. Sorry but that's not the same car, the GLS is a sedan and only a sedan. My car is a Sport and that's what it is.

Not everybody's system is up to date, just like you went through with your Golf. Glad you stuck to your guns, I have the original window sticker here too. One year deprecation on my car is 28% and every one from KBB to Edmunds is slightly lower.

I will take $12,000 for it, but I will not pay MSRP for anything. This is where the rub is coming in...

As I said, my dilema is that I want as much car as I can get. It looks like a Fiesta ST is that car, not the Focus ST. I feel strange getting a base Focus ST. As far as eminities it only matchs my Accent not exceed it. The Fiesta however is a bit slow selling so pricing can be aggressive with the right dealer.

We'll see what happens. One dealer wasted my afternoon once again, wouldn't budge off MSRP and looks like purposely pulled a lower score to justify it.

I have to say that with as little credit as I give (most) car dealers/finance people, I hadn't ever thought of that as an angle. People who go in who don't know their credit score...if the FM can just look at an array of scores and know they can tell you/show you you have THIS and then get your rate based on you really having THAT, what a scam! I am now liking my CU even less as it makes me think that THAT'S why they won't tell me which EX they use. Sneaky, sneaky. I think I'll email someone in that regard. At least TELL them it looks shady to someone who is informed. But car dealers, yeah I guess I wouldn't put it past them either. That could be the FM's angle re: Cap One with us.

And I guess the VIN/Sticker/Model/Trim issue is not a one-off thing. In this information age, it's hard to believe.

Thanks and GL.

Dj4Money · ‎07-05-2015

As far as I know CU's use Mortgage FICO, it's possible some employees don't know. Not giving them a pass either.

Here's what happen. They claimed his computer go down in his office, so they went to another office. He came back "Well your score is lower". He didn't tell me he pulled Transunion, I got an alert in my email but I was focusing on trying to work the price down.

When I finally checked my alerts I got an hard pull on my Transunion. That FICO score is 580; but that's right at Ford's threshold but he started talking about sub-prime lenders like CPS, then I said well go through my current lender Gateway One, they claimed to not do any business with them.

I think there's something going on here but it's outside the purview of this thread.