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Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

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wa3more
Established Contributor

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

ewells,

 

Did you file answer yet ? Do you know anything about arbitration  and if your CC agreement has it ?

Message 21 of 30
ewells1014
New Member

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

I haven't filed an answer yet.  The most reasonably priced attorney within a decent driving distance that I could find charges $1,300 (including the required court fees) to file Chapter 7 cases as easy/simple as mine.  I spoke with him on the phone earlier in the week, and he seems to be on the up and up.  He has good ratings online, lol  Anyway, this is where we are now, and what he has suggested as far as a plan: The only real "assets" I have are two family heirloom rings.  I need to have them appraised, but the jewelery store where I want to take them will charge $145 to appraise them both.  (I don't know if I mentioned in my original post, but we live paycheck to paycheck.  When I say I have no extra money, I mean I have NO extra money.  It might as well cost $145,000 to have them appraised.)  At any rate, I can come up with that amount this week, get them appraised, and send the appraisal paperwork to the attorney.  He mentioned something about being able to keep about $11,000 in jewelery.  Sorry--I've been reading so much online about bankruptcy, and I've talked with so many attorneys and read so many forum posts that my eyes are crossed.  Smiley Sad  

 

I have until February 9 to file my Answer to the credit card suit from Barclays.  The attorney said get the appraisal, send him the paperwork for it, then check with him about a week before the Answer is due.  If I'm still sure I want to file, he said he'd help me file the answer free of charge, but he cannot (and will not) file bankruptcy until payment in full is received.  So he'll help me file the Answer, and it'll buy me 60 days.  Hopefully in that amount of time, we'll have received our Federal income tax refund and I can take some of that and pay his fees.

 

I'm just really torn on this.  I keep wanting to ignore it (That $1,300 in bankruptcy fees would go a LONG way toward paying off my husband's credit card debts.  He doesn't have nearly as many as I do, and he has great credit and wants to keep it that way).  He was also recently injured.  Beginning of last month, he herniated a disc in his neck and was out of work for almost a month.  Thankfully, he works for my stepfather, so he was paid during his time off, but it's not over yet.  The medical bills are rolling in right and left, and the epidural steroids he got a couple weeks ago ($850!!) didn't really help, so he might have to go in for round two next month.  Sorry, I'm rambling.  The point that keeps nagging at the back of my mind is, what if his back/injury gets worse and I end up having to go back to work in a year or two.  I dont' want to start a brand new job and then have it be, "Surprise!!! Remember when Barclays bank won their default judgment becuase you ignored them?  Well guess what...you ignored the Cap One lawsuit, and one other one, so we're going to be taking part of your paycheck!  You'll already be living on the bare minimum, but now it'll be the bare bare minimum!!!"  (And honestly, I don't know what the rules/laws are for garnisheeing wages, but this is what I'm picturing happening if the aforementioned scenario plays out that way and my husband can no longer work.  

 

Honestly, the chances of him being permanently disabled are slim to none, but I have the worst luck.  And truthfully, it would be so (SO SO SO) nice just to not have to worry about all this **bleep** debt.  In a way, I feel like bankruptcy is taking the easy way out.  These debts are all mine and are all legitimate, and I feel like I'm getting a free pass and I'm kind of worthless.  Smiley Sad  On the other hand, ignoring them would just leave a nagging worry at the back of my mind for the rest of my life.  Apparently judgments can be renewed after 10 years.

 

Ugh, what to do, what to do?? 

Message 22 of 30
ewells1014
New Member

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

IDK about arbitration.  The papers I was served from Barclays included some attachments (the most recent credit card statement, and also the terms and conditions that I agreed to when I got the card).  I'm assuming an arbitration clause would be in there, but the copy is so terrible, I can barely read it.  When I contact the attorney at the beginning of next month, I'll mention it to him.  Maybe he can pull up their CC agreement on their website and read about it that way.  I tried logging into my Barclays account, but it has been disabled (shocker, lol)

 

You wanna hear something funny?  Over the last two weeks, most of my daily mail has included solicitation letters from attorneys, and "pre approved" credit card offers...one from Barclays Bank.  You can't make this **bleep** up.  Smiley Very Happy

Message 23 of 30
wa3more
Established Contributor

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

shows you how screwed up these banks are.

 

When is the default date ?

Are you in community property state ?

You can find barclay agreement on CFPB site i believe . they have to post all agreements on line to comply with 2009 card act.

Did you offer to settle with them at all ?

 

To bk right now over 1700 with no other suits i dont think makes sense. Others may of may not sue.

 

So find agreement , see if it has arbitration, hopefully JAMS. Also maybe debt is outside SOL but you have to raise it as a defense.Whatever you do, answer the summons, do not get a default. Deny everything,except name and admit nothing.

Message 24 of 30
wa3more
Established Contributor

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

another point - most attorneys do not know about arbitration.If you contacted a BK attorney , he will do BK.

 

 

Message 25 of 30
enjoimorenow
Frequent Contributor

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??


@wa3more wrote:

enjoy,

 

i hear what you are saying.

 

Banks will go after someone like this sometimes to send a message to others. I have seen  banks spend 100k+ to chase 5k...just to send a message.

 

Why not just bk ? as you know, it is a gut wrenching experience and follows you around for a long time. Some job applications ask...have you ever declared bankruptcy ? especially financial firms like the large one i worked at.

 

I was 50k+ in debt. Rolled the dice. Only chase came after me on one account and i used JAMS arb on amex.

 

I would still say use BK when you are cornered and need nuke option. The creditors calculate a BK score based on credit info. They know pushed into a corner, creditlady will nuke them. She might have some leverage with garnishment not an option. She really has nothing to lose. Why pull bk trigger now ? They need judgment first to get anything which means they have to sue first.  I have seen people with 100k do this and not have to bk. This tactic would considered to be a type of passive bankruptcy.

 

I'm just not a big fan of pulling the BK card especially this early,  Way too soon.  When i settled , i got 1099's then filed form 982 to avoid paying taxes.


I get what you're saying for most situations, but when someone doesn't work, they don't really need to worry about BK on a job application.

 

Also, it would be better to BK now and have a fresh start to begin rebuilding credit, as it would be basically impossible to build your credit with all of that debt.

 

Let's just say as a hypothetical, someone doesn't work but has a lot of debt.  Partner passes away and the family looses income.  Debt collectors go after life insurance and take a good chunk.  Now the person is stuck with no money, terrible credit, has to suddenly start working while still taking care of the kids, and can't get a mortgage or car loan to provide for the family.  At this point it would be too late to file BK because you don't have any debt anymore and your credit is in the tank.  If you would have taken care of the debt by BK a couple years back and started to rebuild, at least you wouldn't lose the life insurance and you would have the means to obtain credit on things like a car/house.  This is just an example, and not saying it is/will happen, but it is easily possible, and would put a person in much worse of a situation than having a BK on their record for several years that they didn't plan to work/use credit anyways.


BK 7 Scores (08/2016): EQ-528. TU-486. EX-530.
Current Scores (04/2022): EQ-717. TU-735. EX-736.
Message 26 of 30
wa3more
Established Contributor

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

Its way too early to pull nuke cord. Just one suit of 1700 ?

 

Is debt within SOL ? Can she use arb card ?

 

I had :

chase for 5k

chase for 20k

amex 10k

 

5k they sent 1099, pulled JAMS on amex and settled for pennies, and 20k chase i settled tor 3k.

 

OP has options right now and some leverage for some type of settement. I have seen similar people do ch 7 then down the road regret it.

 

In your example, there are ways to get around insurance issue and i'm discussing a solution here that would fit most situations. Most cc have arb clauses. They offer some type of leverage. Arb is expensive for cc companies.

 

If OP could scrape up 500 bucks they may settle.

Message 27 of 30
enjoimorenow
Frequent Contributor

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

Well, the original post says $18k in debt not 1700, so idk if things changed....

 

Also, she said she doesn't have $100 to get jewlery appraised, so obviously money is very tight.  Husband is out of work and medical expenses adding up, plus he has more CC debt of his own.

 

Obviously we don't know whole situation, and there may be other options.  I was just saying BK is better than simply ignoring the debts and hoping they go away since at least BK would protect you in the future.  If she can settle, yes that's probably better than BK, but when someone can't find $100 or the money to file BK it's unlikely they would have any money to try to settle.

 

If she can find a way to settle that's affordable, that's a good option and better than BK.  I was really just suggesting the ignoring it is not a good idea, and BK would be better.


BK 7 Scores (08/2016): EQ-528. TU-486. EX-530.
Current Scores (04/2022): EQ-717. TU-735. EX-736.
Message 28 of 30
kberly69
Frequent Contributor

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

Someone else mentioned it earlier, but have you considered filing pro se? You have to be highly organized and follow the directions to the letter, but it is doable and the info you have to collect for your BK for an attorney is the same as what you'd be gathering for yourself. I filed Chapter 7 myself last May and was discharged in October. The trustee complimented my paperwork and I had no issues. NOLO's book How to File for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy is indispensible and can even help if you file with an attorney. Some of their basic info is online and you can get it shipped in two days from Amazon or wherever. You only have to pay the filing fee (low $300s) then. I would not recommend it if you feel rushed or if you aren't confident in your ability to be detail- oriented. I certainly felt way more in charge of my situation doing it that way. There are also other forums out there that are more speciifc to bankruptcy issues for when you get stuck on a detail.


CH7 BK Discharged 10/16
Oct/Nov 2016: EQ 632 TU 532 EX 573
Feb 2017: EQ 695 TU 673 EX 670
March 2017 EQ 702 TU 676 EX 673
April 2017 EX 683 (TU & EQ unknown)
May 2017 EQ 695 TU 685 EX 693
Feb 2018 EQ 704 TU 687 EX 694

9/24/20: 4 years from discharge FICO 8: EQ 751 EX 765 TU 766 FICO 9 EQ 814 EX 804 TU 821
Message 29 of 30
wa3more
Established Contributor

Re: Possible Chapter 7 but I think I'm judgment proof. Anyone else??

sounds like husband has some type of income, that's why they are living paycheck to paycheclk.

 

Situation did not change. They have 18k in cc debt, but only barclay suit for 1700 at this time. Let barclays sue and they get useless judgment. so what ?? OP can then settle 5 years down road for a fraction of total. If they want to. 80% of judgments expire uncollected. BK should be nuke option used as last resort not as financial planning tool. Pulling ch 7 card over 1700 bucks now ? not sure i would agree. The other creditors may know it does not make sense to sue.

 

I would want to know if debt is within SOL and if arb is available. This whole discussion is moot if one of these can be utilized.

 

I would answer suit and send Barclay's a letter saying I hereby elect private contractual arbitration. Then i would find an agreement on internet with an arb clause.

Message 30 of 30
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