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Valued Member
amit1326
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎11-17-2013
0

AMEX F R .. need your advice

Hi,

I just started my credit Journey one year back. Am Doing good with the help of this Forum.

4 months back I got Delta Amex with inital $ 5500 limit after 61 days I got it to 15000.

Before that CLI I got offer from Amex Green & got approved NPSL. Then last month I opened up one more new business & applied for Gold Amex & got that also approved for Gold Amex NPSL.

I use all cards good & pay full before even statment generation Date.

Last week I got a call from Amex asking about all details, I answered all what they asked. They even asked what other Business I have, I told everything.

Then she said she has hold all 3 cards & I have to send the form for Income Verfi.

Then After a while I again got a call from the same, Saying that they were easily able to verify my other business over Internet ( as my other business is ver well established) & they have no more HOLD on any card & I can use the card & Ignore the email & no need to send the Income forms.

My cards are all fine & iam using & paying as usual.

JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF ANYONE BEEN IN SAME SITUATION, AM I GOOD NOW? OR WILL THEY AGAIN ASK ME ANYTHING FOR ANY MORE REVIEW.

PLEASE ADVICE

THANKS

Super Contributor
enharu
Posts: 6,889
Registered: ‎02-27-2013
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice


amit1326 wrote:

Hi,

I just started my credit Journey one year back. Am Doing good with the help of this Forum.

4 months back I got Delta Amex with inital $ 5500 limit after 61 days I got it to 15000.

Before that CLI I got offer from Amex Green & got approved NPSL. Then last month I opened up one more new business & applied for Gold Amex & got that also approved for Gold Amex NPSL.

I use all cards good & pay full before even statment generation Date.

Last week I got a call from Amex asking about all details, I answered all what they asked. They even asked what other Business I have, I told everything.

Then she said she has hold all 3 cards & I have to send the form for Income Verfi.

Then After a while I again got a call from the same, Saying that they were easily able to verify my other business over Internet ( as my other business is ver well established) & they have no more HOLD on any card & I can use the card & Ignore the email & no need to send the Income forms.

My cards are all fine & iam using & paying as usual.

JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF ANYONE BEEN IN SAME SITUATION, AM I GOOD NOW? OR WILL THEY AGAIN ASK ME ANYTHING FOR ANY MORE REVIEW.

PLEASE ADVICE

THANKS


Since your cards are already working, I think you are fine for now.

They can ask for verification again in the future, but don't worry about it until it happens.

 

JPMorgan Palladium (100k), AmEx Platinum (NPSL), AmEx SPG (46k), AmEx BCP (42k), Chase Sapphire Preferred (47k), Citi Prestige (31k), Citi Thank You Preferred (27k), Citi Executive AAdvantage (25k), JPMorgan Ritz-Carlton (21k), Merrill+ (15k), US Bank Cash+ (22.5k), Wells Fargo (12k), Bloomingdale’s (12.4k), Chase Freedom (5k), Discover IT (5k).
Valued Member
amit1326
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎11-17-2013
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice

Thanks

But if I always pay on time .. pay in full..

Again Do I have chance for FR in future.

Super Contributor
enharu
Posts: 6,889
Registered: ‎02-27-2013
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice


amit1326 wrote:

Thanks

But if I always pay on time .. pay in full..

Again Do I have chance for FR in future.


FR happens for many reasons. 

For instance your spending may be way more than your reported income / revenue. Or that Amex suspects you are engaging in fraudulent / risky behavior, which sometimes may be due to manufactured spending. Sometimes you just happen to be the "lucky" few that are selected for a periodical review.

 

The account does not have to be late or deliquent for them to initiate a FR.

 

There's always a chance of FR again in the future, but it's generally pretty rare to get any sort of FR. Since they have already FR'ed you once, they probably will be paying more attention to your accounts, at least in the near future.

 

 

JPMorgan Palladium (100k), AmEx Platinum (NPSL), AmEx SPG (46k), AmEx BCP (42k), Chase Sapphire Preferred (47k), Citi Prestige (31k), Citi Thank You Preferred (27k), Citi Executive AAdvantage (25k), JPMorgan Ritz-Carlton (21k), Merrill+ (15k), US Bank Cash+ (22.5k), Wells Fargo (12k), Bloomingdale’s (12.4k), Chase Freedom (5k), Discover IT (5k).
Valued Member
amit1326
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎11-17-2013
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice

Thanks Enharu.,, Really Appricaite your advice

one more thing in next 4 moths or so .. I will be eligble for CLI in my revolving account. I read in the forum that we can request upto 25000 with no income docs. I have 15000 now so can request for 40 or 45..

SO u think I should request since they have already FR or .. Should I stay in Limit for 25000 as my other 2 accounts both are charge Cards one personal & other OPEN business

 

pls Advice

 

Thanks


enharu wrote:

amit1326 wrote:

Thanks

But if I always pay on time .. pay in full..

Again Do I have chance for FR in future.


FR happens for many reasons. 

For instance your spending may be way more than your reported income / revenue. Or that Amex suspects you are engaging in fraudulent / risky behavior, which sometimes may be due to manufactured spending. Sometimes you just happen to be the "lucky" few that are selected for a periodical review.

 

The account does not have to be late or deliquent for them to initiate a FR.

 

There's always a chance of FR again in the future, but it's generally pretty rare to get any sort of FR. Since they have already FR'ed you once, they probably will be paying more attention to your accounts, at least in the near future.

 

 


 

Super Contributor
enharu
Posts: 6,889
Registered: ‎02-27-2013
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice


amit1326 wrote:

Thanks Enharu.,, Really Appricaite your advice

one more thing in next 4 moths or so .. I will be eligble for CLI in my revolving account. I read in the forum that we can request upto 25000 with no income docs. I have 15000 now so can request for 40 or 45..

SO u think I should request since they have already FR or .. Should I stay in Limit for 25000 as my other 2 accounts both are charge Cards one personal & other OPEN business

 

pls Advice

 

Thanks

 


The 25k rule is not absolute.

There have been many examples of people going above 25k CL on 1 card, or having more than 35k total CL across different Amex cards, and they have never been asked for any sort of income verification.

 

My suggestion is to just ask for the max, and if they do need income verification (this is different from FR), then you can either submit your tax docs, or cancel the CLI request.

 

 

JPMorgan Palladium (100k), AmEx Platinum (NPSL), AmEx SPG (46k), AmEx BCP (42k), Chase Sapphire Preferred (47k), Citi Prestige (31k), Citi Thank You Preferred (27k), Citi Executive AAdvantage (25k), JPMorgan Ritz-Carlton (21k), Merrill+ (15k), US Bank Cash+ (22.5k), Wells Fargo (12k), Bloomingdale’s (12.4k), Chase Freedom (5k), Discover IT (5k).
Valued Contributor
red259
Posts: 1,922
Registered: ‎06-05-2013
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice


enharu wrote:

amit1326 wrote:

Thanks Enharu.,, Really Appricaite your advice

one more thing in next 4 moths or so .. I will be eligble for CLI in my revolving account. I read in the forum that we can request upto 25000 with no income docs. I have 15000 now so can request for 40 or 45..

SO u think I should request since they have already FR or .. Should I stay in Limit for 25000 as my other 2 accounts both are charge Cards one personal & other OPEN business

 

pls Advice

 

Thanks

 


The 25k rule is not absolute.

There have been many examples of people going above 25k CL on 1 card, or having more than 35k total CL across different Amex cards, and they have never been asked for any sort of income verification.

 

My suggestion is to just ask for the max, and if they do need income verification (this is different from FR), then you can either submit your tax docs, or cancel the CLI request.

 

 


If you cancel the CLI request can you then reapply for a lower CL and avoid the income verification or will your file be flagged going forward for future CLI requests even if they are for lower amounts? How long would someone need to wait before trying again to avoid the hassle?


Starting Score: EQ: 714, TU 684
Current Score: EQ: 725 7/30/13, TU 684 6/2013, Exp 730 6/27/14
Goal Score: 800 In garden until 1/2015
Super Contributor
enharu
Posts: 6,889
Registered: ‎02-27-2013
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice


red259 wrote:

If you cancel the CLI request can you then reapply for a lower CL and avoid the income verification or will your file be flagged going forward for future CLI requests even if they are for lower amounts? How long would someone need to wait before trying again to avoid the hassle?


if you cancel the CLI request I believe the system registers it as a denial.

you will then need to wait 90 days from the date of the denial letter to request for another CLI.

 

You file may well already be flagged for even a $1 increase from your current CL, or it may just be that you are asking for too much CLI compared for your income and internal score. No one knows except Amex. And they may ask for docs for all future subsequent CLIs, or they may not, if your internal score has improved a lot since then. There're just too many factors to consider.

 

JPMorgan Palladium (100k), AmEx Platinum (NPSL), AmEx SPG (46k), AmEx BCP (42k), Chase Sapphire Preferred (47k), Citi Prestige (31k), Citi Thank You Preferred (27k), Citi Executive AAdvantage (25k), JPMorgan Ritz-Carlton (21k), Merrill+ (15k), US Bank Cash+ (22.5k), Wells Fargo (12k), Bloomingdale’s (12.4k), Chase Freedom (5k), Discover IT (5k).
Established Contributor
cashnocredit
Posts: 1,024
Registered: ‎07-18-2009
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice

Amex has highly sophisticated consumer financial models. They are also built around the two differnt types of credit extension. Charge cards are for convenience. Credit cards are for carrying debt. If you have no history of carrying debt they have to depend on your (and others in CRA databases) payment history. Once you carry a balance, they can see how much you pay and that becomes a very good indication that:

 

1. You don't have significant cash savings though you may have 401k, etc. Almost nobody pays double digit interest rates while keeping money in a CD or savings account.

2. Income estimates are now more accurate because they can see exactly how much is carried. The amount of payment beyond the minimum is their key metric.

 

Consumers that always pay in full are difficult to make income estimates on. They may have lots of income or they may be drawing down savings. Over time they get more comfortable that they know the customer's general financial health.

 

I've a relatively thin, short history but have had 50k+ balances on my charge card and never a peep out of Amex. No chance in Hell I  could do that with other cards. I don't have Amex CCs nor have I even signed up for pay over time. There is zero chance I will use it and the 10K MR points just doesn't interest me enough.

I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy15k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Super Contributor
enharu
Posts: 6,889
Registered: ‎02-27-2013
0

Re: AMEX F R .. need your advice


cashnocredit wrote:

Amex has highly sophisticated consumer financial models. They are also built around the two differnt types of credit extension. Charge cards are for convenience. Credit cards are for carrying debt. If you have no history of carrying debt they have to depend on your (and others in CRA databases) payment history. Once you carry a balance, they can see how much you pay and that becomes a very good indication that:

 

1. You don't have significant cash savings though you may have 401k, etc. Almost nobody pays double digit interest rates while keeping money in a CD or savings account.

2. Income estimates are now more accurate because they can see exactly how much is carried. The amount of payment beyond the minimum is their key metric.

 

Consumers that always pay in full are difficult to make income estimates on. They may have lots of income or they may be drawing down savings. Over time they get more comfortable that they know the customer's general financial health.

 

I've a relatively thin, short history but have had 50k+ balances on my charge card and never a peep out of Amex. No chance in Hell I  could do that with other cards. I don't have Amex CCs nor have I even signed up for pay over time. There is zero chance I will use it and the 10K MR points just doesn't interest me enough.


I agree for the most part, but it also depends on the individual.

 

Dragging a balance for just 1 month on a 20% APR card is just 1.67% interest. If your APR is lower, then the interest fee is even lower. It doesn't make sense to withdraw money from a CD / investment and suffer even more penalties just because you don't want to pay 1.67% worth of interests. It all depends which step you take ends up costing you more money instead. 

 

Some people may just want to leave a balance for a month, or few months, just for liquidity. They may have better use for that money and make a better return than whatever the credit card company is charging. This is risky though, because if what they are doing goes bust, then it becomes ugly really quickly. But many people and businesses do that. 

 

That being said, Amex is a lender that prefers payment in full. They are very risk adverse, so what you are doing is considered as the ideal behavior they want out of their customers. 

JPMorgan Palladium (100k), AmEx Platinum (NPSL), AmEx SPG (46k), AmEx BCP (42k), Chase Sapphire Preferred (47k), Citi Prestige (31k), Citi Thank You Preferred (27k), Citi Executive AAdvantage (25k), JPMorgan Ritz-Carlton (21k), Merrill+ (15k), US Bank Cash+ (22.5k), Wells Fargo (12k), Bloomingdale’s (12.4k), Chase Freedom (5k), Discover IT (5k).

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