Amex - Black List

[myjourney]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@fltireguy wrote:

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@n777ua wrote:

I wonder what Amex considers "defrauding"?  Fraud can be a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

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In their eyes, churning could possibly even be construed as fraud....  My opinion..

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Very very doubtful that they would consider churning as fraud and you can't churn Amex cards as their bonuses are once in a lifetime.

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+1

Per card 

[n777ua]

Many moons (late 90s) ago ex DW#1 filed BK7 which included two Amex's.  One had a very large balance, close to $30,000 - it was one of their revolvers but I don't know which one.  I was AU.  During the preceeding Amex tried to challenge the filing on the basis that exDW had defrauded the company. Their reasons were:

• falsifying financial documents - her reported income wasn't close to actual, but was off by about $20,000.  I don't know if this was intentional or not
• bankruptcy fraud - making large charges leading up to the bk filing.  This MAY have been intentional, I don't remember if she was considering BK on her spending spree or not.  She did, however, go and see an attorney about BK and he advised her to wait another 60 days or so to file.  Wonder if this was something he saw?

A couple years later trying to get in the door with Amex I had a hell of a time getting approved with decent scores and no baddies.  Wonder if this was why?

I think I have copies of those letters somewhere from Amex's attornys, I should try and dig them up!

[Anonymous]

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@n777ua wrote:

Many moons (late 90s) ago ex DW#1 filed BK7 which included two Amex's.  One had a very large balance, close to $30,000 - it was one of their revolvers but I don't know which one.  I was AU.  During the preceeding Amex tried to challenge the filing on the basis that exDW had defrauded the company.  A couple years later trying to get in the door with Amex I had a hell of a time getting approved with decent scores and no baddies.  Wonder if this was why?

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Defiitely was

[sjt]

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@Anonymous wrote:

As some of you will know, I was recently declined for the Amex everyday card. I got a call this week from Amex EO about a letter I sent and how disappointed I was on being on the Black List, with out any real options. 

A few pieced of information that they shared with me that I thought might be helpful to some people. 1- They don't call it a black list they refer to it as an internal risk rating 2- Policy recently changed with Amex in regards to applicants with prior AMEX IIB, depending on how large the IIB Account was a members internal risk score will be to high for 5-7 years unless deemed excessive (wouldnt give me the magic number) but indicated that it would be 10 years. One exception to that rule is defrauding Amex in which case it will lead to a perminant high risk rating. 3- I had mentioned the optima program and how I originally asked for an invitation and was told no based on how my account was closed, They mentioned that it was true, IIB no longer qualifies for optima 4- I asked if I just paid back the balance if it would help, was told it would have no impact what so ever 5- reviewed my membership and said it looks like my Interal Risk Score would drop closer to the 5 year mark then the 7 year mark but couldnt tell me exactly when as it was propitary, made the suggestion to stay away from inquiries in order to get back in. 6- AU accounts impact the IR score allot when you do not have a primary account.

Happy with the information provided, looks like I may be able to get back in soon. 

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Thanks Sean for sharing your conversation with us. This is really helpful.

Im not advocating for anyone to pay a BK or CO debt, but my gut is telling me that if someone pays Amex back it should decrease your internal risk score. Also, Im really curious to know what Amex considers "fradulent."

[Anonymous]

So, when you state 5-7 years. Is this from the time of charge off? I am asking as I had 2 cards charge off ($1800 and $200) in Dec of 2010. I paid them off in full to Amex in January of this year. 95% of my baddies will be gone by June of 17 and I would like try and get the Hhonors cobranded card. I average about 85-95 stays a year in a Hilton. 

[Closingracer99]

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@Anonymous wrote:

So, when you state 5-7 years. Is this from the time of charge off? I am asking as I had 2 cards charge off ($1800 and $200) in Dec of 2010. I paid them off in full to Amex in January of this year. 95% of my baddies will be gone by June of 17 and I would like try and get the Hhonors cobranded card. I average about 85-95 stays a year in a Hilton. 

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IDK about your situation but have you checked the Citi branded one? Similar card but with slightly worse point structure.... The only differences is 5X points at Hilton, 3X and etc ( IDK the bonus for that) and 2X everything else.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

 6- AU accounts impact the IR score allot when you do not have a primary account.

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In a good way, or?

I wonder if this would help those of us with just lower scores get in with Amex

[pizza1]

There have been a select few who were able to get back in at the 4 yr mark, but AMEX wasn't IIB for them. If you burned them, thats a different story. It'll be a long time before you get back with them.

Paying them off actually will help you in the future get back in with them. I have seen a few rare posts that Amex was IIB, the poster paid them off, and shortly after got an "invitation" to the Oasis program. That program still exists today, but its by Invitation only, you can't just request it.

The other post BK success Ive seen is where Amex wasn't IIB, but the typical 4-7 yr wait post DC was in place, and their reports were clean otherwise, with a decent rebuild.

Completely up to you if you want to repay a lender, and if Amex is important for you to be back in with them, they are one lender you'll have to repay if you want in sooner than 10-20 yrs, lol.

[Anonymous]

Only took me 33 years to get back in. It was worth it, though. That fat back date is propping up my scores big time! 

[Anonymous]

I kind of find the fact that AMEX has such a strict "Blacklist" (especially when compated to other Banks) interesting from a business standpoint....here's why.

I think AMEX does this to their own detriment given the events of the past 8-9 years.  There were a lot of cardholders (myself included) who suffered from the finaicial bust.  Keep in mind this wasn't just any turndown...it was big and it affected a lot of people...and a lot of AMEX cardholders who said can't do it any more and walked away from the debt.

Some filed BK, others didn't.  What were good, on time payers became (over the coming months) write offs/Bad Debt.

Now...it's 7-8 years later.  Many of these people (including me, fortunately) have put their financial house back in order, and have re-establish their credit rating. 

***Also....bear in mind that since it's 7-8 years....most of the Baddies that were created have fallen off the Credit Reports....and these people who have re-establish are going to have more and more offers coming to them.

I don't come at this from a position of envy or bitterness....If i never have a card with AMEX again (full disclosure, I am an AU on an FNBO one) it would be no big deal....i can certainly survive the credit world without AMEX.

But....I think AMEX may want to reconsider their position.  Should they make an exception to certain past card holders?  Maybe, maybe not.  They certainly have all the data they need to determine (to a pretty good extent) what occured to some of their card holders 7-8 years ago.  I completely understand a company sticking by thier policies...but sometimes you need to allow yourself some flexibility...especially given the fact there are a lot of Banks that are going to go after this segment just by the fact they now qualify.

They just lost the Costco deal....a huge revenue loss to be sure.  The CC industry is very competitive, and like an earlier poster mentioned, their Cards are not that special by comparison.  Perhaps they need to rethink their strategy.

just my two cents....