@Revelate wrote:
@changingmantra2 wrote:I do not know what the heck they pull - but last year - a rep insisted that I had two unpaid judgments on my CR - when I knew for certain that was NOT the case - The crazy thing was that Chase said the same thing. I pulled my report - already knowing that I would find what they were saying to be untrue. The final outcome - was them telling me to get in touch with EX. Of course - I was like - to "To say WHAT? I do NOT have two unpaid judgments - I have ONE - but that second one was paid before it even showed up in my credit file years ago." All I know is that - In July - I was told this and denied for both cards. In Dec. I was approved for a Freedom - then last month approved for a BCE. The only thing that changed on my reports in that time - was the number of credit cards I had. So, I do not know what these people were looking at, but I assume that either they were now looking at the correct report - and/or they no longer cared about my supposed 2 unpaid judgments. You can call them - but do not get your hopes up. Like I said, all was told was to contact EX, which made no sense snce my EX reported correctly on my end.
Lenders can pull secondary data aggregation reports: if you had a second judgement, and it was paid, it may still be on record with the courts even if it didn't make it to the bureau. As a result, it might've gotten into the data stream somewhere.
The other thing to note is sometimes there needs to be some period of time between the derogs in question and the application.
ETA: in general, not every credit score is created equally: a 750 is obtainable in 2 years from a nofile, likely easily so on a FICO '08 model. This is very, very different in terms of quality than someone who has a 750 with 8+ years of a clean sheet. Beyond that, a lot of factors go into an underwriting decision which we'll never find out about as consumers: they're mandated to toss some reasons together by regulation based on what's in the credit report and to furnish a score if it was used in a denial... that's it though, and typically they'll never go beyond the minimum standard. It costs more, and it opens them up for possible lawsuits which might go sideways. What they provided is stable ground legally, and lenders won't walk off that unless forced to in my estimation.
In December 2011 I received a notice from my bank that NYS Dept. of Taxation helped themselves to >$800 of my money. That judgement did not even show up on my reports until Feb or March 2012 - and it ALWAYS reported as a satisfied judgement. The unpaid judgment was from two years prior.
That was 2.5 and 4.5 years prior to Chase and AMEX reps claiming that both reported as unpaid. I check my reports every month - I know that they have always reported as paid and unpaid, but the reps insisted otherwise. I have no idea what the heck they were looking at. Were it not for the fact that two different people at two different banks said the same thing - I would believe that they were lying and/or just terribly mistaken. But AMEX and Chase both insisted there was something on my CR that I knew for certain was not there. So - it is worth looking into.
“We delight in the beauty of the butterfly, but rarely admit the changes it has gone through to achieve that beauty.”
@changingmantra2 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@changingmantra2 wrote:I do not know what the heck they pull - but last year - a rep insisted that I had two unpaid judgments on my CR - when I knew for certain that was NOT the case - The crazy thing was that Chase said the same thing. I pulled my report - already knowing that I would find what they were saying to be untrue. The final outcome - was them telling me to get in touch with EX. Of course - I was like - to "To say WHAT? I do NOT have two unpaid judgments - I have ONE - but that second one was paid before it even showed up in my credit file years ago." All I know is that - In July - I was told this and denied for both cards. In Dec. I was approved for a Freedom - then last month approved for a BCE. The only thing that changed on my reports in that time - was the number of credit cards I had. So, I do not know what these people were looking at, but I assume that either they were now looking at the correct report - and/or they no longer cared about my supposed 2 unpaid judgments. You can call them - but do not get your hopes up. Like I said, all was told was to contact EX, which made no sense snce my EX reported correctly on my end.
Lenders can pull secondary data aggregation reports: if you had a second judgement, and it was paid, it may still be on record with the courts even if it didn't make it to the bureau. As a result, it might've gotten into the data stream somewhere.
The other thing to note is sometimes there needs to be some period of time between the derogs in question and the application.
ETA: in general, not every credit score is created equally: a 750 is obtainable in 2 years from a nofile, likely easily so on a FICO '08 model. This is very, very different in terms of quality than someone who has a 750 with 8+ years of a clean sheet. Beyond that, a lot of factors go into an underwriting decision which we'll never find out about as consumers: they're mandated to toss some reasons together by regulation based on what's in the credit report and to furnish a score if it was used in a denial... that's it though, and typically they'll never go beyond the minimum standard. It costs more, and it opens them up for possible lawsuits which might go sideways. What they provided is stable ground legally, and lenders won't walk off that unless forced to in my estimation.
In December 2011 I received a notice from my bank that NYS Dept. of Taxation helped themselves to >$800 of my money. That judgement did not even show up on my reports until Feb or March 2012 - and it ALWAYS reported as a satisfied judgement. The unpaid judgment was from two years prior.
That was 2.5 and 4.5 years prior to Chase and AMEX reps claiming that both reported as unpaid. I check my reports every month - I know that they have always reported as paid and unpaid, but the reps insisted otherwise. I have no idea what the heck they were looking at. Were it not for the fact that two different people at two different banks said the same thing - I would believe that they were lying and/or just terribly mistaken. But AMEX and Chase both insisted there was something on my CR that I knew for certain was not there. So - it is worth looking into.
As Rev pointed out, judgments can appear on reports that you may not be aware of ie INNOVIS, ARS
As Rev pointed out, judgments can appear on reports that you may not be aware of ie INNOVIS, ARS
My issue was not that the judgments were listed - but HOW they were supposedly listed. The OP said they were told that there are things on his/her report that they know are not there. I was simply sharing that this happened to me as well with AMEX. Although my judgment was paid, had ALWAYS appeared on my CRs as PAID and was listed that way for 2.5 years - when I applied for an AMEX card in 2013 - the CSR told me it was denied because this judgment was listed as UNPAID - along with another one. He insisted he was getting this information from EX, which made no sense because I was looking at a copy of my EX. I told him it clearly stated PAID - and he argued with me that that was not the case - and just told me to contact EX.
OP - I do hope you can get some answers. You should not be penalized for phantom blemishes - Hopefully you can at least get someone at AMEX who will be honest about what the heck they are looking at and maybe give you some suggestions about how to correct the descrepencies.
Could be - It was not recent - It was 2.5 years old - It NEVER reported as Unpaid - not once - Paid in 12/11 - first reported in 2 or 3/12. It took so long to show up - that I was thinking and so so so hoping that it never would.. and then BAM - I got a credit alert notification.
Two and a half years later I was shocked as hell when the rep said, "You have two unpaid collections." Really - I thought some new *^*&(% showed up that I did not know about. I quickly pulled my CR - and was like, "What are you talking about?" When he told me - NY State Taxation ....... I said "No, no, no no... I did not even have a choice in the matter.. They BEEN took that money a long time ago!" But... according to him EX said it was unpaid .. and I know on my end - EX was saying it was paid.
They have since approved me - and nothing has changed but the weather ... so I still do not know what the hell they were looking at a few months ago. At first - I thought he was just making this up - but then a Chase rep told me the same thing just a day or so later... so ... yeah - you do have a valid point.
That is messed up - I did have blemishes - but it sounds like the OP might be getting a raw deal due to some errors.
@changingmantra2 wrote:
That is messed up - I did have blemishes - but it sounds like the OP might be getting a raw deal due to some errors.
Just from reading the reasons I don't think there was an error made as requests for credit could've been SP CLI's for all we know which are reported to secondary data sources.
I suspect it's simpler: likely Amex doesn't think he'll be a profitable customer. It's one of those hard sells, comparitive lack of discretionary income, non-trivial debts, and what sounds like pretty substantial credit extention from other lenders... toss that in with the non-use of the Green, and I'm struggling to think that Amex would approve for that particular card which they seem to be very protective of from people's reports here. I'm fairly confident I wouldn't have gotten approved even when I had real discretionary income and non-trivially used both my Zync and BCP after wrapping my arms around Amex for more than a year and have been a very profitable customer for them whose use pattern would be ideal for the ED/EDP cards pre-Fidelity approval.
It's hard to suggest what Amex will do without a disclosure of a lot more information (assets, other expenses, etc) but from what's been presented it just doesn't seem like a good application for this card. Use the Green or maybe go back later for the more common purpose BCE/BCP and use that.
