Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

[wollepopolle]

Good description, the training wheels I mean.This in turn leads me to wonder why they wouldn't graduate loyal customers to reward their loyalty and reliability. Is it that they have been burnt by such customers in the past? That would be understandable. However, if it comes down to you yourself as a reliable and willing customer who feels himself / herself rejected, it is always a huge disappointment.

[haulingthescoreup]

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@wollepopolle wrote:

Good description, the training wheels I mean.This in turn leads me to wonder why they wouldn't graduate loyal customers to reward their loyalty and reliability. Is it that they have been burnt by such customers in the past? That would be understandable. However, if it comes down to you yourself as a reliable and willing customer who feels himself / herself rejected, it is always a huge disappointment.

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And that's the kicker right there --the feeling of being judged and found wanting. No one wants that, especially if they've successfully come back from past credit problems.

I finally got beyond that. It became very obvious during the initial credit meltdown that banks were guessing wildly as to which customers they wanted to hang on to and which to cut loose. As maddening as FICO scoring can be, it at least has several decades of research behind it. Banks use more than FICO scoring in their approval processes, and it looks to me like many of their additional evaluation tools are frequently dreamed up in the elevator while facing a Friday deadline.

I'm baffled that Cap One doesn't use the knowledge they have of their successful rebuilding customers to take them up to the next level. I'm baffled that HSBC and Barclays, which are prestigious banks in the rest of the world, stick with their lame-o US card portfolios, although Barclays is getting better. I'm baffled at Citi's and Chase's frequent about-faces as to whether they're approving new apps, increasing CL's, or extending rewards. But all this is obviously due to some sort of internal policies that they're trying out, not to what they think of me as a customer, so I shake my head and keep going.

I just judge some of the lenders that we learn about here, and I find them wanting.

[MarineVietVet]

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@wollepopolle wrote:

It's interesting that so many of you have such bad experiences with Capital One. And I can see why!

I got their No Hassle Cashback Rewards (2% on gas/groceries + 1% on everything else with no cap and no annual fee). I love the card for foreign transactions as they don't charge me a fee. Also, the cashback is straightforward: I can redeem any available amount at any time. No expiration or jump-through-a-hoop to get there.

When I applied, they gave me a CL of $7400 right away which I thought was generous.

With Cap One it seems that if you start out low with a rebuilder card or a secured card, they keep you there and are unwilling to graduate people with good history.There is a deep rift between their subprime and their prime cards.

So far, they've adhered to what they promised. But I've only had the card for two months. We'll see!

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I've had my Cap 1 account almost 13 years and it's been no better or no worse than BoA, Citi, Discover, etc.

I've had "disagreements" with all of them at one time. 

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 9/09 pulled by lender 802
EQ - 7/06-663, 3/10-800
TU - 8/10-772
You can do the same thing with hard work

[GregB]

Is this the normal procedure for a person that gets a CapOne secured card?

1. Joe's credit is poor. No CCC wil give him a regular CC at all.

2. CapOne is one of the companies that has a secured card. Joe gets one with a $200 limit.

3. Joe has learned his lesson and does well enough that CapOne unsecures the card.

4. Joe continues to do well and CapOne raises the limit to the max for that card, $500.

5. Joe feels he is now a good credit risk because he knows he has cleaned up his act and is convinced he has great credit. CapOne still knows he was a poor risk and will take a while before they catch up with Joe.

6. Joe applies for a CLI from CapOne, who screws up here IMHO by not communicating that his starter card has a $500 limit and can go no higher. They aren't quite ready to give Joe a different CapOne card with a better limit since they are still trailing Joe in their opinion of his credit improvement.

7. Joe applies with BigBank, who pulls his CR and sees only the CapOne acct with $500 limit and perfect payment history. I think at this point his credit looks better to BigBank  than CapOne because BigBank only has the report. BigBank gives Joe a CC with a $500 limit.

8. Joe applies with OtherBank who pulls a report showing Joe has two CC with $500 limits and perfect payment history. The report might still have the negatives that Joe had when he got the secured card in step #1, but if they are still there, they are very old. OtherBank gives Joe a CC with a $2,000 CL.

9. At this point, an app with CapOne would get him a good CC and a good CL. He would get the same from other CCC.

It seems the problem was all caused by Joe BUT since human nature isn't going to change, CapOne would do well to improve their system. By offering a very wide range of products, they have created some interesting challenges.

.

[Anonymous]

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@GregB wrote:

Is this the normal procedure for a person that gets a CapOne secured card?

1. Joe's credit is poor. No CCC wil give him a regular CC at all.

2. CapOne is one of the companies that has a secured card. Joe gets one with a $200 limit.

3. Joe has learned his lesson and does well enough that CapOne unsecures the card.

4. Joe continues to do well and CapOne raises the limit to the max for that card, $500.

5. Joe feels he is now a good credit risk because he knows he has cleaned up his act and is convinced he has great credit. CapOne still knows he was a poor risk and will take a while before they catch up with Joe.

6. Joe applies for a CLI from CapOne, who screws up here IMHO by not communicating that his starter card has a $500 limit and can go no higher. They aren't quite ready to give Joe a different CapOne card with a better limit since they are still trailing Joe in their opinion of his credit improvement.

7. Joe applies with BigBank, who pulls his CR and sees only the CapOne acct with $500 limit and perfect payment history. I think at this point his credit looks better to BigBank  than CapOne because BigBank only has the report. BigBank gives Joe a CC with a $500 limit.

8. Joe applies with OtherBank who pulls a report showing Joe has two CC with $500 limits and perfect payment history. The report might still have the negatives that Joe had when he got the secured card in step #1, but if they are still there, they are very old. OtherBank gives Joe a CC with a $2,000 CL.

9. At this point, an app with CapOne would get him a good CC and a good CL. He would get the same from other CCC.

It seems the problem was all caused by Joe BUT since human nature isn't going to change, CapOne would do well to improve their system. By offering a very wide range of products, they have created some interesting challenges.

.

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Very accurate description.

I believe that CrapOne, Orchard and the others should tell you up front that "This card will only have a CL higher than $500 when hell freezes over."  Making you believe you have hope when none exists is lame.

Equally lame is when on CrapOne card #1 you can never get past the $500 barrier, but you can apply for a second card and get a $5,000 CL. 

Rebuilders serve their purpose and are not by definition evil.  Where I would draw the line is on a $500 CL card with a $59 AF. 

You mention that "CapOne still knows he was a poor risk" and while I find that highly possible, it also makes me wonder about why they force you to open another, separate account to get a higher CL.  Perhaps it could be that the CrapOne $500 CL on a, say, 5-year-old account reporting on your credit reports is CrapOne's secret code to let other creditors know one was once totally FUBAR?  While they can't report negative information after approximately 7 years, the never-increasing $500 CL could really be a false positive serving as a warning to others who pull your report.

[homerunstacy]

Cap 1 is my oldest open card as well.  I guess it "cap-ed" out (pun intended) at $500 and never changed.  Actually I think I even started with 500 CL.  It served its purpose when I opened it in 2003.  I now have other cards with 3k - 6k limits on them but I  kept Cap 1 around for the age.  My AF was actually $39 on the card.  Not sure it will go up or not.  Paid it last month.  I may fire them just before it is due again next year.  The card has been collecting dust for the last year anyway. 

Side note -  I just closed a household bank card for the same reason. It served its purpose when I needed it and now I no longer need it nor do I want to waste money on an AF for a card I never plan to use again.  They even offered to refund half of the AF to keep me but I still declined.  I considered also closing a chase BP rewards card with a $1200 CL that I never use too.  It is from 2008 but the rep talked me into keeping it open since there is no AF.  I'm just a little worried I have too many cards right now.  I am trying to trim down a bit.

On the positive side my overall CLs  went up on three cards in the last few months.  BOA mastercard went from 2500  to  4000. Hit luv button today - got a call back from them, asked me a few questions and bumped it up no problemo.  Also app'd for West Elm Card/WFFNB card and got instant approval for 4k a couple weeks ago.  

[haulingthescoreup]

Nice work, homerunstacy! Your rebuilder cards did their job (with your help), and now you're moving on.

West Elm, huh? I'd never heard of them, but they're a furniture store, so it makes sense that they give higher CL's. Congrats!

[Safe4Me2]

Grrrrrrrrrrrr I got the same notice and I deciding if I should keep the card or not. My account is just a year old...

[homerunstacy]

Thanks..  Yes. love West Elm Store.  Charged some bedding stuff as soon as it arrived and then PIF'ed.  

 I also am a big fan of Zgallerie -  Another WFFNB card.  That one I got three years ago with a $2500 CL.  I've used that one a twice for large purchases.  Right now carrying a balance with 0% intrest for 12 mo on the zgallerie card.  Maxed it, paid 1/4 off 1st month before statement even dropped and rest will get paid off in the next 3 months. I am sure I am taking a hit on overall util.  I'd probably be in the 740s already if I wasn't carrying a couple promo balances.  However, the beautiful new living room chairs and a sofa set  was oh so worth it =)

[haulingthescoreup]

I used to hate on WFNNB, due to problems with getting them to update $0 balances on my J.Crew card, but the day that I called up and asked in my shaky voice if they would consider GW'ing my old lates, up to and including a 90-day, and the CSR replied that all she saw was the last two years, and I was clean, and she would update to the credit bureaus accordingly, they've become one of my favorite banks. Giant score hops when those came off, because I came out of one of the two negative score buckets.

And they seen to be very generous with CLI's, at least on my J.Crew card, so I have serious warm fuzzies for them, insofar as I have warm fuzzies for any bank at all.

Nice work with the 0% purchase APR. That's the whole point of working on our credit profiles --we can qualify for this sort of deal, and save/ make money in the process.