Reply
Moderator Emeritus
fused
Posts: 16,371
Registered: ‎03-12-2007
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

As far as inqs go, FIA is the same as BoA.

Credit Profile -
FICO 08 Scores (08-22-2014): EQ 820, EX 817, TU 815
All three scores were 850. Lost points for not having an open installment TL. So, BE WARNED!!!!!
Credit History: 26+ years ~ AAoA: 12 years ~ Util: 1% ~ Inqs: EX 1 (Amex 07-15-2014)

Senior Contributor
O6
Posts: 3,626
Registered: ‎10-13-2009
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?


RobertEG wrote:

In reality, there is no benefit for a creditor to code a credit pull for a CLI as a "hard pull."

It is clearly a permissable pull under FCRA 604(a)(3)(A), entitlling them to your full credit report.

How a credit inquiry is coded with the CRA is not regulated by the FCRA, and why some do hard vs. soft pulls is a mystery to me.  As an existing customer who is most probably doing it to increase business with the creditor, I dont see a hard pull as servicing the needs of either party.

 

On the subject of CCC policy changes, I have an AT&T/CITI Universal Platimun Master Card that I have held for 15 years.  No lates, ever.  $14K CL.  Current % util, as it has been for a long time, is well below 10%.  They recently notified me that they were instituting an annual fee on the card of $35.  They say that this fee will  be refunded to me after one year if I charge an average of at least $1,000 a month on the card over the next year.  That to me is just plain extortion.

 


I believe there is logic to their madness.

 

Asking for a CLI is requesting / seeking additional credit.  Making it a hard INQ is simply making sure that the scoring system takes this into consideration.

 

 

IAALBNYL
Contributor
xchap
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎01-23-2008
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Yes i ask chase for a credit increase of $1000.   i have a $4000. flex CC they said it will require a hard pull.

i went ahead and did it.(i might have been drunk) and it was denied .i received a letter sometime the same week saying i was approve and my new CL is $5000.00 ok cool cost me a inquiry.

 

i called addison to get a credit limit increase and the same thing they wouldn't do it with out a hard pulled......

so yes i believe where in the new game now ........(i cancel the request)

 

first inquiry for 2010   sucks but ......................


Starting Score: 760
Current Score: 760
Goal Score: 800


Take the FICO Fitness Challenge
Established Contributor
Itsmeagain
Posts: 832
Registered: ‎01-16-2008
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

 


O6 wrote:

I believe there is logic to their madness.

 Asking for a CLI is requesting / seeking additional credit.  Making it a hard INQ is simply making sure that the scoring system takes this into consideration.

 

 


 

06, I have been trying all day to come up with a legitimate argument for your logic but can't.  It makes perfect sense but it just doesn't seem right.  We take the hit for the original application and new account; why can't they just update their information by getting a soft?  It STILL seems punitive to me.

 


Starting Score: TU 737 EQ 721
Current Score: TU 741 EQ 741
Goal Score: TU 765 EQ 760


Take the FICO Fitness Challenge
Super Contributor
MidnightVoice
Posts: 8,158
Registered: ‎03-25-2007
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?


Itsmeagain wrote:

 

06, I have been trying all day to come up with a legitimate argument for your logic but can't.  It makes perfect sense but it just doesn't seem right.  We take the hit for the original application and new account; why can't they just update their information by getting a soft?  It STILL seems punitive to me.

 


A hard inq tells other lenders you were actually attempting to increase your credit.  I differentaites between asking for more and just having a current lender or prospective lender seeing what you look like.  It also leaves a record if you were denied.

 

So I believe there are some reasons why it is done.

The slide from grace is really more like gliding
And I've found the trick is not to stop the sliding
But to find a graceful way of staying slid
Senior Contributor
smallfry
Posts: 4,831
Registered: ‎04-20-2007
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

 


MidnightVoice wrote:

Itsmeagain wrote:

 

06, I have been trying all day to come up with a legitimate argument for your logic but can't.  It makes perfect sense but it just doesn't seem right.  We take the hit for the original application and new account; why can't they just update their information by getting a soft?  It STILL seems punitive to me.

 


A hard inq tells other lenders you were actually attempting to increase your credit.  I differentaites between asking for more and just having a current lender or prospective lender seeing what you look like.  It also leaves a record if you were denied.

 

So I believe there are some reasons why it is done.


 

I didn't know they were in the business of alerting other creditors that you have been asking for CLI.

 

Senior Contributor
O6
Posts: 3,626
Registered: ‎10-13-2009
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?


Itsmeagain wrote:

 


O6 wrote:

I believe there is logic to their madness.

 Asking for a CLI is requesting / seeking additional credit.  Making it a hard INQ is simply making sure that the scoring system takes this into consideration.

 

 


 

06, I have been trying all day to come up with a legitimate argument for your logic but can't.  It makes perfect sense but it just doesn't seem right.  We take the hit for the original application and new account; why can't they just update their information by getting a soft?  It STILL seems punitive to me.

 


 

I agree with you.  I would be the last one to defend a creditor in today's climate and considering that they have traditionally issued CLIs on data obtained from a soft pull, I can only see that now requiring a hard pull does seem abusive. 

 

Still, their logic is going to be that "We were wrong to only use softs before.  A hard is indicitive of seeking new or increased credit and should appear as such on a credit report."  It's only a short step, IMO, from them doing a hard for a CLI not requested by a cardholder. 

IAALBNYL
Moderator Emeritus
beamMEup
Posts: 4,473
Registered: ‎12-31-2008
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?


Itsmeagain wrote:

I have recently (since Feb. 22),  requested CLI's from the following:

Discover

Chase

Kroger 1-2-3

BoA

Best Buy (both store and RZMC)

Alliant

 

The only one who said it would not be a hard pull was BoA (2,500 CLI).  I declined the others to avoid the hard pull.

 

It appears that the rules have changed boyz and girlz.  Get ready for some amazing NEW tricks to be introduced that will further limit the attraction to credit cards, such as lower (or NO), rewards, higher interest rates, fewer CLI's.

 

Any others with similar experiences?  What are your feelings about these new, tightened rules?  Are the "Good Times" over . . . . When one could MAKE money using credit?

 

 


 

DH has Alliant.  My understanding is that their CLI's have been hard pulls since before the new CC laws. 

 

Luckily, in his case, Alliant was pretty generous with the initial CL, so we haven't requested additional CLI's because of the hard pull policy.  It'll be interesting to see if they're giving out any CLI's at all.  We'll be watching........

Just puttin' syrup on something, don't make it pancakes.
Established Contributor
Itsmeagain
Posts: 832
Registered: ‎01-16-2008
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

[ Edited ]

This has been an interesting discussion and thanks to each one for their input!!!

 

From reading this thread and others, it appears that hard pulls for CLI's are going to be the "norm" for the immediate future so we had better just find a way to deal with it . . . . . . . Toto, I don't believe we're in Kansas anymore.

 

Too bad that the FICO scoring models aren't designed to weigh the inquiry with less emphasis placed on CLI requests vs. new credit applications.  That would seem to be the only fair solution for all parties.  After all, a new application for a credit product places a much heavier risk on the creditor than a CLI on an account that is established. 

 

The only considerations for the CLI should be:

 

  1. Has the customer demonstrated that they can manage the current limit along with their other obligations?
  2. Does the customer have ample funds available to manage a larger credit line?

The first question can be determined with a soft pull and does not pollute the customer's FICO score.  The second question can be answered by a simple income verification requirement (pay stubs, 1099's, bank statements, etc.).

 

As far as notifying other creditors that you have requested additional credit; that is just hogwash.  If your credit lines are increasing, it will be apparent on your CR (soft pull).  Are we to believe that technology doesn't exist and creditors do not compare one report against the last one they pulled?  Of course they do.  THAT should be where they get notification that we are getting higher limits, not by polluting our FICO score with useless hard inquiries.

 

And where in the new credit card law does it state that a CLI request requires a hard pull?  Several posters have mentioned that the CSR is referring to the new credit card law as their reason for requiring a hard pull?

 

(Note to beamMeup)  Yes, Alliant has always required a hard pull for ANY credit product, even new membership.


Starting Score: TU 737 EQ 721
Current Score: TU 741 EQ 741
Goal Score: TU 765 EQ 760


Take the FICO Fitness Challenge
Senior Contributor
O6
Posts: 3,626
Registered: ‎10-13-2009
0

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?


Itsmeagain wrote:

This has been an interesting discussion and thanks to each one for their input!!!

 

From reading this thread and others, it appears that hard pulls for CLI's are going to be the "norm" for the immediate future so we had better just find a way to deal with it . . . . . . . Toto, I don't believe we're in Kansas anymore.

 

Too bad that the FICO scoring models aren't designed to weigh the inquiry with less emphasis placed on CLI requests vs. new credit applications.  That would seem to be the only fair solution for all parties.  After all, a new application for a credit product places a much heavier risk on the creditor than a CLI on an account that is established. 

 

The only considerations for the CLI should be:

 

  1. Has the customer demonstrated that they can manage the current limit along with their other obligations?
  2. Does the customer have ample funds available to manage a larger credit line?

The first question can be determined with a soft pull and does not pollute the customer's FICO score.  The second question can be answered by a simple income verification requirement (pay stubs, 1099's, bank statements, etc.).

 

As far as notifying other creditors that you have requested additional credit; that is just hogwash.  If your credit lines are increasing, it will be apparent on your CR (soft pull).  Are we to believe that technology doesn't exist and creditors do not compare one report against the last one they pulled?  Of course they do.  THAT should be where they get notification that we are getting higher limits, not by polluting our FICO score with useless hard inquiries.

 

And where in the new credit card law does it state that a CLI request requires a hard pull?  Several posters have mentioned that the CSR is referring to the new credit card law as their reason for requiring a hard pull?

 

(Note to beamMeup)  Yes, Alliant has always required a hard pull for ANY credit product, even new membership.


1.  Can we say that even opening a new account shouldn't result in an INQ because one's other creditors can see the new account when it reports and that is when they should get notification?

 

2.  I'd also like to see where any new legislation requires a hard pull for a CLI.

IAALBNYL

myFICO is the consumer division of FICO. Since its introduction 20 years ago, the FICO® Score has become a global standard for measuring credit risk in the banking, mortgage, credit card, auto and retail industries. 90 of the top 100 largest U.S. financial institutions use the FICO Score to make consumer credit decisions.

>> About myFICO
FICO Score - The Score that matters
Click to Verify - This site chose VeriSign SSL for secure e-commerce and confidential communications.
Fair Isaac Corporation is a BBB Accredited Financial Service in San Rafael, CA
FOLLOW US Social Media Facebook Twitter Pinterest Google+