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Senior Contributor
Posts: 13,221
Registered: ‎01-04-2014

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards


WaveRider wrote:

90% is high, but if his overall util was low wouldn't it be ok?  I've run cards at 90% many times without issue in the past before coming to this board and learning, though usually only say 8 or 9k on a 10k card.  40k is a different story, but was he at 25% overall or was it 50% overall with the 45k reporting, not sure.


We have some really sharp pencils in the sub-forums (Understanding FICO® Scoring) who can much better point out to some degree fairly accurate percentages on a PER CARD basis that affects FICO numbers (Penalty) but also different lenders at different times also make their own adjustments to their internal thresholds they set, as well as other parameters which can almost exclusively explain why such actions are taken and at what levels they allow before crashing accounts.

 

The issue for us as cardholders is that with those internal measurements from Lenders, they mostly keep those under wraps until time we bust through them and find out later.

 

Even at 25% overall Util. aggregate (as they call it i think) high utility "is easily and immediately a red flag" to most lenders IF i understand correctly what the guru's always indicate in that sub-forum.

 

Although it can and does vary, Lenders obviously hold to a lower threshold how they score things like that and at what point they take severe action like this one.

Last App-Jan 26* It's All In The Magic Of Your Own Destiny * FICO TU 769 EQ 723 EX 777
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,264
Registered: ‎01-09-2015

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards

So, that's a huge hit and sucks for the OP, my condolences.  That said, I feel like there are a lot of unanswered questions.

 

1. What types of charges were made on the card and what was the time-framde ($50k or whatever is alot of money)?  For example, 50k worth of gift cards would raise a lot of questions like MS or money laundering (incidentally, several card issuers asked me to fill out "know your client" questionaires in the past few weeks).  Not suggesting anything, but understanding what was purchased would be useful in understanding how a bank views it.

 

2. What funds were used to pay off the balance?  If it was a balance transfer of some type, especially to a newly opened account, it could signal kiting to banks.  Kiting goes way back before credit cards and has always been a signal of risk to banks.  I think check kiting is considered a felony.

 

3. Anything going on with your personal information?  There have been cases where people expeienced AA because they shared a similar name with someone else, or lived in an apartment complex with bad actors.  If it were me, I'd definitely be looking to make sure my personal info is accurate and secure.

 

If it were something credit-related, I think BofA might have CLD or balance chased.  To outright close across all accounts, that signals to me that something else triggered it (especially since OP said his profile has nothing negative).  If BofA really did this for no reason, that would be very strange.  I'd love to hear some more details so we can learn how to prevent something like this.

Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,608
Registered: ‎04-08-2015

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards

[ Edited ]

RockinRay wrote:

kugel wrote:
RockinRay Your saying pay in full
So basically we cant take advantage of the credit card
Lets just call it charge card like the green Amex

I always preach "pay in full"! Why give them any interest money?

 

Playing the rewards game is all about getting the rewards and not giving them back in the form of "interest" on any outstanding balance. I totally get that there are many on this forum that cannot do that. I have been there too. Fortunately today, I'm not in that position. But again, I have been there. At one time, we had outstanding CC balances in excess of $60,000. It took a long time to get that paid off but we persisted and we paid it all back. There was also a time when I made weekly payments to all credit cards to keep myself in check and not over spend.

 

I think if at all possible, everyone should consider any credit card to be a "charge card". As my signature below states, I assign a job to each of my cards and I let them do their job. My cards work for me, not the other way around.  Smiley Happy


And yet...many of the same posters who advocate the 100%-PIF philosophy have no issues with paying (even sometimes multiple) high AFs from as much as $300 - $450+ per card.  If a person is potentially not going to give the cc issuers money back in the form of interest, why not also give them no profits back in the form of AFs either?  How come AFs are considered sacrosanct but paying interest is considered sacrilege?  I very politely and respectfully (IME) differ from many posters here in that I would rather pay interest charges, if need be and if I elect to do so voluntarily, than to voluntarily pay any AF, ever.  Again, if a person is going to have to pay high AFs anyway, what's so bad about paying interest voluntarily under certain circumstances, instead of and as an alternative to paying one or more AFs?

Favorite Cards: BEFCU Platinum VISA @ 5.49% F, $4k ** Unify FCU Variable-Rate VISA Gold @ 5.74% V, $5k ** FNBO Amex @ 7.00% V, $20k ** PACU Premier Privileges Rewards MC @ 7.50% F, $10k ** Unify FCU Fixed-Rate VISA Platinum @ 8.99% F, $15k ** BoA Cash Rewards WMC @ 9.99% F, $11.1k

Other Favorites:
Citi DC WMC @ 9.99% V, $15.82k ** Cap1 No Hassle Miles Ultra Platinum MC @ 10.65% V, $2.5k ** FNBO BucksBack VS @ 11.75% V, $20k ** BBR @ 14.74% V, $12k ** FNBO Amex TravElite @ 16.24% V, $10k ** Blispay, $5k
Established Contributor
Posts: 653
Registered: ‎08-12-2014

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards

@ galahad I've often wondered that myself.
My guess, there is no prestige with paying interest, but a shiny metal card to impress the ladys...well...
New Contributor
Posts: 387
Registered: ‎02-07-2017

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards


galahad15 wrote:

RockinRay wrote:

kugel wrote:
RockinRay Your saying pay in full
So basically we cant take advantage of the credit card
Lets just call it charge card like the green Amex

I always preach "pay in full"! Why give them any interest money?

 

Playing the rewards game is all about getting the rewards and not giving them back in the form of "interest" on any outstanding balance. I totally get that there are many on this forum that cannot do that. I have been there too. Fortunately today, I'm not in that position. But again, I have been there. At one time, we had outstanding CC balances in excess of $60,000. It took a long time to get that paid off but we persisted and we paid it all back. There was also a time when I made weekly payments to all credit cards to keep myself in check and not over spend.

 

I think if at all possible, everyone should consider any credit card to be a "charge card". As my signature below states, I assign a job to each of my cards and I let them do their job. My cards work for me, not the other way around.  Smiley Happy


And yet...many of the same posters who advocate the 100%-PIF philosophy have no issues with paying (even sometimes multiple) high AFs from as much as $300 - $450+ per card.  If a person is potentially not going to give the cc issuers money back in the form of interest, why not also give them no profits back in the form of AFs either?  How come AFs are considered sacrosanct but paying interest is considered sacrilege?  I very politely and respectfully (IME) differ from many posters here in that I would rather pay interest charges, if need be and if I elect to do so voluntarily, than to voluntarily pay any AF, ever.  Again, if a person is going to have to pay high AFs anyway, what's so bad about paying interest voluntarily under certain circumstances, instead of and as an alternative to paying one or more AFs?


I was going to say something like this, but you beat me to it. I have a hard time understanding why some people are so resistant to paying interest on credit cards yet have no problem paying interest on other types of loans - whether car, mortgage, student or personal. (At any rate, I've never noticed anyone saying that you should never pay the interest on any of those other types of loans but always PIF - which can be a bit difficult for a 5-figure loan!) The way I see it, credit-card issuers, like issuers for any other type of loan, expect to make profit from the money they lend by the charging of interest. If they don't get any interest, they don't make any money from the card (excluding annual fees, and I know that a lot of people here and elsewhere advise others to steer clear of cards that charge AF's, even if they're not exorbitant/gouging like that Verve junk) then one might reasonably ask, what's the point to issuing a card if you're not going to make money from it?

 

In fact, I'm going to be radical here and say that taking PIF to its extreme and doing it all the time so that your card's issuer never sees a cent in interest from the money they've lent you may be, in some ways, just as bad as running up your utilization to 90% and only ever paying minimum to barely keep your head above water (and I have first-hand experience of doing the latter in the bad old days!) I'm saying here - as I've said elsewhere - that it might just be that credit-card issuers feel better about account holders who carry a modest balance on their cards, use them actively but never let their utilization get out of control, and make good-sized payments well above the minimum required but manage their cards so that the issuer earns the interest they're expecting to earn. I submit that, possibly contrary to conventional wisdom, lenders may like those kinds of consumers better and will be more willing to open new cards for them and grant them increases on their credit lines in due season.

Rebuilding credit since 2015 (BK filed 8/14, discharged 12/14) - started out in 570's, now approaching 700 (FICO 4/17:TU 627/EX 662/EQ 659 FICO 8 690 NG 2, VS 3.0 4/21/17: TU 684/EX 684/EQ 691)! $951 Cap One secured/$3000 Cap One unsecured/$800 Amazon Prime Store Card/$2500 Discover It (NEW 03-21-17)/$10k PenFed used car loan/$5k Navient student loan. In the garden until Sept. 2017 unless I get an offer I can't possibly refuse...
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,608
Registered: ‎04-08-2015

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards

Sorry, forgot to mention in my earlier message above:  my sincere sympathies to the OP for the very unfair and unwarranted AA taken by BoA.

Favorite Cards: BEFCU Platinum VISA @ 5.49% F, $4k ** Unify FCU Variable-Rate VISA Gold @ 5.74% V, $5k ** FNBO Amex @ 7.00% V, $20k ** PACU Premier Privileges Rewards MC @ 7.50% F, $10k ** Unify FCU Fixed-Rate VISA Platinum @ 8.99% F, $15k ** BoA Cash Rewards WMC @ 9.99% F, $11.1k

Other Favorites:
Citi DC WMC @ 9.99% V, $15.82k ** Cap1 No Hassle Miles Ultra Platinum MC @ 10.65% V, $2.5k ** FNBO BucksBack VS @ 11.75% V, $20k ** BBR @ 14.74% V, $12k ** FNBO Amex TravElite @ 16.24% V, $10k ** Blispay, $5k
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2,041
Registered: ‎08-13-2007

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards


galahad15 wrote:

RockinRay wrote:

kugel wrote:
RockinRay Your saying pay in full
So basically we cant take advantage of the credit card
Lets just call it charge card like the green Amex

I always preach "pay in full"! Why give them any interest money?

 

Playing the rewards game is all about getting the rewards and not giving them back in the form of "interest" on any outstanding balance. I totally get that there are many on this forum that cannot do that. I have been there too. Fortunately today, I'm not in that position. But again, I have been there. At one time, we had outstanding CC balances in excess of $60,000. It took a long time to get that paid off but we persisted and we paid it all back. There was also a time when I made weekly payments to all credit cards to keep myself in check and not over spend.

 

I think if at all possible, everyone should consider any credit card to be a "charge card". As my signature below states, I assign a job to each of my cards and I let them do their job. My cards work for me, not the other way around.  Smiley Happy


And yet...many of the same posters who advocate the 100%-PIF philosophy have no issues with paying (even sometimes multiple) high AFs from as much as $300 - $450+ per card.  If a person is potentially not going to give the cc issuers money back in the form of interest, why not also give them no profits back in the form of AFs either?  How come AFs are considered sacrosanct but paying interest is considered sacrilege?  I very politely and respectfully (IME) differ from many posters here in that I would rather pay interest charges, if need be and if I elect to do so voluntarily, than to voluntarily pay any AF, ever.  Again, if a person is going to have to pay high AFs anyway, what's so bad about paying interest voluntarily under certain circumstances, instead of and as an alternative to paying one or more AFs?


I respect your position here for sure. In my case, I have a Delta Plat Amex. I pay the $195 AF on this card because of the $99 companion voucher we get each year. Based on where we travel, this has always worked to our advantage. I also have an arrival + and pay that fee out of a business account. So, I am one of the guilty ones!

 

Voluntary interest is something that I have also paid when I was in way over my head. Those days are now long gone fortunately.

Ray

** Every Card has a Job, and Every Card does its Job **

Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,266
Registered: ‎08-12-2012
0

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards


galahad15 wrote:

RockinRay wrote:

kugel wrote:
RockinRay Your saying pay in full
So basically we cant take advantage of the credit card
Lets just call it charge card like the green Amex

I always preach "pay in full"! Why give them any interest money?

 

Playing the rewards game is all about getting the rewards and not giving them back in the form of "interest" on any outstanding balance. I totally get that there are many on this forum that cannot do that. I have been there too. Fortunately today, I'm not in that position. But again, I have been there. At one time, we had outstanding CC balances in excess of $60,000. It took a long time to get that paid off but we persisted and we paid it all back. There was also a time when I made weekly payments to all credit cards to keep myself in check and not over spend.

 

I think if at all possible, everyone should consider any credit card to be a "charge card". As my signature below states, I assign a job to each of my cards and I let them do their job. My cards work for me, not the other way around.  Smiley Happy


And yet...many of the same posters who advocate the 100%-PIF philosophy have no issues with paying (even sometimes multiple) high AFs from as much as $300 - $450+ per card.  If a person is potentially not going to give the cc issuers money back in the form of interest, why not also give them no profits back in the form of AFs either?  How come AFs are considered sacrosanct but paying interest is considered sacrilege?  I very politely and respectfully (IME) differ from many posters here in that I would rather pay interest charges, if need be and if I elect to do so voluntarily, than to voluntarily pay any AF, ever.  Again, if a person is going to have to pay high AFs anyway, what's so bad about paying interest voluntarily under certain circumstances, instead of and as an alternative to paying one or more AFs?


I personally would never have a card with an AF, and do not ever pay interest. I can understand someone getting a card with an AF, if it is like the CSR, and the net return is you recieve more cash back than the AF due to an insanely high SUB, but then you have to churn and burn. I am a strong advocate in using a credit card as if it were a charge card, especially a high rewards card. If someone is going to carry a balance at least find a low interest rate card. I do have one card that carries a balance and interest is paid on...just not by me. I have a 6.99% interest card my sister is AU on and all the card charges are hers, and she pays the bill. All the other cards are PIF always.


TU fico08=814 4/23/17
EX fico08=803 4/23/17
EQ fico08=804 4/23/17
Garden since 4/5/2017

Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,054
Registered: ‎02-23-2015
0

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards


Aduke1122 wrote:
This is a tough one so sorry Op ,seems like everyday that passes more and more of these threads pop up and it makes me have a sinking feeling in my stomach that something big is about to happen and with me being "new" to the credit card world it just makes me worry even more bc I don't have a nice long history as most of you guys have . It sucks they don't even take your history into account when doing these AA's

It's understandable to get uneasy and even panic when you see a major AA like this from BofA, I know I used to get uneasy when I would see AA from Chase. However, it is important to keep perspective, Bofa has 80 million+ credit cards in circulation, even if they decided to close 3,000 high risk accounts for example, that would still be an insignificant blip. I haven't seen any indications of a major strategic shift with Bofa in regards with risk mitigation. Also no reports of AA on other forums like FT and others that I can see.

Gardening until September 2018
Next app: Mortgage in September 2018
Super Contributor
Posts: 14,802
Registered: ‎04-22-2013

Re: Bank of America just closed $63K of my credit cards


galahad15 wrote:

RockinRay wrote:

kugel wrote:
RockinRay Your saying pay in full
So basically we cant take advantage of the credit card
Lets just call it charge card like the green Amex

I always preach "pay in full"! Why give them any interest money?

 

Playing the rewards game is all about getting the rewards and not giving them back in the form of "interest" on any outstanding balance. I totally get that there are many on this forum that cannot do that. I have been there too. Fortunately today, I'm not in that position. But again, I have been there. At one time, we had outstanding CC balances in excess of $60,000. It took a long time to get that paid off but we persisted and we paid it all back. There was also a time when I made weekly payments to all credit cards to keep myself in check and not over spend.

 

I think if at all possible, everyone should consider any credit card to be a "charge card". As my signature below states, I assign a job to each of my cards and I let them do their job. My cards work for me, not the other way around.  Smiley Happy


And yet...many of the same posters who advocate the 100%-PIF philosophy have no issues with paying (even sometimes multiple) high AFs from as much as $300 - $450+ per card.  If a person is potentially not going to give the cc issuers money back in the form of interest, why not also give them no profits back in the form of AFs either?  How come AFs are considered sacrosanct but paying interest is considered sacrilege?  I very politely and respectfully (IME) differ from many posters here in that I would rather pay interest charges, if need be and if I elect to do so voluntarily, than to voluntarily pay any AF, ever.  Again, if a person is going to have to pay high AFs anyway, what's so bad about paying interest voluntarily under certain circumstances, instead of and as an alternative to paying one or more AFs?


You raise this from time to time, and I had hoped we had convinced you, but clearly not.    To me it's very basic, it might be worth spending money if you get back more than you spend.

 

Now that COULD apply to credit card interest as well, it's just unlikely outside of 0% APR periods.    But, if I had say a 4% APR, and I had a (nearly)guaranteed way of making 8% with no limit, then yes, it would make sense for me to pay the 4% rather than PIF, and use the money not PIFs to get 8%.       But with cc APRs fairly high, such opportunities are rare.

 

Then for AF there are cards like Amex BCP, where you can see for a fee of $95, you can get back $180 more than you would on the free BCE, for a net gain of $85  (just considering grocery benefit here).   Usually money spend paying cc interest doesn't buy anything.

 

On the more expensive cards, there are other benefits.   With the Prestige 4th night free, SOME people get fantastic value, many times the AF.   And similarly for some other cards, that allow transfers, it's not all about the sign up bonus, even though sometimes, like with the CSR, they are fantastic.

 

So it is a false equivalence, it's not, as you have sometimes put it, pay upfront (AF) or pay later (interest), you are getting different things, usually value greater than the fee (or you shouldn't be doing it!) vs  not very much in the case of interest.

 

Roughly, I could use the money to buy something at the supermarket, or I could be mugged and have all my money taken.  From your arguement, it would suggest these outcomes are about the same, I don't have the money at the end in either case.

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