07-10-2013 08:13 AM
I don't understand why it is absurd for me to be upset that their business model sucks? It does suck. I'd say about 60% of their customers thinks it sucks.
The fact that they continue to come out with new products is because they clearly see a lot of their customers are unhappy. That being said, I don't understand why they don't revise their policies which are causing the unhappiness, rather than just creating new products.
They are number five or six for biggest card issuer in the United States, so their business model must suck in a good way. Other lenders also come out with new products because people do want new things and not only have the same offerings for the enxt ten years.
I will say that they are not the only lender that won't increase a limit if payments have not been made or if the card hasn't been used. Macy's and US Bank I know don't increase if the card hasn't had a few payments made to it prior to the request. It's understandable that you don't want to use the card if the limit is so low, but there have to be expenses that are small enough to put on the card. You could buy some groceries with and for three months and the next time you ask you should get it. If I were an issuer, I wouldn't give an increase to someone who didn't use the card either.
07-10-2013 08:25 AM
They are number 5 or 6 issuer because of the subprime cards they hand out.. which is fine, it's a lucrative business.. I understand that. That being said though, what about the prime rate customers? They are not the number 5 or 6 issuer because of rewards, customer service quality, limits or anything else that would put other lenders on that same list..
When I talked to the EO, the rep said and addmitted that a lot of customers were complaining about the intital contact with the company regarding CLI and other requests. They are rolling out a new model and trying new things he said. Other than the CLI button, I have yet to see anything different.
Right, but a store card is different. And US bank typically closes your account of inactivity anyway. So what about when the card was used regulary? Still no CLI. On top of it, it's not like they don't see the usage is has from year to year.. even 5 years ago. As a lender, if I saw they weren't using the account, I'd try to figure out why. I would also suspect that if they wanted a CLI on a card they haven't used, it's because they WANT to use the card. I don't typically think lender usually think the customers are that concerned with their UTL ratio.
Of course I could put little expenses on the card.. and I honestly probably would if their customer service wasn't so poor. The reps never have the power to do anything.. nothing ever changes. I wanted rewards, why can't that happen? Because the credit card agreement can't change?? Why not? Other lenders change your cards all the time. They don't need a computer to automatically offer it. There's no discretion with Capital One.. It's all computers making the decisions. Yes I understand it makes them money and they issue cards like candy.. but sooner or later it's going to bite them in the rear end. It's the exact same business model as Providian was remember? The only way they survived was by WaMu buying them.. and then of course Chase took it over after that.. and now Chase won't even bother giving out a card to someone with a blemish on their CR. It might make you money.. but it doesn't earn you a good reputation. Capital One tries so hard with their Venture cards and signature visas... that's almost all they advertise. They want to hit the customer base so bad.. but when they currently have customers who are IN that customer base, they ignore them? Instead they just spend millions advertising for them? I don't get it. it's stupid. They have customers that would qualify for those cards if they weren't put into the corner with a dunce cap on because 10 years ago their credit was poor and opened a subprime card with them.
07-10-2013 08:43 AM
Well I was speaking of the Macy's American Express,not the store card. I understand everything you are saying, but it just seems to be what Capital One wants. I actually don't remember Providian because I'm only 22 and just got into this whole rewards stuff about one and a half years ago. I do remember reading that Chase treated customers who came from Washington Mutual very poorly and I suppose that was because Washington Mutual approved people with less than perfect credit.
Capital One's "prime" cards do get better service than the other ones and that is like most companies. I don't really know if I agree with them always keeping the lower level customers downthere without applying for a new card, but perhaps they are changing that too. I believe they just got into offering good rewards cards so it may take them a while to get things right. American Express was kind of the same way about denying someone that had a hard limit Zync another American Express card until the hard limit Zync was cancelled.
In the end, every lender is different. Believe me, I have complained about wonkiness at lenders aswell, so you are not alone. It's their money, so if they don't want to lend it to us, all we can do it say OK. I was told the same thing as you by US Bank. They gave me 1500 when I had lines many more times that. I was going to use it every month for usage, but stopped after the first month. I asked for an increase after six months and after a hard inquiry they told me I had only made one payment so the increase was declined. I was obviously upset that they still did an inquiry, but oh well. I received two business pre approvals from them around the same time and received an almost instant approval of 12,500 on both of them. Talk about wonky.
07-10-2013 08:53 AM
There's no discretion with Capital One.. It's all computers making the decisions. Yes I understand it makes them money and they issue cards like candy.. but sooner or later it's going to bite them in the rear end.
I agree that there is no discretion, but I don't think it's going to cause them any trouble. Cap One is very much a success story as a business. Yes, they DO want to expand into the prime market, but that is very competitive and so they may not succeed there in the short/medium or even long term, but their core business profi allows them to fail there at least to some extent.
And, apart from CLs, things like the Quicksilver are among the best in class (Simple 1.5% everywhere, no FTF. No EMV chip yet for whatever reason, but all Cap One UK cards for example are Chip and Pin, so they really do know how to do this!).
They are a pain to deal with, but as a prime user, you have lots of alternatives. The real pain is in subprime, where Cap One is one of the better choices, with easy to get cards, and then the inflexibility hurts when you are not yet able to move up.
07-10-2013 09:04 AM
Canceling the card would be silly as it is an older tradeline.. but using it would also be silly as the limit is useless to us.
This is the reason why Capital One doesn't need to be receptive to your requests--they don't have to be.
As you've said, it's business and increasing shareholder value along with meeting next quarters earnings estimate is more important than spending the resources to address your concern, regardless of merit.
Because of the AAOA beneftis you derive, it's in your self interest to keep it open; just as it's in Cap One's interest to not bother with your account, unless it's profitable. If I were running Cap One, the moment your account becomes more expensive to maintain, I'd charge you an annual fee forcing you to either fire yourself and lose the AAOA, or make me some money.
07-10-2013 09:47 AM
Right, I agree with all three of you.. but my main concern is the fact that they do label my account, as well as my wife's account as subprime.. and any account I've opened with them since them has also been labeled as such.. which of course I closed them right away. It's the fact that they are trying to succeed in the prime rate market with their veture cards and the new quicksilver signature cards.. they spend millions advertising to obtain those prime rate customers when they could save a lot of that advertising and look at their current customer base as myself. What costs more money? To advertise to obtain new customers, or look at your current customers and upgrade them.. make them want to use their product?
They don't have to raise my limit, right.. but if they did, I would probably use the card.. which would probably make them money. With that in mind, as you mentioned spending resources to address my concerns.. that's not a business model that succeed for very long, is it? Like I mentioned before, Providian. They had the same business model.. and why did they fail? Not because it wasn't lucrative giving out cards to the sub prime base.. because it is.. they failed because their customer service was horrible, and their customer retention rate dropped because of it. Regardless that Capital One does give out cards to the sub prime and it is fairly easy.. as soon as another lender offers a better subprime card that is easy to get and becomes well known, Capital One is done for. I know that even when I had a legitimate issue to get fixed with Capital One, the reps are useless. They outsource their reps to India.. to reps who don't speak very good English and are really just there for show since they don't have the power to do anything. What does that tell you? That they could care less about customer service. Regardless of credit limit increases or product changes.. the bottom line is they don't care about the customer. It's all about making money from outrageous interest and fees. That business model will fail.. regardless of what they rank in terms of card issuers.
Someone mentioned their UK cards. While it does carry the same name.. it is a separate business all together as far as numbers, advertising, products, policies and customer base... They may very well be a 'prime' lender in other countries.. but as far as here, they love their sub prime products. Mainly because Americans have an entitlement mentality and spend spend spend...
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