Reply
Senior Contributor
O6
Posts: 3,626
Registered: ‎10-13-2009

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....


LaserBlue wrote:

I have a big problem with my Cap1 card, and I'd like to know what you would do in my situation.

 

The short story:  I have lots of cards and PIF them all every month.  Somebody I trusted with my Cap1 card went bats**t crazy and ran up a fortune in junk charges, and Cap1 cays, "Sorry, you're SOL"

 

The long story: A girl that I have known all my life got into a temporary financial jam waiting to start a new job a couple of months ago, so I loaned her my card to buy essentials like groceries and gas for a few weeks until she got some income started, and then she was to pay the balance.  The card had a $1250 limit and no balance when I gave it to her.  A month later I get an e-mail that my card is over the limit, and when I pull my statement she has run up over $1500 in 4 weeks.  Most of it is junk... cell phones, hotels, restaurants, convenience stores, etc.  I was flabbergasted that somebody I thought I knew could be so irresponsible.  How anybody with no rent and no car payment can blow nearly $400 a week for 4 weeks straight just boggles my mind.

 

So anyway, I don't really care that much about the Cap1 account because it's junk anyway.  That's why I don't use it and loaned it to her in the first place.  But they've now reported to all 3 bureaus that my card has gone from a $0 balance to $250 over limit in one month, and I'm afraid that one of my prime cards - like Amex, Discover, Chase, Citi, etc. - will see it and flip out on me.  So I called Cap1 right away and explained what's happened, and ask if either they can increase the limit on the card so that it won't show overlimit, or alternatively I offered to pay the balance IN FULL right then if they would report again immediately (I have the cash to do that if I need to, as a last resort).  Know what I got?  A giant middle finger, figuratively speaking.

 

So I contact her and tell her that I need $300 right away to get the card under the limit, and you can imagine how that went.  We're now seriously on the outs over this (and some other stuff), and I figure she's going to stiff me for the money.  I'm weighing my options.  I just called Cap1 to talk about possibly either disputing the charges or doing a copy request with the merchants in question.  I figure my beef is not really with Cap1 or with the merchants (although they should have ID'd her before accepting the card!), but if I have to take her to court I'd like to have copies of the receipts in my hand and Cap1 is in a position to do that for me via a copy request.  Not a dispute, just a copy request.  They tell me that they WILL NOT let me dispute the charges because they're not fraudulent (even though I never authorized anything except gas and groceries), and they will charge me $14 PER TRANSACTION for a copy request on 66 transactions.  I've never heard such crap. I was proactive and up front with them from the minute I realized what had happened, and they esentially told me it's my problem, and bye.

 

They absolutely don't care, and words just can't describe how livid I am at their absolute refusal to lift a finger to help me.  They act like I'm bothering them by even calling about it.  So what I'm considering is a BT to my >10,000 CL Citi card that has a way better interest rate anyway (since Citi likes to send me BT offers so often, even though I'm clearly not a balance carrier!)  I figure 1500 on a card with a 10,000 limit looks a lot better on my reports than a maxed out, low limit card.  And I'm not ready to pay it right now either, becauseit's not my bill.

 

The only thing I'm sure of is that Cap1 gets closed at the end of this story because of their attitude.  So how would you proceed here?


 

Sadly, you've learned an expensive lesson.  Any time you let someone use your credit or debit card you are legally responsible for the charges.  The credit card company is not a party to the agreement between you and your friend. 

 

Merchants are not obligated and are, in fact, even prohibited according to Visa and MasterCard rules from asking for ID unless they suspect fraud.  Even so, you gave the card to your friend so the merchant is off the hook.

 

It is unfortunate that CrapOne charges $14 for a copy of the sales voucher.  The vouchers could come in handy to prove who actually signed for each purchase should you eventually sue your friend.  Even should you sue her and win, do you think you could collect on any judgment?  That's one of the multiple questions you need to ask yourself before you invest $14 for each voucher copy you request. 

 

While you are deciding what to do to recover the $$ from your friend, I'd be very worried that when your other creditors do their monthly account review that they don't decide to cut your credit limits or hike your interest rates.  I'd at least pay CrapOne enough to bring the account under the limit while thinking about what further steps to take to squeeze your friend for money.

IAALBNYL
Valued Contributor
Uborrow-Upay
Posts: 2,710
Registered: ‎10-16-2008

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....

LaserBlue, I have sent you a private message.

 

Your reply via private message is required.

 

Please let me know ASAP.

Established Contributor
cdtotten
Posts: 951
Registered: ‎05-27-2009

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....

Unfortunately, I too agree that Capital One was right to respond the way they did. They are not responsible as the card was not stolen. You willingly gave your CC to another person (effectively making them an AU) and allowed them to make charges on your account. She may have ran up charges, but that is a risk you took giving her the card. They are legit charges to your account, and you are unfortunately responsible for them.

 

I would seek remedy in small claims court if you cannot get her to pay back the debt, but get that balance paid off quickly before it ripples through to other creditors. 

 

Hard lesson to learn, but you won't make the same mistake again!


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Senior Contributor
txjohn
Posts: 4,214
Registered: ‎09-12-2008

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....

Very sorry to hear the story.

 

1.  Anytime you authorize another party to use your card, you are financially responsible and required to pay the CCC and bill

2.  You should seek an amicable resolution with your friend, if you can.  By attacking her/him immediately, you may cause them to take a "screw you" emotional position and refuse to pay/help pay because you "pissed them off."

3.  You can contact the merchants and request 2 things:  1)  a copy of the signature or 2) a copy of the shipment record showing the address the item was shipped to.  This would substantiate who made the charge or who the item was shipped to.

 

YOUR REAL PROBLEM:

 

You might not be able to win in court.  You authorized this person to use your card.  Your friend may state your agreement was that you had given permission to use the card and the use was "a gift" and that no agreement to repay existed.

 

So, while you may be able to prove they made the charges or items were shipped to them, you may not be able to convince the court that you had an agreement they would pay the charges they made.  You might win, but I'm just saying that nothing in court is guaranteed.  And you don't, I assume, have a written agreement stating terms of use between you and your friend.

 

QUESTIONS:  Was this friend living with you?  Is this just a friend, or was it a girl/boyfriend?  Have you any proof of this person using the card and then repaying you or the charges in the past (shows a precedent of useage and agreement to repay).

 

DON'T get mad and act out of that anger.  Think this through.  Your best and least costly method is to get your friend to voluntarily make payments or pay it off.

 

Did you have a falling out?  Was this possibly your friends retribution or pay back for any dispute or fight between you?  What their temperment is has a lot to do with what you response will have to be.

 

Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

:smileyindifferent:

 

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09/03/2009 TU: 777, EQ: 776 ($8 balance on an account dropped me out of 780's)
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05/18/2005 TU: 563, EQ: 580, EX: 549
Senior Contributor
txjohn
Posts: 4,214
Registered: ‎09-12-2008

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....

[ Edited ]

O6 wrote:

LaserBlue wrote:

I have a big problem with my Cap1 card, and I'd like to know what you would do in my situation.

 

The short story:  I have lots of cards and PIF them all every month.  Somebody I trusted with my Cap1 card went bats**t crazy and ran up a fortune in junk charges, and Cap1 cays, "Sorry, you're SOL"

 

The long story: A girl that I have known all my life got into a temporary financial jam waiting to start a new job a couple of months ago, so I loaned her my card to buy essentials like groceries and gas for a few weeks until she got some income started, and then she was to pay the balance.  The card had a $1250 limit and no balance when I gave it to her.  A month later I get an e-mail that my card is over the limit, and when I pull my statement she has run up over $1500 in 4 weeks.  Most of it is junk... cell phones, hotels, restaurants, convenience stores, etc.  I was flabbergasted that somebody I thought I knew could be so irresponsible.  How anybody with no rent and no car payment can blow nearly $400 a week for 4 weeks straight just boggles my mind.

 

So anyway, I don't really care that much about the Cap1 account because it's junk anyway.  That's why I don't use it and loaned it to her in the first place.  But they've now reported to all 3 bureaus that my card has gone from a $0 balance to $250 over limit in one month, and I'm afraid that one of my prime cards - like Amex, Discover, Chase, Citi, etc. - will see it and flip out on me.  So I called Cap1 right away and explained what's happened, and ask if either they can increase the limit on the card so that it won't show overlimit, or alternatively I offered to pay the balance IN FULL right then if they would report again immediately (I have the cash to do that if I need to, as a last resort).  Know what I got?  A giant middle finger, figuratively speaking.

 

So I contact her and tell her that I need $300 right away to get the card under the limit, and you can imagine how that went.  We're now seriously on the outs over this (and some other stuff), and I figure she's going to stiff me for the money.  I'm weighing my options.  I just called Cap1 to talk about possibly either disputing the charges or doing a copy request with the merchants in question.  I figure my beef is not really with Cap1 or with the merchants (although they should have ID'd her before accepting the card!), but if I have to take her to court I'd like to have copies of the receipts in my hand and Cap1 is in a position to do that for me via a copy request.  Not a dispute, just a copy request.  They tell me that they WILL NOT let me dispute the charges because they're not fraudulent (even though I never authorized anything except gas and groceries), and they will charge me $14 PER TRANSACTION for a copy request on 66 transactions.  I've never heard such crap. I was proactive and up front with them from the minute I realized what had happened, and they esentially told me it's my problem, and bye.

 

They absolutely don't care, and words just can't describe how livid I am at their absolute refusal to lift a finger to help me.  They act like I'm bothering them by even calling about it.  So what I'm considering is a BT to my >10,000 CL Citi card that has a way better interest rate anyway (since Citi likes to send me BT offers so often, even though I'm clearly not a balance carrier!)  I figure 1500 on a card with a 10,000 limit looks a lot better on my reports than a maxed out, low limit card.  And I'm not ready to pay it right now either, becauseit's not my bill.

 

The only thing I'm sure of is that Cap1 gets closed at the end of this story because of their attitude.  So how would you proceed here?


 

Sadly, you've learned an expensive lesson.  Any time you let someone use your credit or debit card you are legally responsible for the charges.  The credit card company is not a party to the agreement between you and your friend. 

 

Merchants are not obligated and are, in fact, even prohibited according to Visa and MasterCard rules from asking for ID unless they suspect fraud.  Even so, you gave the card to your friend so the merchant is off the hook.

 

It is unfortunate that CrapOne charges $14 for a copy of the sales voucher.  The vouchers could come in handy to prove who actually signed for each purchase should you eventually sue your friend.  Even should you sue her and win, do you think you could collect on any judgment?  That's one of the multiple questions you need to ask yourself before you invest $14 for each voucher copy you request. 

 

While you are deciding what to do to recover the $$ from your friend, I'd be very worried that when your other creditors do their monthly account review that they don't decide to cut your credit limits or hike your interest rates.  I'd at least pay CrapOne enough to bring the account under the limit while thinking about what further steps to take to squeeze your friend for money.


 

Some companies I shop have a 100% ID policy to reduce fraud.  Some merchants ID randomly, and then others do 100% ID at certain dollar amounts or above.

 

I know for a fact (IME) that if a charge is disputed due to fraud, and it is ruled the merchant did not take reasonable precautions, including comparing signatures, etc., the merchant can end up eating a charge back.  The wise rule of thumb:  When in doubt, verify ID.

 

 

Message Edited by txjohn on 01-14-2010 08:04 AM

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09/03/2009 TU: 777, EQ: 776 ($8 balance on an account dropped me out of 780's)
03/28/2009 TU: 814, EQ: 810, EX: 781 (02/12/2009)
05/18/2005 TU: 563, EQ: 580, EX: 549
Established Contributor
cdtotten
Posts: 951
Registered: ‎05-27-2009

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....

Good article on requesting IDs for CC transactions.

 

Ask for ID?


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Super Contributor
DI
Posts: 5,767
Registered: ‎01-28-2008

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....

This is for anybody.  If one wants to lend a card let it be an AMEX card.  With AMEX, one can set spending limits on additional cards and not give access to one's maximum credit line. 
Moderator Emeritus
beamMEup
Posts: 4,473
Registered: ‎12-31-2008

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....

Remember, too, that even if she returned your card, she may well have a copy of your card number, exp date, and 3 digit code on the back.  She could keep you busy for a very long time.
Just puttin' syrup on something, don't make it pancakes.
Senior Contributor
O6
Posts: 3,626
Registered: ‎10-13-2009

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....


txjohn wrote:

O6 wrote:

LaserBlue wrote:

I have a big problem with my Cap1 card, and I'd like to know what you would do in my situation.

 

The short story:  I have lots of cards and PIF them all every month.  Somebody I trusted with my Cap1 card went bats**t crazy and ran up a fortune in junk charges, and Cap1 cays, "Sorry, you're SOL"

 

The long story: A girl that I have known all my life got into a temporary financial jam waiting to start a new job a couple of months ago, so I loaned her my card to buy essentials like groceries and gas for a few weeks until she got some income started, and then she was to pay the balance.  The card had a $1250 limit and no balance when I gave it to her.  A month later I get an e-mail that my card is over the limit, and when I pull my statement she has run up over $1500 in 4 weeks.  Most of it is junk... cell phones, hotels, restaurants, convenience stores, etc.  I was flabbergasted that somebody I thought I knew could be so irresponsible.  How anybody with no rent and no car payment can blow nearly $400 a week for 4 weeks straight just boggles my mind.

 

So anyway, I don't really care that much about the Cap1 account because it's junk anyway.  That's why I don't use it and loaned it to her in the first place.  But they've now reported to all 3 bureaus that my card has gone from a $0 balance to $250 over limit in one month, and I'm afraid that one of my prime cards - like Amex, Discover, Chase, Citi, etc. - will see it and flip out on me.  So I called Cap1 right away and explained what's happened, and ask if either they can increase the limit on the card so that it won't show overlimit, or alternatively I offered to pay the balance IN FULL right then if they would report again immediately (I have the cash to do that if I need to, as a last resort).  Know what I got?  A giant middle finger, figuratively speaking.

 

So I contact her and tell her that I need $300 right away to get the card under the limit, and you can imagine how that went.  We're now seriously on the outs over this (and some other stuff), and I figure she's going to stiff me for the money.  I'm weighing my options.  I just called Cap1 to talk about possibly either disputing the charges or doing a copy request with the merchants in question.  I figure my beef is not really with Cap1 or with the merchants (although they should have ID'd her before accepting the card!), but if I have to take her to court I'd like to have copies of the receipts in my hand and Cap1 is in a position to do that for me via a copy request.  Not a dispute, just a copy request.  They tell me that they WILL NOT let me dispute the charges because they're not fraudulent (even though I never authorized anything except gas and groceries), and they will charge me $14 PER TRANSACTION for a copy request on 66 transactions.  I've never heard such crap. I was proactive and up front with them from the minute I realized what had happened, and they esentially told me it's my problem, and bye.

 

They absolutely don't care, and words just can't describe how livid I am at their absolute refusal to lift a finger to help me.  They act like I'm bothering them by even calling about it.  So what I'm considering is a BT to my >10,000 CL Citi card that has a way better interest rate anyway (since Citi likes to send me BT offers so often, even though I'm clearly not a balance carrier!)  I figure 1500 on a card with a 10,000 limit looks a lot better on my reports than a maxed out, low limit card.  And I'm not ready to pay it right now either, becauseit's not my bill.

 

The only thing I'm sure of is that Cap1 gets closed at the end of this story because of their attitude.  So how would you proceed here?


 

Sadly, you've learned an expensive lesson.  Any time you let someone use your credit or debit card you are legally responsible for the charges.  The credit card company is not a party to the agreement between you and your friend. 

 

Merchants are not obligated and are, in fact, even prohibited according to Visa and MasterCard rules from asking for ID unless they suspect fraud.  Even so, you gave the card to your friend so the merchant is off the hook.

 

It is unfortunate that CrapOne charges $14 for a copy of the sales voucher.  The vouchers could come in handy to prove who actually signed for each purchase should you eventually sue your friend.  Even should you sue her and win, do you think you could collect on any judgment?  That's one of the multiple questions you need to ask yourself before you invest $14 for each voucher copy you request. 

 

While you are deciding what to do to recover the $$ from your friend, I'd be very worried that when your other creditors do their monthly account review that they don't decide to cut your credit limits or hike your interest rates.  I'd at least pay CrapOne enough to bring the account under the limit while thinking about what further steps to take to squeeze your friend for money.


 

Some companies I shop have a 100% ID policy to reduce fraud.  Some merchants ID randomly, and then others do 100% ID at certain dollar amounts or above.

 

I know for a fact (IME) that if a charge is disputed due to fraud, and it is ruled the merchant did not take reasonable precautions, including comparing signatures, etc., the merchant can end up eating a charge back.  The wise rule of thumb:  When in doubt, verify ID.

 

 

Message Edited by txjohn on 01-14-2010 08:04 AM

 

Merchants that ID run the very real possibility of being fined by their bank or having their ability to accept cards rescinded.

 

Yes, if a chargeback is initiated due to fraud, the merchant usually gets the short end of the stick.  But in OP's case, there is no fraud involved.  In any event, merchants are supposed to compare signatures, but this is pretty much useless.  If they compared aggressively then they'd spend all day on the phone calling in $2.78 transactions that turn out to be perfectly legitimate.

IAALBNYL
Established Contributor
Itsmeagain
Posts: 832
Registered: ‎01-16-2008

Re: Capital One no help with fraud.....

[ Edited ]

 


O6 wrote:

Merchants are not obligated and are, in fact, even prohibited according to Visa and MasterCard rules from asking for ID unless they suspect fraud.

This statement piqued my interest and since I am often asked for ID, I did some research. 

 

While the requirement for an ID is not "prohibited", it is not a legitimate reason for refusal to accept the card. 

 

From the Visa Merchants Agreement:

 

Visa Merchants Agreement

 

Requesting Cardholder ID
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? Although Visa
rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants
cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot
refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to
provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their
regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal
for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or
phone number, on a sales receipt.

 

 


From the MasterCard Merchants Agreement:

 

 

 MasterCard Card Acceptance

 

5.6.3 Additional Cardholder Identification
A Merchant must not refuse to complete a Transaction solely because a
Cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a Card at
the POI refuses to provide additional identification information, except as
specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A Merchant may require
additional identification from the Cardholder if the information is required to
complete the Transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A Merchant in a
country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address Verification
Service (AVS) may require the Cardholder’s ZIP or postal code to complete a
Cardholder-Activated Terminal (CAT) Transaction, or the Cardholder’s address
and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or e-commerce
Transaction.



However, since chargebacks are a real concern for merchants, many will ask for and ID.  I wonder what they would say if one just said "NO! I will not show you my ID".

 

 

 PS - Sorry for the thread hijack.  I hope your friend does the right thing and pays you back.


 

 

 

Message Edited by Itsmeagain on 01-14-2010 08:31 PM

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