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Cash out?

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Cash out?

It is not your money... to begin with... I have over hundreds of thousands in credit card lines with both US and UK banks. Never thought once as my own. I have about 8k in debt which i keep to make the banks happy (paying interest). After all this is the business and from the business aspect they want to make $$$ as well. Anyway, if one wants to take advantage of the system, then one should not even deserve to have this kind of credit line. If i were a bank I would be filing with DA office for criminal charges as well...

Message 31 of 38
longtimelurker
Epic Contributor

Re: Cash out?


@Kidcat wrote:

@longtimelurker wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

Sure it's an interesting theoretical question, but from the perspective of members here, who are generally working hard to rebuild their profiles (or even game the system), anyone who considers actually DOING it should be flogged, because it will cost honest people opportunities, and cost taxpayers money, etc., etc., etc.  If you were just out to rip off lenders, there are other sites more conducive to those sentiments. This is a site about learning how to maximize rewards and benefits within the confines of the credit scoring system, and how behaviors influence scores.

 

There is no ethical difference between the scenario you described and workplace embezzlement. In both cases, you build up trust in order to steal. Whether or not you "get away with it" there will be unpredictable and unanticipated negative effects besides negative marks on scores. Likely judgements, that don't go away, possible employment effects (more and more employers are requiring a good credit report to be deemed trustworthy for emlpoyment), increased rates for auto loans, insurance and other products, or even denials, due to poor credit.


Right, but a large number of people here rebuilding their credit HAVE in fact declared BK, which, while legal, does have costs to society as a whole.  So any abhorrence to the OP should be tempered with a small amount of whatever....


The difference is intent!  

 

Many people (I understand not all) had every intention of paying back the debts they incurred, and life (in my case a nasty divorce that lasted 2 years) got in the way.  There was no intent to no pay the debt prior to incurring.


I understand but was referring to the bolded bit.   As far as consequences to others, the intent hardly matters!

Message 32 of 38
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Cash out?


@Anonymous wrote:

@IgnatiusReilly wrote:

How is it fraud when it's your own credit cards and money?

 

I understand where you are coming from now, JaymesCheese.  Now may I borrow $5,000 of my money from you?  


Cheers!


If I was a bank, yes I would let you borrow $5000 from me if you have a good credit background and meet the requirements. If you happened to not pay me back, the law says I can only send you to collection. I really think we can all agree that the idea to maxed your all your credit cards and not pay back is bad. Just because I gave the worst scenario, everyone here is beginning to sound like lawyers. To answer the above about my statement: (How is it fraud when it's your own credit cards and money"  It is your own credit cards and money that bank authorized you to use, but if you choose not to pay back for whatsoever reasons, the bank will likely send you to collection. You can scream loud at me or disagree, it's just the law. It's a broken system than highly disagree with me. 

Message 33 of 38
iv
Valued Contributor

Re: Cash out?


@Anonymous wrote:

If I was a bank, yes I would let you borrow $5000 from me if you have a good credit background and meet the requirements. If you happened to not pay me back, the law says I can only send you to collection. I really think we can all agree that the idea to maxed your all your credit cards and not pay back is bad. Just because I gave the worst scenario, everyone here is beginning to sound like lawyers. To answer the above about my statement: (How is it fraud when it's your own credit cards and money"  It is your own credit cards and money that bank authorized you to use, but if you choose not to pay back for whatsoever reasons, the bank will likely send you to collection. You can scream loud at me or disagree, it's just the law. It's a broken system than highly disagree with me. 


They aren't beginning to sound like lawyers.... they are sounding ethical. (No offense to any lawyers present Smiley Tongue)

 

Sorry, but your claim that "the law says" someone can only be sent to collections for this kind of fraud is false.

 

Case in point:

 

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/queens-man-sentenced-200000-credit-card-bust-out-scam

 

$200k fraud, 18 months in jail and repayment.  Bank fraud == jail.

That goes for both cases of idenity theft and cases of abusing your "own" accounts.

 

Plenty of other cases out there of "own-account" and "organized ring" fraud that have been prosecuted.

EQ8:850 TU8:850 EX8:850
EQ9:847 TU9:847 EX9:839
EQ5:797 TU4:807 EX2:813 - 2021-06-06
Message 34 of 38
IgnatiusReilly
Regular Contributor

Re: Cash out?

"the bank will likely send you to collection"

 

Like a trout that knows better but falls for the lure anyway...

 

The financial system doesn't operate on M2, LIBOR, Fed Funds, or FOREX rates.  It operates on an overall sense of trust.  It is why US debt is backed by the full FAITH and credit of our government.  It also explains why high loss rate loans have a higher rate of interest; from an actuarial basis a financial institution knows what percent of a population will default, it just can't ascertain the specific individuals who will default so everyone has to pay more.

 

The idea that transparent fraud can be committed and only "sent to collecttion" is entirely possible but not likely.  It is a matter of scale and manifest intent.  Additionally, bank fraud is a federal offense and the Feds tend to get cranky about defrauding banks.  There is also a concept known as "moral hazard".

 

A successful economic system can't withstand a scheme by which gains are privatized and losses socialized which is what your hypothetical presupposes.

 

 

 

Message 35 of 38
sarge12
Senior Contributor

Re: Cash out?


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@IgnatiusReilly wrote:

How is it fraud when it's your own credit cards and money?

 

I understand where you are coming from now, JaymesCheese.  Now may I borrow $5,000 of my money from you?  


Cheers!


If I was a bank, yes I would let you borrow $5000 from me if you have a good credit background and meet the requirements. If you happened to not pay me back, the law says I can only send you to collection. I really think we can all agree that the idea to maxed your all your credit cards and not pay back is bad. Just because I gave the worst scenario, everyone here is beginning to sound like lawyers. To answer the above about my statement: (How is it fraud when it's your own credit cards and money"  It is your own credit cards and money that bank authorized you to use, but if you choose not to pay back for whatsoever reasons, the bank will likely send you to collection. You can scream loud at me or disagree, it's just the law. It's a broken system than highly disagree with me. 


If you tried to do this you would find out how strict BK trustees are. The amount the trustee recovers for creditors is paid to him as a percentage. You must answer questions he has under penalty of perjury. If you run up a CC and then lose your job the courts would not seek criminal charges because you intended to pay. If the courts see that you put a house on CC accounts then tried to file BK, the trustee would take the house for the creditors and dismiss the BK with prejudice. If you still owed the creditors would get a judgement against you. When you declare ch 7 all your property is actually turned over to the trustee, and he is responsible for dividing up the property. The debtor is allowed certain exemptions, but the BK court takes a careful look at your finances. The main thing that gets people charged with BK fraud is hiding assets...ie..turning over deed or title to a relative prior to filing. We do not have to be lawyers to know the law. Many on these boards have had to declare BK in the past, including me. I am not proud of my past irresponsibility, but was grateful for the second chance it gave me. I did not intentionally cheat the creditors though. Believe me the scrutiny the BK trustee puts you under is not something you would want.

TU fico08=812 07/16/23
EX fico08=809 07/16/23
EQ fico09=812 07/16/23
EX fico09=821 07/16/23
EQ fico bankcard08=832 07/16/23
TU Fico Bankcard 08=840 07/16/23
EQ NG1 fico=802 04/17/21
EQ Resilience index score=58 03/09/21
Unknown score from EX=784 used by Cap1 07/10/20
Message 36 of 38
sarge12
Senior Contributor

Re: Cash out?

Are there bankruptcy crimes?

 

Yes. Criminal statutes related to bankruptcy can be found at 18 U.S.C. sections 151 to 157. Examples of bankruptcy crimes are knowingly and fraudulently concealing assets, lying under oath or on bankruptcy schedules, and knowingly and fraudulently filing a false proof of claim. Bankruptcy fraud can also be used to support a RICO claim. Bankruptcy crimes are often the result of claiming you don’t own property that you do own or that has been transferred to conceal it from the Court.

 

Do I have to disclose all of my assets?

 

Yes. If you knowingly and fraudulently conceal an asset from the Court, you have committed a felony and you can be fined up to $5000, imprisoned for up to five years, or both. However, this is rare and normally comes up in only the worst cases. In addition, the Court can deny discharge, or dismiss or convert your bankruptcy proceeding.

 

Can I run up charges on my credit cards just before filing?

 

The official answer is “No”. Many people do make some minor charges on their charge cards just before filing. Charges of over $1000 on any one card within 90 days before filing are presumed to be fraudulent and non-dischargeable. Luxury items of 500 within 90 and Cash advances of 750 within 70 days are non dischargeable. Charges to an account more than 90 days before filing are presumed proper regardless of the amount. But the rule that you can’t charge within 90 days of filing isn’t written in stone there are 12 factors that the judge will use to determine if it is fraudulent.

THIS WAS COPY AND PASTE FROM MYFICO BANKRUPTCY FAQ

TU fico08=812 07/16/23
EX fico08=809 07/16/23
EQ fico09=812 07/16/23
EX fico09=821 07/16/23
EQ fico bankcard08=832 07/16/23
TU Fico Bankcard 08=840 07/16/23
EQ NG1 fico=802 04/17/21
EQ Resilience index score=58 03/09/21
Unknown score from EX=784 used by Cap1 07/10/20
Message 37 of 38
SunriseEarth
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Cash out?

While discussion of managing credit card debt and the role of making ethical decisions regarding debt are important topics, continued discussion may stray too far from our forum purposes.   Discussion will be closed, but the thread will remain available for reading in the Credit Card Forum.  --SE



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Message 38 of 38
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