Chase Closing my Accounts

[keithB]

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@kroberts67 wrote:

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@keithB wrote:

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@signaturecardmember wrote:

This MS thing worries me if 1 was to send regular payments to family or friends etc helping them out with bills and all, Id hate to see someone wrongly accused.

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I'm sure they let one or two slide but if you are doing it all the time, they'll call your number.  Their computer might flag you but if everything is legit, there should be nothing to worry about.  Maybe using reward cards to help out family on a regular basis might not be the best way to go.

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Why would sending checks to fam, etc flag anything?  Am I missing sometihng or did I confuse that comment?

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A continual patern of sending checks to family/friends, buying gift cards, and other such uses of credit cards can be construde by the creditor as "manufactured spending".  I don't care if people do their MSing... Just saying that don't complain when you get busted. To me it's like speeding - you're only guilty when you get caught.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with it, that's cool.  The card issuer might think differently if they see a continual pattern of it.  And they can revoke your card whenever they feel like it =P

[ezdoesit]

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@keithB wrote:

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@kroberts67 wrote:

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@keithB wrote:

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@signaturecardmember wrote:

This MS thing worries me if 1 was to send regular payments to family or friends etc helping them out with bills and all, Id hate to see someone wrongly accused.

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I'm sure they let one or two slide but if you are doing it all the time, they'll call your number.  Their computer might flag you but if everything is legit, there should be nothing to worry about.  Maybe using reward cards to help out family on a regular basis might not be the best way to go.

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Why would sending checks to fam, etc flag anything?  Am I missing sometihng or did I confuse that comment?

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A continual patern of sending checks to family/friends, buying gift cards, and other such uses of credit cards can be construde by the creditor as "manufactured spending".  I don't care if people do their MSing... Just saying that don't complain when you get busted. To me it's like speeding - you're only guilty when you get caught.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with it, that's cool.  The card issuer might think differently if they see a continual pattern of it.  And they can revoke your card whenever they feel like it =P

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I don't understand why sending a check to a family/friends would be construed as MS?  That is the reason they give you a BT check and usually they make 3% right off the top and I don't think most CCC gives rewards for BT anyway.  Or why would they care or how would they know if you were paying someone else's bill? 

The only way to really get in trouble in that regard and would send up red flags is if you spent 10k a month on your card but only say you make 25k a year but even then they would probably just ask for income verification.

[keithB]

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@ezdoesit wrote:

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@keithB wrote:

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@kroberts67 wrote:

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@keithB wrote:

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@signaturecardmember wrote:

This MS thing worries me if 1 was to send regular payments to family or friends etc helping them out with bills and all, Id hate to see someone wrongly accused.

---

I'm sure they let one or two slide but if you are doing it all the time, they'll call your number.  Their computer might flag you but if everything is legit, there should be nothing to worry about.  Maybe using reward cards to help out family on a regular basis might not be the best way to go.

---

Why would sending checks to fam, etc flag anything?  Am I missing sometihng or did I confuse that comment?

---

A continual patern of sending checks to family/friends, buying gift cards, and other such uses of credit cards can be construde by the creditor as "manufactured spending".  I don't care if people do their MSing... Just saying that don't complain when you get busted. To me it's like speeding - you're only guilty when you get caught.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with it, that's cool.  The card issuer might think differently if they see a continual pattern of it.  And they can revoke your card whenever they feel like it =P

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I don't understand why sending a check to a family/friends would be construed as MS?  That is the reason they give you a BT check and usually they make 3% right off the top and I don't think most CCC gives rewards for BT anyway.  Or why would they care or how would they know if you were paying someone else's bill? 

The only way to really get in trouble in that regard and would send up red flags is if you spent 10k a month on your card but only say you make 25k a year but even then they would probably just ask for income verification.

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See red above 

I don't make the calls because I don't work for Chase.  I suggest calling them if you are suddenly worried about your spending habits.

BTW, they don't have to prove anything to you - they can close you down without any real explanation. You agreed to it when you took their card. So do with the info what you will.

[longtimelurker]

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@keithB wrote:

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@kroberts67 wrote:

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@keithB wrote:

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@signaturecardmember wrote:

This MS thing worries me if 1 was to send regular payments to family or friends etc helping them out with bills and all, Id hate to see someone wrongly accused.

---

I'm sure they let one or two slide but if you are doing it all the time, they'll call your number.  Their computer might flag you but if everything is legit, there should be nothing to worry about.  Maybe using reward cards to help out family on a regular basis might not be the best way to go.

---

Why would sending checks to fam, etc flag anything?  Am I missing sometihng or did I confuse that comment?

---

A continual patern of sending checks to family/friends, buying gift cards, and other such uses of credit cards can be construde by the creditor as "manufactured spending".  I don't care if people do their MSing... Just saying that don't complain when you get busted. To me it's like speeding - you're only guilty when you get caught.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with it, that's cool.  The card issuer might think differently if they see a continual pattern of it.  And they can revoke your card whenever they feel like it =P

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Well, I don't think sending checks to family/friends would be much of issue, unless there was a question as to where the funds were coming from.    

Another common reason for Chase closure, although it doesn't seem to apply in this case, is transfer of UR points to a non-spouse (perhaps you are selling them, which is against the rules).  Now OP hasn't responded, so we don't really know exactly what happened, but two good rules of MS are:

1) Don't do it with issuers you really care about, as you might lose all your cards

2) Don't also have a bank account with the issuers you do MS with (and certainly don't deposit proceeds from MS on a card from issuer X into a bank account with X.  (Among other things, you have no good explanation: "Oh no, bank manager, those are not the proceeds of money laundering, I got them by abusing a card issued by your credit card division")

[destine2grow]

Off to google MS. You guys teach me something new everyday!

[Open123]

No one dislikes MS more than Amex, but Chase is close.

From an issuer's perspective, the "cashlike" transactions deprive the issuer of cash advance fees, but the main issue is potential fraud & money laundering.  There's very little benefit for the issuer to allow come profiles to continue unabated, hence the frequent Amex FRs associated with MS spending.

[longtimelurker]

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@Open123 wrote:

No one dislikes MS more than Amex, but Chase is close.

From an issuer's perspective, the "cashlike" transactions deprive the issuer of cash advance fees, but the main issue is potential fraud & money laundering.  There's very little benefit for the issuer to allow come profiles to continue unabated, hence the frequent Amex FRs associated with MS spending.

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For whatever it's worth, for now it seems to tolerated on the Blue Cash, just like on Citi 5x TYP later on.  Amex clearly know what is going on, and a few people have been FRd with no change.

[bdhu2001]

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@destine2grow wrote:
Off togoogle MS. You guys teach me something new everyday!

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I looked it up in this forum.  You don't always find the use of these abbreviations in Google.  MS is Manufactured Spending or Churning.

[Open123]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@Open123 wrote:

No one dislikes MS more than Amex, but Chase is close.

From an issuer's perspective, the "cashlike" transactions deprive the issuer of cash advance fees, but the main issue is potential fraud & money laundering.  There's very little benefit for the issuer to allow come profiles to continue unabated, hence the frequent Amex FRs associated with MS spending.

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For whatever it's worth, for now it seems to tolerated on the Blue Cash, just like on Citi 5x TYP later on.  Amex clearly know what is going on, and a few people have been FRd with no change.

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I think Amex tolerates it more on their cash cards, but not as much on MR or SPG cards.  

[longtimelurker]

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@bdhu2001 wrote:

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@destine2grow wrote:
Off togoogle MS. You guys teach me something new everyday!

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I looked it up in this forum.  You don't always find the use of these abbreviations in Google.  MS is Manufactured Spending or Churning.

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Some people do you those terms interchangeably, but they are really different things.  Churning is simply opening cards for sign-up bonuses (sometimes exactly the same card as one you have recently closed, or, in some cases, without closing it all).  Getting somewhat harder to do with new bonus rules from some major issuers.