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Senior Contributor
creditwherecreditisdue
Posts: 4,923
Registered: ‎04-19-2009
0

Re: Chase Minimum payment

[ Edited ]

Watchmann wrote:

bredan wrote:
I read it completely,and noboby is asking for a bailout! We are asking for honesty! I hope you never have hard times,or if you have in the past,have them again, and are told to move on! We were told this was an AGREEMENT for the life of the debt,  maybe you did not read my first post correctly.People are hurting,and all of these people were paying their bills,and trying as hard as they could. I guess all of us are not perfect!, but we do expect ,or normal enough to think people will keep their word. Why has it come to the point wher you think if you are lied to ,then you are wrong for believing it.I spoke to the FTC,and their may be some predatory lending laws  involved

 

Sorry you feel you have been lied to and deceived, but if you had read your original agreement that came with your BT checks you would have seen the clause that they could increase the terms without notice.  The truth of the matter is people did not read the terms of these loans from the CCC's any more than they read the terms of their Option Arm or Interest Only Mortgages.  It's human nature, when things are good there is no need to understand the terms as rates will stay low and you can always roll the loan over to some other lender at equal, and often better, terms.

 

For those that believe that all Banks and CCC's are evil and crooks, you do not realize the huge amounts of liquidity and reasonable credit they injected into the market over the years.  Anybody here over about 45 years old remembers how it was in the early 80's to get credit to buy a car, get a mortgage, or a credit card.  It was tight.  Sure, it got way too easy to get credit in the last ten years or so, but the door swings both ways.  Banks had the money to lend and people readily took the offers.  Both are at fault.  Americans in general are financial dunderheads.  We are very, very ignorant of how credit works or functions.  It is short sighted to conclude it's all the banks fault.  We all play a part.


Unfortunately what Chase has done here is deceitful. But it isn't dishonest. And that, unfortunately, is a difference with a distinction. Chase has shown an utter disdain for their cardholders over the last six to twelve months. Is that a good business practice, NO! Is it legal, SURE! Will Chase survive - probably!

 

Yes I do remember the early 80's. I bought my first (and only) new car in 1982, I had top drawer credit at the time and got the best rate possible through my then CU: 16%!! I paid off every nickel of that loan and one day proudly took title to that car. I also heavily invested my now deceased ex-wife's savings in bonds and made a fortune for her as those rates came down.

Message Edited by creditwherecreditisdue on 07-08-2009 07:59 PM
Member
bredan
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎02-08-2008
0

Re: Chase Minimum payment

I too have paid my accounts, and as I have said previously Chase did not change the rates,they changed the 2% payment to 5% payment. I ,as most have NEVER heard of this.Chase should hire you as their advocate,or do you already work for them,or another bank. I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt for humanity,but I am done. Thanks to those that do understand the horrible way Chase has repaid their loyal customers. This was not a ballon account. This was a tranfer check from a bank with supposedly agreed terms for the life of account,and EVERYONE wanted to pay their bills,and wanted nothing for free,so calling everyone who has transferred a balace dumb is absurd! Good Luck and God Bless! I pray you get a heart
New Member
boyydz
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎08-08-2007
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Re: Chase Minimum payment

Who do you think you are? Chase comes in and reams thousands of people with their unethical action and you blame the victims?

 

Furthermore, it takes 14 years, 8 months to pay off, not 16 years, 8 months. Minimum payments bottom at $15 when 2% is less. The total finance charge is $1,175.68, which is not unreasonable given the period of time in question. If the borrower could have reinvested that money as a business for an ongoing 7% over that time, how DUMB would it be then? That savings would accrue $2,151.64 over the same time for a cool pre-tax gain of $975.96! I have made thousands of dollars in the past three years using exactly this technique.

 

I do agree that overspending is a problem, and those persons who engage in it need to learn not to do it, but you have painted everyone with a broad brush. The facts are:

 

1. Chase made a business agreement with people.

2. Since the APR was guaranteed for the life of the balance, it was expected that

3. The payment terms would remain unchanged since

4. Raising the minimum payment would reduce the value of the transaction which

5. People paid a transaction fee to execute.

6. Also, people had an expectation that their cash flow would become more manageable, not suddenly have the rug pulled out.

 

People who have overspent - for whatever reason - and have taken smart action to service their debt responsibly deserve your admiration, not your scorn. When they are mistreated, they deserve your sympathy, not "I told you so." Stop the preaching.

Valued Contributor
usmc58555
Posts: 1,668
Registered: ‎02-18-2009
0

Re: Chase Minimum payment


boyydz wrote:

Who do you think you are? Chase comes in and reams thousands of people with their unethical action and you blame the victims? (they did initiate the transaction themselves, a transaction with fluid terms)

 

Furthermore, it takes 14 years, 8 months to pay off, not 16 years, 8 months. Minimum payments bottom at $15 when 2% is less. The total finance charge is $1,175.68, which is not unreasonable given the period of time in question. If the borrower could have reinvested that money as a business for an ongoing 7% over that time, how DUMB would it be then? That savings would accrue $2,151.64 over the same time for a cool pre-tax gain of $975.96! I have made thousands of dollars in the past three years using exactly this technique. (Ok, so you are debating math. And-People in hopes of making money gambled and did this much like those in the housing crisis and everything else. Speculation has landed them in hot water. It sounds to me that people greedy to make more money entered into these arrangements- and I am sorry butthat does not get my sympathy.)

 

I do agree that overspending is a problem, and those persons who engage in it need to learn not to do it, but you have painted everyone with a broad brush. The facts are:

 

1. Chase made a business agreement with people. (An agreement that had mutable terms.)

2. Since the APR was guaranteed for the life of the balance, it was expected that (expected or contracted, two completely different things)

3. The payment terms would remain unchanged since (the interest and fee rate of the BT offer was set, that was it. Payment terms are set in installment loans)

4. Raising the minimum payment would reduce the value of the transaction which (that point is correct, but again everyone agreed to the issuers terms, nothing to complain about)

5. People paid a transaction fee to execute. (yep as spelled out in the agreement)

6. Also, people had an expectation that their cash flow would become more manageable, not suddenly have the rug pulled out.(Well that particular expectation has caused more grief in regards to credit cards, deebt and house payments then anything else)

 

People who have overspent - for whatever reason - and have taken smart action to service their debt responsibly deserve your admiration, not your scorn. When they are mistreated, they deserve your sympathy, not "I told you so." Stop the preaching. (No scorn just reality. Two years ago I was having a conversation with a morbidly obese co-worker-we had a casual conversation relationship, after watching him huff and puff and sweat while walking in hot and humid outside, and asked them if diabetes ran in their family [yes] and asked them if he was diabetic [No]. I said well I hate to tell you this but you need to lose weight and get on a excercise program cause you will be diabetic-you have too many trends to not be- and you do not want to end up like me and all the changes you have to make. He went to management and complained I was harassing him and making fun of his weight, and that was a poor work place environment for him etc. I apologised and explained that the Drs. Appointment and a change in meds I had that day had caused me to be concerned about someone else heading in those same shoes as me. I was still written up. I found out this summer he was recently diagnosed with diabetes.)


 

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Regular Contributor
Cyrion
Posts: 192
Registered: ‎12-06-2008
0

Re: Chase Minimum payment

Boyydz is right and you know he is right, enough said.
Senior Contributor
txjohn
Posts: 4,214
Registered: ‎09-12-2008
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Re: Chase Minimum payment

Without wishing to join the "argument" ensuing here:

 

I would only like to comment on one thing:  That if the APR and fee schedule remained unchanged, then Chase "technically" has honored the offer.  The increase in principle portion to the payments would not constitute violation to the offer.

 

I very much feel for those who now find themselves under water, cash flow speaking.  But at the same time there is a valuable lesson to be learned, that everyone needs to take heed of.  And that is the fact that Revolving LOC and CC's are not stable installment loans and there is always, always, always a risk of changes in the payment schedule, whether that be a change in the interest rate (not including "life of transfer"), % of balance minimums or both.

 

Revolving debt is a bit like playing commodities, when the values are up you are good.  If they go down, you may have a margin call (have to come up with cash to cover the short position, or short in value).

 

It is far to common that we as consumers do not read and fully understand the contracts and terms we sign or agree to.  We need to become more informed consumers.  Because borrowing money is actually a very big deal and significant obligation.

 

I hope that many of the people now in hot water are able to find a way to manage.  But obviously there will be many who don't.

 

In some ways this makes little sense of Chase, because if a high number of accounts default, then this jeopardizes the capital and income value of those accounts (that are being paid down under previous terms).

 

Personally I think that Chase would have been better to offer an APR REDUCTION (say 1 percent) for anyone who will opt in to a 5% minimum payment agreement.

 

You always get a better consumer response by giving them a choice and an option to their own interests.

 

Possibly they could have also have offered incentives to pay down the principle balance, sort of the way AMEX offered a cash bonus (gift card) for those willing to pay off their existing balances.

 

While many would not be in a position to accept either, some would and those would remain happy Chase customers.  Those who cannot, Chase would seem to have been in a better position to make a mutual offer and agreement rather than chance having a certain percentage go into default.  But then again, I don't know all the factors that Chase does.

 

I wish well to all those in this mess.  Please be sure not to ever allow such a predicament to ensnare you again.  As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

 

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Frequent Contributor
wndrwmn78
Posts: 256
Registered: ‎04-16-2009
0

Re: Chase Minimum payment


txjohn wrote:

Without wishing to join the "argument" ensuing here:

 

I would only like to comment on one thing:  That if the APR and fee schedule remained unchanged, then Chase "technically" has honored the offer.  The increase in principle portion to the payments would not constitute violation to the offer.

 

I very much feel for those who now find themselves under water, cash flow speaking.  But at the same time there is a valuable lesson to be learned, that everyone needs to take heed of.  And that is the fact that Revolving LOC and CC's are not stable installment loans and there is always, always, always a risk of changes in the payment schedule, whether that be a change in the interest rate (not including "life of transfer"), % of balance minimums or both.

 

Revolving debt is a bit like playing commodities, when the values are up you are good.  If they go down, you may have a margin call (have to come up with cash to cover the short position, or short in value).

 

It is far to common that we as consumers do not read and fully understand the contracts and terms we sign or agree to.  We need to become more informed consumers.  Because borrowing money is actually a very big deal and significant obligation.

 

I hope that many of the people now in hot water are able to find a way to manage.  But obviously there will be many who don't.

 

In some ways this makes little sense of Chase, because if a high number of accounts default, then this jeopardizes the capital and income value of those accounts (that are being paid down under previous terms).

 

Personally I think that Chase would have been better to offer an APR REDUCTION (say 1 percent) for anyone who will opt in to a 5% minimum payment agreement.

 

You always get a better consumer response by giving them a choice and an option to their own interests.

 

Possibly they could have also have offered incentives to pay down the principle balance, sort of the way AMEX offered a cash bonus (gift card) for those willing to pay off their existing balances.

 

While many would not be in a position to accept either, some would and those would remain happy Chase customers.  Those who cannot, Chase would seem to have been in a better position to make a mutual offer and agreement rather than chance having a certain percentage go into default.  But then again, I don't know all the factors that Chase does.

 

I wish well to all those in this mess.  Please be sure not to ever allow such a predicament to ensnare you again.  As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

 


 

+1

 

Emphathetic, informative, and hopefully a good moderation between the two opinions. Nice post, txjohn!


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haulingthescoreup
Posts: 28,098
Registered: ‎04-01-2007
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Re: Chase Minimum payment

I would like to point out that our visitor replied to a 6-week-old thread.

It's always a good idea to check the date of the most recent post before replying. Quite often, attitudes change over time, new information appears, and so forth.

I am certainly no apologist for Chase or any of the other banks. However, what they are doing is legal, however sleazy.

But I think it's pretty stupid of them. There's a very good reason that credit unions have soared in popularity, both here on the forums and in general. A growing number of people have resolved to do the majority of their financial business with CU's, keeping their relationships with the big boy banks to a minimum.
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FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Senior Contributor
txjohn
Posts: 4,214
Registered: ‎09-12-2008
0

Re: Chase Minimum payment


haulingthescoreup wrote:

But I think it's pretty stupid of them. There's a very good reason that credit unions have soared in popularity, both here on the forums and in general. A growing number of people have resolved to do the majority of their financial business with CU's, keeping their relationships with the big boy banks to a minimum.

+100

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09/03/2009 TU: 777, EQ: 776 ($8 balance on an account dropped me out of 780's)
03/28/2009 TU: 814, EQ: 810, EX: 781 (02/12/2009)
05/18/2005 TU: 563, EQ: 580, EX: 549
Established Contributor
Revike
Posts: 720
Registered: ‎05-04-2007
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Re: Chase Minimum payment

Unfortunately, consumers in general need to develop a more cynical, questioning attitude toward finance-related contracts in general. Two or three years ago, when installment loans were offered at APRs ranging between 7% and 10% (or higher), and then a few CCCs come along and offer a 2.99% or 3.99% BT with the sales pitch "just like a HELOC" or similar, customers needed to stop and say "wait, what am I missing, what's the catch?". How can an "equivalent" product have an APR that's one-third or one-half of the product it's supposed to replace? And the answer is found in comparing the terms line-by-line. The installment products had a guaranteed fixed payment amount, the BTs did not.

 

It is no secret that banks are far more concerned with their welfare than the customers, to the point that they are often characterized as evil. When offered a product that looks especially generous, consumers should assume that the bank has devised a loophole or included a clause that could ambush the customer, and make it their business to find the "catch". When someone offers a steak for the price of a hamburger, or a $200 watch for $30, you wouldn't blindly pay up and say "oh, it must be my lucky day", you'd say "what's wrong with it?". The same scrutiny should have been applied to these BT offers, and should be applied to whatever future shiny products are offered up by our friendly banks ...


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