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kekrre
Posts: 91
Registered: ‎10-31-2012
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Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


ryanbush wrote:

kekrre wrote:

ryanbush wrote:

FutureBillionaire wrote:

It seems to me that you are paying for the credits or perks up front with the annual fee.  I'm not sure that the Platinum gives 450 bucks worth of extra benefits.  The 200 dollar credit that you get for incidental fees is included in the annual fee.  That leaves $250 bucks that I have paid.  How do you itemize the other $250?

 

I have an Amex PRG that is probably going to get closed.  I have used amex points towards ticket purchases for events.  But, I don't really use that card to book travel.  Maybe that's where I am missing the boat. 

 

I need someone to explain to me in dollars how these annual fees allow you to come out on top.  I see that $250 is unaccounted for.


Just a Delta skyclub membership (which i use) is 450/year... so I'm already 200 ahead if I use that feature


This was going to be a simple reply, but it turned into a really lengthy discussion of how I would assign value to a club membership (and why I decided it wasn't worth bothering with).

 

 

 

Well that really depends on how much you value lounge access. It's $50/person walk-in, so you really need to make at least 5 visits with a Platinum card, or 9 visits with a club membership, just to reach "cash equivalency". If you think lounge access is worth more like $25, then you need to make 10 visits with the Platinum card, 18 visits with the club membership, or just get a Delta Gold card and make 4 visits. Also, if you're not picky about what club you have to stay at (and are willing in many cases to forgo additional service such as IRROP rebooking), the Priority Pass Standard Plus membership runs $249 and gets you 10 "free" club passes, with many United and US Airways clubs available, plus quite a bit of stuff overseas, such as the Banjul First Class lounge in Gambia. If you value clubs at $25 a pop and plan to make less than 10 visits (and don't care that DL and AA don't participate/fly US or UA), you can get good value out of a CSP + PP Standard Plus membership.

 

However, a more reasonable "value" I've seen tossed around is $10/visit (which happens to be, more or less, what you can get United Club passes off ebay for). At that rate, you need to make 45 visits with Skyclub membership or 25 visits with a Platinum. If you fly often (I'm not saying you don't - I'm just breaking down costs for interested readers), it's probably definitely worth it to have the Platinum. As I understand it, the clubs can be a welcome place to wait if your flight is delayed and many (most? all?) airlines provide a slightly higher level of service for rebooking IRROPs and such through their club CSRs.

 

But for an average person, you have to decide whether or not it's worth $10 to $25 per trip (maybe $20 to $50 for round-trip non-hub flyers) for slightly higher convenience. If you connection is less than 45 minutes, especially in a big hub like ATL or ORD, you probably won't have any time to go to the hub anyway. So now you may be deliberately scheduling extra travel time into your schedule so you can take advantage of a perk that you wouldn't normally have had time to use.

 

Finally, if you're getting club access for food/drink, you could just find a decent restaurant/bar in the airport and go there. $25 to $50 would take you very far (and probably be a much more memorable experience at a place like One Flew South, rather than Delta Skyclub #8, for example).


What about when I travel with my Fiance and brother, that's 150 right there...  traveled with my fiance and companion twice last year, that would have been 150 at each lay over....  so 2 layovers per trip = 6 visits per trip and I had two trips last year they came on....  so that was 12 visits right there or 600$... platinum came out ahead on those calculations.

 

BTW one flew south in atlanta is pretty awesome and that is my normal connecting hub, The club access is just a nice luxury even if just stopping by for 30 mins to get a nice drink and surf on the laptop instead of standing at a gate waiting 


Well, the point of my post was simply that taking the "purchase price" of club access as a substitute for the value received isn't exactly correct.

 

I'd also argue that swiping your brother/relatives into a Skyclub isn't really really a benefit/savings for you.

 

And I'm not saying you're not justified in paying for the Platinum card simply for the club access. I just tried to outline all of the points that I think one should consider when signing up for a $450/yr card. If you feel like going to the Skyclub is worth it, then of course it is.

 

I still wouldn't recommend anyone value Skyclub access at over $25, since that's what you can get with a Delta card, which will also allow you to completely erase the AF in baggage fees, while allowing you and your travel companions to carry a smaller version of your stuff around the world (although that's another point of contention - do you really always check a bag, especially if you're a business traveler? Priority boarding (better overhead bin access) and free checked bag are really competing benefits). The Reserve can even bump up your upgrade spot if you're an elite.

Contributor
kekrre
Posts: 91
Registered: ‎10-31-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


jsucool76 wrote:
Also, dont know if anyone mentioned it, there is also small business Saturday on the amex, which is a 25$ credit. (available on all of their cards, not just the plat) but if you have a plat, it is another way to get some of the AF back.

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.

 

This SBS, I bought a Chinese food feast for myself and a friend for just over $25. However, the value received wasn't really $25 (especially since I am not two people, thus how can I derive value from feeding someone else, unless I'm a true a* and make them pay me for food I got for free?). The value was equal to the alternative, which would have been me eating food I already had and paid maybe $5-$10 for.

 

Of course, we can get into other stuff like value of time with friend, value of food prep time, value of travel to restaurant, value value value. But since we're talking about AFs, I think it's appropriate to just calculate the true cash value equivalent and go with that.

Senior Contributor
Open123
Posts: 4,194
Registered: ‎02-23-2011
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Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 

Valued Contributor
ryanbush
Posts: 1,292
Registered: ‎08-19-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back

Chase Sapphire Perferred | Chase Freedom | AMEX Platinum | AMEX Delta Platinum | AMEX SPG | Capital One Venture | Capital One Quicksliver | Discover IT | ABFCU Visa | Citi AA WEMC
Valued Contributor
bs6054
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎11-11-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


ryanbush wrote:

Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back


Yes.  One time things get a little murky (at least for me!) is the arguments about international biz class/first class travel.  You see posts here and on other forums

"I got enough points on my [bestest card ever] to take a first class flight to [dream destination].    The ticket normally cost $10K, and I only use 30,000 points, so that's an

AWESOME redemption rate of 33c per point!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Now, we know that the poster would never have actually spent $10K on the ticket, and a usual response is to ask "What would you have paid", and if it is say $1K, then the "real" redeption rate is a still good but  more normal 3c per point.    

 

But..... he/she WAS able to go to dream destination which they couldn't have done before (since the mean old airline wouldn't accept the $1K offer!) so I feel there is some justification for the inflated valuation.

Valued Contributor
ryanbush
Posts: 1,292
Registered: ‎08-19-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum

[ Edited ]

bs6054 wrote:

ryanbush wrote:

Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back


Yes.  One time things get a little murky (at least for me!) is the arguments about international biz class/first class travel.  You see posts here and on other forums

"I got enough points on my [bestest card ever] to take a first class flight to [dream destination].    The ticket normally cost $10K, and I only use 30,000 points, so that's an

AWESOME redemption rate of 33c per point!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Now, we know that the poster would never have actually spent $10K on the ticket, and a usual response is to ask "What would you have paid", and if it is say $1K, then the "real" redeption rate is a still good but  more normal 3c per point.    

 

But..... he/she WAS able to go to dream destination which they couldn't have done before (since the mean old airline wouldn't accept the $1K offer!) so I feel there is some justification for the inflated valuation.


I agree with you on that, I would never spend 10k on a flight... not with my current financial situation anyway lol.  I just booked two award tickets for my honeymoon using MR points and Delta skymiles, the tickets were almost 1k each and I spend 110k miles, basically 1.75-2% CB if you figure it as straight cashback.

 

I also booked a ticket for my mom (economy) which was a 900$ ticket last week and used 25k miles.  that's over 3% if you just figured straigth cash back

 

so every flight situation is different but if you do redeem them correct you can do really good at times and average at other times.

 

The way I figure things is if i can get 2c/point or better, I am doing better than I could using a straight 2% CB card (which are rare) and I am doing way better than a straight 1% CB card.  

Chase Sapphire Perferred | Chase Freedom | AMEX Platinum | AMEX Delta Platinum | AMEX SPG | Capital One Venture | Capital One Quicksliver | Discover IT | ABFCU Visa | Citi AA WEMC
Valued Contributor
CreditScholar
Posts: 2,300
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


bs6054 wrote:

ryanbush wrote:

Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back


Yes.  One time things get a little murky (at least for me!) is the arguments about international biz class/first class travel.  You see posts here and on other forums

"I got enough points on my [bestest card ever] to take a first class flight to [dream destination].    The ticket normally cost $10K, and I only use 30,000 points, so that's an

AWESOME redemption rate of 33c per point!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Now, we know that the poster would never have actually spent $10K on the ticket, and a usual response is to ask "What would you have paid", and if it is say $1K, then the "real" redeption rate is a still good but  more normal 3c per point.    

 

But..... he/she WAS able to go to dream destination which they couldn't have done before (since the mean old airline wouldn't accept the $1K offer!) so I feel there is some justification for the inflated valuation.


There are are some of us who would actually pay 10k for that trip. If I didn't have the miles and needed to fly internationally, I would have no issues paying cash. Why? Because I can, and I refuse to fly anything less than business on international flights. However with a little bit of planning miles is typically the lower cost option for the same product. That extra cash could then be used elsewhere. There are some people who would derive huge values in cpp for those redemptions.

FICOs: EX: 826, EQ: 817, TU: 810
Bank of America Privileges with Travel Rewards Visa Signature - $23,200 CL
Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature - $12,700 CL
Chase United MileagePlus Club World Elite MasterCard - $26,500 CL
Citibank American Airlines Executive World Elite MasterCard - $22,500 CL
J.P. Morgan Ritz Carlton Visa Signature - $23,500 CL
Contributor
kekrre
Posts: 91
Registered: ‎10-31-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


CreditScholar wrote:

bs6054 wrote:

ryanbush wrote:

Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back


Yes.  One time things get a little murky (at least for me!) is the arguments about international biz class/first class travel.  You see posts here and on other forums

"I got enough points on my [bestest card ever] to take a first class flight to [dream destination].    The ticket normally cost $10K, and I only use 30,000 points, so that's an

AWESOME redemption rate of 33c per point!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Now, we know that the poster would never have actually spent $10K on the ticket, and a usual response is to ask "What would you have paid", and if it is say $1K, then the "real" redeption rate is a still good but  more normal 3c per point.    

 

But..... he/she WAS able to go to dream destination which they couldn't have done before (since the mean old airline wouldn't accept the $1K offer!) so I feel there is some justification for the inflated valuation.


There are are some of us who would actually pay 10k for that trip. If I didn't have the miles and needed to fly internationally, I would have no issues paying cash. Why? Because I can, and I refuse to fly anything less than business on international flights. However with a little bit of planning miles is typically the lower cost option for the same product. That extra cash could then be used elsewhere. There are some people who would derive huge values in cpp for those redemptions.


This is slightly off topic, but what I think is interesting is that, assuming "saver" or "low" rewards are available, you could buy enough miles flat-out for a first/business class flight cheaper than the flight itself.

 

Example: JFK to Catania on UA in Business (July, 7 days): You could buy 100k miles for $3762.50 which, if a saver award is available, can bump you from a Wednesday-Wednesday flight (~$2700) to a Saturday-Saturday flight (~$5000).

 

Same flights in First are ~$10k for the same Sat-Sat itinerary (I'm not looking at actual flight numbers, so I don't know if it's exactly the same). But 135k miles (purchase value would be $5079.38) would get you a saver award for the same price.

 

So I guess if you regularly fly First/Business, you should be maxing out the purchase allowance for miles every year (100k at 3.7625 cpm on UA, 60k (not including 30k bonus right now) at 2.75 cpm on AA (you might actually be able to beat that on domestic economy), 60k at 3.5 cpm on DL (although I hear that international first is very hard to get a low award on), 24k at 2.8542 cpm on BA, etc. etc. etc.).

Valued Contributor
bs6054
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎11-11-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


CreditScholar wrote:

bs6054 wrote:

ryanbush wrote:

Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back


Yes.  One time things get a little murky (at least for me!) is the arguments about international biz class/first class travel.  You see posts here and on other forums

"I got enough points on my [bestest card ever] to take a first class flight to [dream destination].    The ticket normally cost $10K, and I only use 30,000 points, so that's an

AWESOME redemption rate of 33c per point!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Now, we know that the poster would never have actually spent $10K on the ticket, and a usual response is to ask "What would you have paid", and if it is say $1K, then the "real" redeption rate is a still good but  more normal 3c per point.    

 

But..... he/she WAS able to go to dream destination which they couldn't have done before (since the mean old airline wouldn't accept the $1K offer!) so I feel there is some justification for the inflated valuation.


There are are some of us who would actually pay 10k for that trip. If I didn't have the miles and needed to fly internationally, I would have no issues paying cash. Why? Because I can, and I refuse to fly anything less than business on international flights. However with a little bit of planning miles is typically the lower cost option for the same product. That extra cash could then be used elsewhere. There are some people who would derive huge values in cpp for those redemptions.


Yes, but then that is not the case I am discussing

Valued Contributor
CreditScholar
Posts: 2,300
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


kekrre wrote:

CreditScholar wrote:

bs6054 wrote:

ryanbush wrote:

Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back


Yes.  One time things get a little murky (at least for me!) is the arguments about international biz class/first class travel.  You see posts here and on other forums

"I got enough points on my [bestest card ever] to take a first class flight to [dream destination].    The ticket normally cost $10K, and I only use 30,000 points, so that's an

AWESOME redemption rate of 33c per point!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Now, we know that the poster would never have actually spent $10K on the ticket, and a usual response is to ask "What would you have paid", and if it is say $1K, then the "real" redeption rate is a still good but  more normal 3c per point.    

 

But..... he/she WAS able to go to dream destination which they couldn't have done before (since the mean old airline wouldn't accept the $1K offer!) so I feel there is some justification for the inflated valuation.


There are are some of us who would actually pay 10k for that trip. If I didn't have the miles and needed to fly internationally, I would have no issues paying cash. Why? Because I can, and I refuse to fly anything less than business on international flights. However with a little bit of planning miles is typically the lower cost option for the same product. That extra cash could then be used elsewhere. There are some people who would derive huge values in cpp for those redemptions.


This is slightly off topic, but what I think is interesting is that, assuming "saver" or "low" rewards are available, you could buy enough miles flat-out for a first/business class flight cheaper than the flight itself.

 

Example: JFK to Catania on UA in Business (July, 7 days): You could buy 100k miles for $3762.50 which, if a saver award is available, can bump you from a Wednesday-Wednesday flight (~$2700) to a Saturday-Saturday flight (~$5000).

 

Same flights in First are ~$10k for the same Sat-Sat itinerary (I'm not looking at actual flight numbers, so I don't know if it's exactly the same). But 135k miles (purchase value would be $5079.38) would get you a saver award for the same price.

 

So I guess if you regularly fly First/Business, you should be maxing out the purchase allowance for miles every year (100k at 3.7625 cpm on UA, 60k (not including 30k bonus right now) at 2.75 cpm on AA (you might actually be able to beat that on domestic economy), 60k at 3.5 cpm on DL (although I hear that international first is very hard to get a low award on), 24k at 2.8542 cpm on BA, etc. etc. etc.).


This is exactly what I do, given my travel patterns are regular and predictable. Australia to North America is 110k US miles per person for business, with a stopover allowed in Asia. Given the frequency of sales lately at 1.88 cpm, it equates to $2,250 per ticket including taxes and fees. This allows us to see family regularly and visit a new destination on the way each time. 

FICOs: EX: 826, EQ: 817, TU: 810
Bank of America Privileges with Travel Rewards Visa Signature - $23,200 CL
Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature - $12,700 CL
Chase United MileagePlus Club World Elite MasterCard - $26,500 CL
Citibank American Airlines Executive World Elite MasterCard - $22,500 CL
J.P. Morgan Ritz Carlton Visa Signature - $23,500 CL

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