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Valued Contributor
ryanbush
Posts: 1,299
Registered: ‎08-19-2012
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Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


CreditScholar wrote:

kekrre wrote:

CreditScholar wrote:

bs6054 wrote:

ryanbush wrote:

Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back


Yes.  One time things get a little murky (at least for me!) is the arguments about international biz class/first class travel.  You see posts here and on other forums

"I got enough points on my [bestest card ever] to take a first class flight to [dream destination].    The ticket normally cost $10K, and I only use 30,000 points, so that's an

AWESOME redemption rate of 33c per point!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Now, we know that the poster would never have actually spent $10K on the ticket, and a usual response is to ask "What would you have paid", and if it is say $1K, then the "real" redeption rate is a still good but  more normal 3c per point.    

 

But..... he/she WAS able to go to dream destination which they couldn't have done before (since the mean old airline wouldn't accept the $1K offer!) so I feel there is some justification for the inflated valuation.


There are are some of us who would actually pay 10k for that trip. If I didn't have the miles and needed to fly internationally, I would have no issues paying cash. Why? Because I can, and I refuse to fly anything less than business on international flights. However with a little bit of planning miles is typically the lower cost option for the same product. That extra cash could then be used elsewhere. There are some people who would derive huge values in cpp for those redemptions.


This is slightly off topic, but what I think is interesting is that, assuming "saver" or "low" rewards are available, you could buy enough miles flat-out for a first/business class flight cheaper than the flight itself.

 

Example: JFK to Catania on UA in Business (July, 7 days): You could buy 100k miles for $3762.50 which, if a saver award is available, can bump you from a Wednesday-Wednesday flight (~$2700) to a Saturday-Saturday flight (~$5000).

 

Same flights in First are ~$10k for the same Sat-Sat itinerary (I'm not looking at actual flight numbers, so I don't know if it's exactly the same). But 135k miles (purchase value would be $5079.38) would get you a saver award for the same price.

 

So I guess if you regularly fly First/Business, you should be maxing out the purchase allowance for miles every year (100k at 3.7625 cpm on UA, 60k (not including 30k bonus right now) at 2.75 cpm on AA (you might actually be able to beat that on domestic economy), 60k at 3.5 cpm on DL (although I hear that international first is very hard to get a low award on), 24k at 2.8542 cpm on BA, etc. etc. etc.).


This is exactly what I do, given my travel patterns are regular and predictable. Australia to North America is 110k US miles per person for business, with a stopover allowed in Asia. Given the frequency of sales lately at 1.88 cpm, it equates to $2,250 per ticket including taxes and fees. This allows us to see family regularly and visit a new destination on the way each time. 


Do you live in Australia but use US credit cards?  I'm assuming you're a US Citizen living in Australia temp?

Chase Sapphire Perferred | Chase Freedom | AMEX Platinum | AMEX Delta Platinum | AMEX SPG | Capital One Venture | Capital One Quicksliver | Discover IT | ABFCU Visa | Citi AA WEMC
Valued Contributor
CreditScholar
Posts: 2,300
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


ryanbush wrote:

CreditScholar wrote:

kekrre wrote:

CreditScholar wrote:

bs6054 wrote:

ryanbush wrote:

Open123 wrote:

kekrre wrote:

That's true. Now, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but remember that $25 in free stuff doesn't equal $25 in value. It's only worth the full $25 if you were going to buy that stuff anyway.


Very salient point.

 

The value of the Amex Plat and cards of this sort aren't the rewards for spending, but the benefits derived from the card; and, only if one were planning to pay for the benefits regardless of having the card or not.

 

 


Exactly, the majority of my spending goes on my CSP... unless i'm trying to redeem for an delta award ticket in the near future then i will switch some of my spending over to AMEX to top off my points account.  Also discover gets a little use here and there to get the 5% back


Yes.  One time things get a little murky (at least for me!) is the arguments about international biz class/first class travel.  You see posts here and on other forums

"I got enough points on my [bestest card ever] to take a first class flight to [dream destination].    The ticket normally cost $10K, and I only use 30,000 points, so that's an

AWESOME redemption rate of 33c per point!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Now, we know that the poster would never have actually spent $10K on the ticket, and a usual response is to ask "What would you have paid", and if it is say $1K, then the "real" redeption rate is a still good but  more normal 3c per point.    

 

But..... he/she WAS able to go to dream destination which they couldn't have done before (since the mean old airline wouldn't accept the $1K offer!) so I feel there is some justification for the inflated valuation.


There are are some of us who would actually pay 10k for that trip. If I didn't have the miles and needed to fly internationally, I would have no issues paying cash. Why? Because I can, and I refuse to fly anything less than business on international flights. However with a little bit of planning miles is typically the lower cost option for the same product. That extra cash could then be used elsewhere. There are some people who would derive huge values in cpp for those redemptions.


This is slightly off topic, but what I think is interesting is that, assuming "saver" or "low" rewards are available, you could buy enough miles flat-out for a first/business class flight cheaper than the flight itself.

 

Example: JFK to Catania on UA in Business (July, 7 days): You could buy 100k miles for $3762.50 which, if a saver award is available, can bump you from a Wednesday-Wednesday flight (~$2700) to a Saturday-Saturday flight (~$5000).

 

Same flights in First are ~$10k for the same Sat-Sat itinerary (I'm not looking at actual flight numbers, so I don't know if it's exactly the same). But 135k miles (purchase value would be $5079.38) would get you a saver award for the same price.

 

So I guess if you regularly fly First/Business, you should be maxing out the purchase allowance for miles every year (100k at 3.7625 cpm on UA, 60k (not including 30k bonus right now) at 2.75 cpm on AA (you might actually be able to beat that on domestic economy), 60k at 3.5 cpm on DL (although I hear that international first is very hard to get a low award on), 24k at 2.8542 cpm on BA, etc. etc. etc.).


This is exactly what I do, given my travel patterns are regular and predictable. Australia to North America is 110k US miles per person for business, with a stopover allowed in Asia. Given the frequency of sales lately at 1.88 cpm, it equates to $2,250 per ticket including taxes and fees. This allows us to see family regularly and visit a new destination on the way each time. 


Do you live in Australia but use US credit cards?  I'm assuming you're a US Citizen living in Australia temp?


I have dual-citizenship but I use US cards because the rewards are much better. I get 8 weeks vacation per year and I spend the majority of it in the US, but I live in Australia for the rest of the year due to work.

FICOs: EX: 826, EQ: 817, TU: 810
Bank of America Privileges with Travel Rewards Visa Signature - $23,200 CL
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Regular Contributor
Sevenfeet
Posts: 166
Registered: ‎02-06-2013
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum

[ Edited ]

I've carried the Amex Platinum now for a few years.  The best benefit is easily the Delta Sky Club access (I travel on business for a living).  But there are other benefits too.  I had to remind my wife that when she travels alone to visit family or the occasional business trip that the Plat card will refund her bag fees...she'd forgotten this.  We both want to join the TSA's Global Entry program for international travel.  The Platinum card pays for the $100 entry fee.  Using the concierge for concert tickets, dinner reservations (especially in restaurants that are hard to get into) is pretty nice too.

 

The hotel room upgrade policy is pretty nice too, and it even works on my business trips.  I have a Amex green business I'm required to use, but if you show up and hand them the Plat card to begin with, you get all the benefits it provides for the stay.  Then I change the charge to my business green card at checkout.

 

Id been debating about adding the CSP to my portfolio but outside of the sweet metal and the opening benefit, I don't see much of what I already don't get.  The benefit of miles rollover used in conjunction with the Freedom card is nice but I don't think Delta is included in that.  Am I missing something?

 

EDIT:  ok, the 2x points on dining is useful but there are better rewards elsewhere (USBank).


.......NPSL..…..…$28K….....….$25K.............$20K..............$20K..............$20K..….......$9.5K…........$7.5K.…........$9K..............$4.5K
Established Contributor
Cdnewmanpac
Posts: 767
Registered: ‎01-16-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum

Again, I think applying strict mathematical analysis to these scenarios both oversimplifies and excluded real non-math values. For example, airline miles are worth nothing until they cross a redemption threshold. 19999 points have zero value. That 20000th point, however, could be "worth" hundreds of dollars in the right scenario. And what is the dollar value of the trip of a lifetime that you couldn't have made without points? 

 

I sleep on planes, instantly and uninterruptedly, Regardless of seat comfort. Have ever since days of navy Mac flights. So business/first has no value to me, even on longer flights (denver to Durban took days). However, my wife's best friend since elementary school moved to Hawaii two years ago and they really miss each other. So I'm using my accumulated miles, csp bonus points, hilton points, etc. for a trip to Hawaii for a week in October. With a young child, I can't justify the cash spending this trip would have required, but using points earned from work related travel and everyday expenses allows me to reunite the woman I love with her best friend. Hard to assign a mathematical value to that, but worth way more to me than lounge access in Atlanta or a first class seat.

In wallet: Ink Plus 10k, AMEX TE 25k. In bag: CSP 16k, USAA WMC 15k, Hyatt 13k, United MPE 12k, AMEX HHonors 3k. In SD: Cap 1 QS 5k, Discover IT 7k. FICO 08 says my EQ is now 844, was 510 in 2010.
Established Contributor
Cdnewmanpac
Posts: 767
Registered: ‎01-16-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum

[ Edited ]

Sevenfeet wrote:

I've carried the Amex Platinum now for a few years.  The best benefit is easily the Delta Sky Club access (I travel on business for a living).  But there are other benefits too.  I had to remind my wife that when she travels alone to visit family or the occasional business trip that the Plat card will refund her bag fees...she'd forgotten this.  We both want to join the TSA's Global Entry program for international travel.  The Platinum card pays for the $100 entry fee.  Using the concierge for concert tickets, dinner reservations (especially in restaurants that are hard to get into) is pretty nice too.

 

The hotel room upgrade policy is pretty nice too, and it even works on my business trips.  I have a Amex green business I'm required to use, but if you show up and hand them the Plat card to begin with, you get all the benefits it provides for the stay.  Then I change the charge to my business green card at checkout.

 

Id been debating about adding the CSP to my portfolio but outside of the sweet metal and the opening benefit, I don't see much of what I already don't get.  The benefit of miles rollover used in conjunction with the Freedom card is nice but I don't think Delta is included in that.  Am I missing something?

 

EDIT:  ok, the 2x points on dining is useful but there are better rewards elsewhere (USBank).


No delta. transfer to united, southwest, British air, Korean air. Or Hyatt, marriott, ritz Hotel points. I used bulk for united, but have used a few hundred to top off a last minute trip on sw. 

In wallet: Ink Plus 10k, AMEX TE 25k. In bag: CSP 16k, USAA WMC 15k, Hyatt 13k, United MPE 12k, AMEX HHonors 3k. In SD: Cap 1 QS 5k, Discover IT 7k. FICO 08 says my EQ is now 844, was 510 in 2010.
Regular Contributor
Sevenfeet
Posts: 166
Registered: ‎02-06-2013
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum

[ Edited ]

Rolling over to hotel miles makes more sense, but again, it might not be enough for me to consider getting one unless I just had an inquiry burning in my pocket.  For example, many of you on this board use travel cards to save up for trips that you would have had to have paid for otherwise.  For me, since I'm in planes every other week for my job, I rack up Delta miles without breathing hard.  I typically have about 500,000 miles in the bank with them at any given time.  Last September I blew 100,000 miles on paying for my wife's first class ticket to Hawaii for our vacation (for me, I managed to make it part of a longer business trip :smileyhappy: ).  I've nearly made those miles back just by doing my job.  I also rack up hotel points but not as much as plane miles since I usually keep my trips short..a day or two at most.

 

Again, 40,000 bonus points dropped into my Marriott or Hilton account for the next vacation is pretty nice (over and above the 100,000 Hilton points I already have).  But in year two I'm paying $95 to keep the card around and by that point, is it worth it, especially since I'm paying serious coin keeping the Amex Platinum around (which I do derive benefit from)?


.......NPSL..…..…$28K….....….$25K.............$20K..............$20K..............$20K..….......$9.5K…........$7.5K.…........$9K..............$4.5K
Valued Contributor
ryanbush
Posts: 1,299
Registered: ‎08-19-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


Sevenfeet wrote:

I've carried the Amex Platinum now for a few years.  The best benefit is easily the Delta Sky Club access (I travel on business for a living).  But there are other benefits too.  I had to remind my wife that when she travels alone to visit family or the occasional business trip that the Plat card will refund her bag fees...she'd forgotten this.  We both want to join the TSA's Global Entry program for international travel.  The Platinum card pays for the $100 entry fee.  Using the concierge for concert tickets, dinner reservations (especially in restaurants that are hard to get into) is pretty nice too.

 

The hotel room upgrade policy is pretty nice too, and it even works on my business trips.  I have a Amex green business I'm required to use, but if you show up and hand them the Plat card to begin with, you get all the benefits it provides for the stay.  Then I change the charge to my business green card at checkout.

 

Id been debating about adding the CSP to my portfolio but outside of the sweet metal and the opening benefit, I don't see much of what I already don't get.  The benefit of miles rollover used in conjunction with the Freedom card is nice but I don't think Delta is included in that.  Am I missing something?

 

EDIT:  ok, the 2x points on dining is useful but there are better rewards elsewhere (USBank).


my biggest wish is that the CSP transfered 1:1 to Delta also as that's who I fly the most.  United miles are worth way more than Delta though, for example I just booked two reward tickets to Cancun, delta was 65k and 75k miles for a 900$ ticket in Coach, united would have been 60k miles for a ticket in F.  I have to drive 75 miles to fly United though and I didn't have enough united miles for both of us so I was stuck using Delta.

Chase Sapphire Perferred | Chase Freedom | AMEX Platinum | AMEX Delta Platinum | AMEX SPG | Capital One Venture | Capital One Quicksliver | Discover IT | ABFCU Visa | Citi AA WEMC
Senior Contributor
Open123
Posts: 4,155
Registered: ‎02-23-2011
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum

In my view, the CSP and Amex Plat are very different cards.  

 

For me, I've never used the Amex Plat or spending, except for the benefits in which it reimburses, e.g., airline credit, hotel spa credit, and other benefit spending.  All other spending should ideally go on other cards for a better return on spending.

 

The CSP is more aptly compared to the Amex Green or Gold.  In this case, I think the CSP offers a better value than than Amex cards especially since it doesn't charge forex fees, which is of paramount importance for any card used for int'l travel.  For those who value MR points more than UR, the Amex cards (PR Gold) may may be a better value if primarily used for airlines and domestic travel.

 

Cards we should compare to the Amex Plat would be the new Citi Prestige, Chase $400 fee cards (e.g., Ritz, UA Club card), and Delta Reserve.  I may be missing other fee benefit cards, but it's all I can think of on the top of my head.

Contributor
kekrre
Posts: 91
Registered: ‎10-31-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum


Cdnewmanpac wrote:

Again, I think applying strict mathematical analysis to these scenarios both oversimplifies and excluded real non-math values. For example, airline miles are worth nothing until they cross a redemption threshold. 19999 points have zero value. That 20000th point, however, could be "worth" hundreds of dollars in the right scenario. And what is the dollar value of the trip of a lifetime that you couldn't have made without points? 

 

I sleep on planes, instantly and uninterruptedly, Regardless of seat comfort. Have ever since days of navy Mac flights. So business/first has no value to me, even on longer flights (denver to Durban took days). However, my wife's best friend since elementary school moved to Hawaii two years ago and they really miss each other. So I'm using my accumulated miles, csp bonus points, hilton points, etc. for a trip to Hawaii for a week in October. With a young child, I can't justify the cash spending this trip would have required, but using points earned from work related travel and everyday expenses allows me to reunite the woman I love with her best friend. Hard to assign a mathematical value to that, but worth way more to me than lounge access in Atlanta or a first class seat.


My point is an only ever has been that getting a card and modifying your behavior to take advantage of perks isn't "value". Having need of those perks (e.g. frequent hotel stayer, frequent traveler) is what will get you value. Even if you travel often, if you never wanted to pay to get into the club, how does paying Amex to get you into the club "for free" make any sense?

 

Keep in mind that 2499 points on a cash back card has zero value as well.

 

I'm also right there with you on the sleep part, though. Asleep before the door closes. The only "upgrade" I would pay for in cash would be to move to a window seat.

 

 


Open123 wrote:

In my view, the CSP and Amex Plat are very different cards.

 

For me, I've never used the Amex Plat or spending, except for the benefits in which it reimburses, e.g., airline credit, hotel spa credit, and other benefit spending.  All other spending should ideally go on other cards for a better return on spending.

 

The CSP is more aptly compared to the Amex Green or Gold.  In this case, I think the CSP offers a better value than than Amex cards especially since it doesn't charge forex fees, which is of paramount importance for any card used for int'l travel.  For those who value MR points more than UR, the Amex cards (PR Gold) may may be a better value if primarily used for airlines and domestic travel.

 

Cards we should compare to the Amex Plat would be the new Citi Prestige, Chase $400 fee cards (e.g., Ritz, UA Club card), and Delta Reserve.  I may be missing other fee benefit cards, but it's all I can think of on the top of my head.


You're probably right. But the CSP is roughly equivalent to the PRG, and people compare the PRG to the Platinum in a "points versus benefits" argument. The advantage of the CSP is it gives you a similar swath of points earning ability as the PRG at a lower price point, making it an overall more attractive offer. The PRG is a great card, it's just horrendously overpriced (btw you'd have to pay interest on a balance of ~$500 a month before the CSP was as expensive as the PRG).

 

But my point (from above) is simply that people can't pick up a $450/year card with benefits that they have no use for, and then go out of their way to use them (such as scheduling extra time so they can use the lounge, picking a Starwood hotel over another brand which might be cheaper, or checking luggage to use the airline credit when they otherwise wouldn't have checked luggage).

 

 

As Cdnewmanpac pointed out on another thread some time back, a lot of the people on this forum aren't "rich", but have aspirational goals of card ownership. This leads to some conflicting opinion on what cards are "worth it". I'm not rich, but I can get a justifiable amount of value out of paying for a CSP and using it as my primary everyday spending card. I did the analysis and decided that even though I wouldn't have to spend a dollar on a Platinum card to take advantage of all of its perks, I couldn't justify the value of the perks, for me, as they relate to the annual fee.

 

My [instant] take on the cards that come with Priority Pass Select is that you'd almost always be better off buying your own Priority Pass membership if you fly domestic, especially if you fly US/UA and don't want to pony up for a full membership (or Club card). Of course, I don't think lounge access is all that important...

 

If you fly international with PP Select, you can always hang out at hot international lounge destinations such as the Safeport Business Aviation Lounge on Sal Island in Cabo Verde, the Oshoto Lounge in Windhoek, or maybe the Winzrik Lounge in Tripoli. Gotta love the 24 hour Winzrik Lounge.

 

 

I'm also really interested to here about how the Citi Prestige turns out. It's an interesting card (although every card from Citi is needlessly complicated). I think, if you value the $200 airline reimbursement at face value -- which Citi doesn't say you have to pick one particular airline -- and you take advantage of, and get greater than $200 value out of, the annual companion pass -- which presumably works for domestic as well as the stated international economy flights, you can treat this as a $0 AF card (a "go to" for flying with "other" airlines) without spending a dime outside of the primary ticket purchase.

 

 

God I write long posts. Does anyone even read all of this?

Established Contributor
FutureBillionaire
Posts: 642
Registered: ‎12-12-2012
0

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred > Amex Platinum

I agree with the Mouton that it doesn't make sense to go out if your way to use benefits you don't need. It's a waste of time and money. I'm sure Amex is happy to collect fees for generous that probably don't cost anywhere near what is charged.

It makes more sense to use a card that gets points and benefits. I fly Southwest, ago I will get more bang for my buck with CSP.
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