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HiLine
Posts: 3,092
Registered: ‎10-19-2012
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips


DaveSignal wrote:

HiLine wrote:

longtimelurker wrote:

HiLine wrote:

I wonder why people in Europe use a different verification system than ours. Did the systems develop separately? Is one more reliable than the other? 


Many systems were developed locally, and only later some attempt to make them global.

 

The US banks somewhat opposed to chip&pin EMV, classify the system as developed where telecommunications was expensive (and sometimes unreliable), so that online verification was not practical, so a chip-based approach was used.  With cheap, reliable, systems, US vendors can always use online verification, so we don't need old-fashioned solutions... blah.

 

Some of that might be true, but it doesn't address stuff like card cloning, which is easy with a mag stripe card, and is not, at least initially, detected by online verification (as the card appears to be valid).  Chip&Pin is much more secure, but some banks really are trying to leapfrog that technology to ones that are more secure.

 

 


Thanks for the insight. Any idea how difficult it is to integrate the PIN system in debit cards with the current EMV system in certain chip-and-sig credit cards to end up with the European type chip-and-PIN system? 


The main reason that US is so far behind is because the US infastructure was working satisfactorily first and it would now be very expensive to rapidly change it.  EMV is faster than printing two receipts and signing one.  And it is far more secure.  It just will take awhile before every merchant starts upgrading to chip+PIN readers instead of magnetic stripe readers.

 

Its kind of the same reasoning for why the US uses 110V AC for electrical supply, even though it has been proven long ago by a guy named Tesla that around 240V is the most efficient voltage to transfer an electric current.  We already have a huge 110V infrastructure, along with electrical equipment that runs on that voltage.  It works sufficiently and is too massive to change after everything is already set up.


Many travel rewards cards already come with chip+sign though, and a small number of creditors already implement the chip+PIN technology on their cards. USAA, UNFCU, and PenFed are prime examples. Is it more difficult to implement chip+sign than to implement chip+PIN? I can imagine chip+PIN being more hassle to the customer due to the memorization of the PIN, but is there another reason? 

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visorboy1974
Posts: 1,132
Registered: ‎05-17-2010
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips


SuperKirby wrote:

kblatt wrote:

However, if you're a frequent traveler with United, the annual $395 pays for itself many times over throughout the year just in baggage, lounge fees (a yearly pass alone is anually $395 for the United Club), 1.5x miles, and the ease of priority boarding.

I'm not sure too many people that frequently fly on other airlines carry this card, or at least I'm not sure why they would.  


 

There's a big problem with your statement, and why there's still a controversy for anyone having this card. Frequent United travelers earn all these benefits anyway for FREE, so why keep the card? Ok so then it's good for people who don't fly alot? Now that doesn't make any sense at all. That should be on Chase's United Credit card website: "For those who DON"T fly a lot, this United AIRLINES card is perfect for you!".

 

Basically, I still love this card because putting a lot of spend on the card makes the 1.5x miles worth it. And the domestic lounges for me is extra icing on the cake, but not why I like the card or would pay the AF for it. Also, If you're elite with United (Gold of higher) you get all the Star Alliance international lounges for free.

 

So really, for people who fly United alot, you get only 3 things from this card for the $395 AF:

 

1.5x miles

DOMESTIC lounges

Possibility (very low chance, trust me) of CPUs on award flights for only the primary card holder, (NOT even your companion!).

 

I guess i'm venting because I want more than those 3 things for the $395 fee


As someone who flys non-rev as much as I fly paid flights (90% domestic), this card is worth it for the lounge access alone.  I probably see the inside of a UC 2-3 times every couple of weeks so the AF more than pays for itself.      

Contributor
Voodard
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎06-13-2012
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips

I had heard in another forum that Chase is having difficulty getting the chip to set correctly into the metal United Club and Chase Sapphire cards.  Perhaps Chase will open the door to allow the user to choose between plastic and chip or metal with magnetic strip and signature. 

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takeshi74
Posts: 3,042
Registered: ‎06-05-2013
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips

[ Edited ]

That hsa been posted quite a bit but the Marriott Premier and Ritz Carlton cards are both metal with EMV.

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CS800
Posts: 6,552
Registered: ‎04-07-2008
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips

I wish I could PC my CSP to this card. Was told it's a no go




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Stiga9
Posts: 176
Registered: ‎03-20-2013
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips

I think i'm asking this too early, still: any updates/news to EMV? 

Valued Contributor
CreditScholar
Posts: 2,300
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips

Not yet. :smileysad:
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Regular Contributor
Stiga9
Posts: 176
Registered: ‎03-20-2013
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips


CreditScholar wrote:
Not yet. :smileysad:

:smileysad:

I'll come back and ask the same question in two months. 

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TheConductor
Posts: 492
Registered: ‎07-24-2012
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips

[ Edited ]

DaveSignal wrote:

The main reason that US is so far behind is because the US infastructure was working satisfactorily first and it would now be very expensive to rapidly change it.  EMV is faster than printing two receipts and signing one.  And it is far more secure.  It just will take awhile before every merchant starts upgrading to chip+PIN readers instead of magnetic stripe readers.

 

Its kind of the same reasoning for why the US uses 110V AC for electrical supply, even though it has been proven long ago by a guy named Tesla that around 240V is the most efficient voltage to transfer an electric current.  We already have a huge 110V infrastructure, along with electrical equipment that runs on that voltage.  It works sufficiently and is too massive to change after everything is already set up.


 

This is the oft-quoted reason for the delay in U.S. adoption, but I think there's also been an unmentioned secondary reason.  Chip+Pin reduces the cost of transactions because cards can be authorized without the need for a vast and expensive telecommunications network.  Certainly, the billions that would be spent implementing Chip+Pin while rendering the already-built expensive networks obsolete are part of the issue.  

 

But I believe another factor was that card networks knew that they would find themselves facing pressure from both card issuers and customers to lower their per-"swipe" transaction fees once Chip+Pin is implemented. And they didn't look gratefully on the prospect of having their profits decimated in a war on multiple fronts.

 

So it would not surprise me if the now-growing momentum behind Chip+Pin reflects some backroom dealings that have established the card networks' authority to maintain pricing at or near current levels.

 

Meanwhile, all these Chip+Signature cards coming out are just priming the pump.  They are only marginally more secure than magnetic stripes, with the only advantage being that the equipment to clone them is more expensive.  But they get chips in the hands of consumers, and begin building popular familiarity with the technology.  It's no accident that they're coming to top-tier cards first, because exclusivity is one way to convince the have-nots that something is worth having.

 

The real change is coming in October 2015, when the majority of the fraud liability for magnetic stripe transactions shifts from issuers to merchants, who will suddenly find themselves highly motivated to switch to Chip+Pin POS systems.  Until mid-2015, I expect we'll continue to see more and more Chip+Sig cards, and very few Chip+Pin.

 

And until then, my reaction to yet another Chip+Sig card is pretty much "Meh."

 

The real profit for all of us will come when Chip+Pin adoption becomes widespread, and credit card fraud accordihngly becomes much less common. 

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Valued Contributor
CreditScholar
Posts: 2,300
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Chase United Club getting EMV chips


TheConductor wrote:

DaveSignal wrote:

The main reason that US is so far behind is because the US infastructure was working satisfactorily first and it would now be very expensive to rapidly change it.  EMV is faster than printing two receipts and signing one.  And it is far more secure.  It just will take awhile before every merchant starts upgrading to chip+PIN readers instead of magnetic stripe readers.

 

Its kind of the same reasoning for why the US uses 110V AC for electrical supply, even though it has been proven long ago by a guy named Tesla that around 240V is the most efficient voltage to transfer an electric current.  We already have a huge 110V infrastructure, along with electrical equipment that runs on that voltage.  It works sufficiently and is too massive to change after everything is already set up.


 

This is the oft-quoted reason for the delay in U.S. adoption, but I think there's also been an unmentioned secondary reason.  Chip+Pin reduces the cost of transactions because cards can be authorized without the need for a vast and expensive telecommunications network.  Certainly, the billions that would be spent implementing Chip+Pin while rendering the already-built expensive networks obsolete are part of the issue.  

 

But I believe another factor was that card networks knew that they would find themselves facing pressure from both card issuers and customers to lower their per-"swipe" transaction fees once Chip+Pin is implemented. And they didn't look gratefully on the prospect of having their profits decimated in a war on multiple fronts.

 

So it would not surprise me if the now-growing momentum behind Chip+Pin reflects some backroom dealings that have established the card networks' authority to maintain pricing at or near current levels.

 

Meanwhile, all these Chip+Signature cards coming out are just priming the pump.  They are only marginally more secure than magnetic stripes, with the only advantage being that the equipment to clone them is more expensive.  But they get chips in the hands of consumers, and begin building popular familiarity with the technology.  It's no accident that they're coming to top-tier cards first, because exclusivity is one way to convince the have-nots that something is worth having.

 

The real change is coming in October 2015, when the majority of the fraud liability for magnetic stripe transactions shifts from issuers to merchants, who will suddenly find themselves highly motivated to switch to Chip+Pin POS systems.  Until mid-2015, I expect we'll continue to see more and more Chip+Sig cards, and very few Chip+Pin.

 

And until then, my reaction to yet another Chip+Sig card is pretty much "Meh."

 

The real profit for all of us will come when Chip+Pin adoption becomes widespread, and credit card fraud accordihngly becomes much less common. 


I worry about a lot of this occuring after seeing what has happened here. Several years ago, transaction fees were found to be too high and did not accurately reflect the cost of the average transaction. Therefore they were capped, and now the average swipe fee is ~1%.

 

Such low swipe fees obliterated the entire rewards card scene, since if the fees are ~1% then the rewards will be even lower (assuming the banks want to make a profit). This is why I continue to use my US-issued cards over locally available ones. If this happens back in the US, I'm concerned about the profitability (and longevity) of good rewards programs in the long-run.

 

The reality is that for the moment (regardless of what the "have nots" think), most Americans don't travel enough internationally to need a chip. Those who do will seek out alternatives, or will be able to access the required products via other mechanisms (bank accounts in multiple countries, global banking services like HSBC Premier, other private client-eqsue products, etc.). For now I'm quite happy with how things are setup, as higher swipe fees from cards issued by US banks result in greater value for me (at the expense of those who don't use rewards cards or those who don't always PIF). These people are essentially subsidizing my rewards.

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