@longtimelurker wrote:
@HiLine wrote:I wonder why people in Europe use a different verification system than ours. Did the systems develop separately? Is one more reliable than the other?
Many systems were developed locally, and only later some attempt to make them global.
The US banks somewhat opposed to chip&pin EMV, classify the system as developed where telecommunications was expensive (and sometimes unreliable), so that online verification was not practical, so a chip-based approach was used. With cheap, reliable, systems, US vendors can always use online verification, so we don't need old-fashioned solutions... blah.
Some of that might be true, but it doesn't address stuff like card cloning, which is easy with a mag stripe card, and is not, at least initially, detected by online verification (as the card appears to be valid). Chip&Pin is much more secure, but some banks really are trying to leapfrog that technology to ones that are more secure.
Thanks for the insight. Any idea how difficult it is to integrate the PIN system in debit cards with the current EMV system in certain chip-and-sig credit cards to end up with the European type chip-and-PIN system?
@HiLine wrote:
@longtimelurker wrote:
@HiLine wrote:I wonder why people in Europe use a different verification system than ours. Did the systems develop separately? Is one more reliable than the other?
Many systems were developed locally, and only later some attempt to make them global.
The US banks somewhat opposed to chip&pin EMV, classify the system as developed where telecommunications was expensive (and sometimes unreliable), so that online verification was not practical, so a chip-based approach was used. With cheap, reliable, systems, US vendors can always use online verification, so we don't need old-fashioned solutions... blah.
Some of that might be true, but it doesn't address stuff like card cloning, which is easy with a mag stripe card, and is not, at least initially, detected by online verification (as the card appears to be valid). Chip&Pin is much more secure, but some banks really are trying to leapfrog that technology to ones that are more secure.
Thanks for the insight. Any idea how difficult it is to integrate the PIN system in debit cards with the current EMV system in certain chip-and-sig credit cards to end up with the European type chip-and-PIN system?
The main reason that US is so far behind is because the US infastructure was working satisfactorily first and it would now be very expensive to rapidly change it. EMV is faster than printing two receipts and signing one. And it is far more secure. It just will take awhile before every merchant starts upgrading to chip+PIN readers instead of magnetic stripe readers.
Its kind of the same reasoning for why the US uses 110V AC for electrical supply, even though it has been proven long ago by a guy named Tesla that around 240V is the most efficient voltage to transfer an electric current. We already have a huge 110V infrastructure, along with electrical equipment that runs on that voltage. It works sufficiently and is too massive to change after everything is already set up.
EX:694 TU:744 EQ:777
@SuperKirby wrote:
@bribro wrote:Oh I agree chip & PIN is a long way away, I just wish they'd do it because chip & signature isn't all that useful in Europe. The primary issue with chip & PIN is how the liability shifts more to the cardmember.
Yeah, Chip & Signature has been very un-useful for me. Any place i've been that accepted the Chip & Sig already accepts the Mag Stripe, so really what's the point. Then there are un-manned kiosks that would not take my Chip & Sig =( Someday, someday...
I disagree. Chip and signature is useful as I have encountered several times problems with card terminals in Europe NOT reading magnetic stripes anymore. My Barclays Arrival did not work but I could have used Citi AAdvantage or BofA. Having several European chip and pin cards for 10+ years I have to say I love this system for as long as the card issuer allows to modify the intitial pin. Payment is so easy and the annoying sign process is gone. Amex Germany and many other German cards do not allow to change the initial pin and the result is that I am no longer using these cards. There is simply no way I am going to remember a ton of pins .. already some Maestro cards (debit cards) do NOT allow to modifiy the original assigned pin. 
I hate to imagine that the US issuers would implement chip and pin and set a fix pin to the card which cannot be modified by the cardholder. This would be fun. My German cards I do not use anymore due to the fact I would need to look up the pin each time. Swiss cards allow to modify your own pin and you can set the same on all cards and yes like this it is very easy with the chip and pin process.
I agree that chip+sig is better than no chip at all. In addition to unmanned kiosks, at almost every restaurant in UK, the waiter brings a chip reader to the table to pay for the meal. These readers usually don't accept swipe transactions, so the end-result of presenting a swipe card is waiting for the waiter to go find a register in a different area that has swipe readers and then coming back with a receipt. Not a huge deal, but it does cause a bit of a scene. . . I don't like to raise attention.
@DaveSignal wrote:I agree that chip+sig is better than no chip at all. In addition to unmanned kiosks, at almost every restaurant in UK, the waiter brings a chip reader to the table to pay for the meal. These readers usually don't accept swipe transactions, so the end-result of presenting a swipe card is waiting for the waiter to go find a register in a different area that has swipe readers and then coming back with a receipt. Not a huge deal, but it does cause a bit of a scene. . . I don't like to raise attention.
and I do not like my magnetic stripe cards out of sight .. this is where most fraud start.. card get copied very easily ..the chip terminals directly at the table is wonderful for this. you do not leave your cards "unattended" ... the only fraud case I ever had with a credit card was from a restaurant where the magnetic stripe got copied during the swipe process.
