@kdm31091 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
@JSS3 wrote:
It keeps being stated that Myfico'rs are an anomaly(which I agree with). That the vast majority of normal people do NOT spree and do not open as many cards as we do in a lifetime. Why the need to enact such a restrictive policy that the overwhelmingly majority of people are already doing?Because some "spree people" take things way too far. They heavily MS. They churn bonuses. The consqeuences are that Chase is forced to alter policies, nerf rewards, limit bonuses, etc.
Like it or not, it's the truth. If none of it impacted them, they wouldn't change policies. They do not want reward/bonus chasers who are opening and closing accounts constantly.
Sigh. How soon people forget. Why was MS even mentioned in this thread? Nothing to do with that, lenders figured out how to deal with that one years ago.
Anyway Finstar is correct, we're a rounding error in the aggregate Chase portfolio, and if a lender identifies an unprofitable subset of it's portfolio, expect it to be curbed somehow. This is just business, not personal.
It was merely mentioned as an example of some things that cause lenders to adjust policies. It has nothing to do with this particular policy, and was merely a list of reasons lendes may adjust policies. I'm not here to get into any debate with anyone, was merely mentioning it as one of many reasons.
Yes it has nothing to do with this particular policy, because this policy does nothing to prevent that from happening. In some ways it might actually encourage it. People who in the rewards game who value the UR program will be inclined to reduce their apps over the two year cycle. The end result is less cards for them to put their spend on. I think its the hope of Chase that the spend will go on to their cards as a result. If it was a question of people churning chase cards then as I mentioned before they could remove the bonus after you get it the first time. Instead they make it once every two years, which was the policy before. So in terms of them giving out bonuses they still pretty much give out the same amount, but their customers have fewer other lenders to choose from.
;
@JSS3 wrote:
I hope it doesn't come across as if we're whining. Speaking for myself, I realize, "It is what it is" and nothing can be done about it at the moment. I just like seeing data points and speculating. It's just us communicating with eachother. What else are we supposed to do when not answering credit questions? We're just hanging, man.
Was this to me for my heavy handed comment? 
Nah I'm actually following both threads with interest, just working for a lender I can understand why Chase made this change and I do think that we're even more outliers now than we were a few years back in terms of behavior on the forums.
That said I'm still doing my small sprees, have no real reason to stop based on this but I'm probably one of the more conservative people in terms of size and frequency out of anyone who subscribes to the spree methodology. If Chase (who's my primary financial institution and overall I'm pretty pleased with them for that) denies me for a card in the future, OK, but as others have pointed out I have a right to move my accounts as a result too. Admittedly based on this I'm looking more towards a different restaurant card than the AARP because diversification is a good thing.
If more lenders adopt a similar policy then I think we'll see behavior change on the forum, maybe for the better from my perspective of helping people build healthy credit files... the average consumer has something like 5 or maybe even less credit cards, so on the whole 5 in two years seems to be pretty reasonable from a lender stand point.
It probably had little to do with us directly, bonuses were intended to get people in and use their cards, and to keep using them. Direct cash equivalent marketing... they can either remove the bonuses, or as another poster suggested make it a once in a lifetime thing, or change their underwriting. What's really interesting to me is if we see a difference in the credit strata as well to obtain a Chase card or if it just comes down to "if you want us to commit to you, you need to commit to us" which I haven't really seen much of anywhere else except the mortgage lender side, but that's admittedly a lot more involved and intricate dance number.
My theory anyway.
@Revelate wrote:
@JSS3 wrote:
I hope it doesn't come across as if we're whining. Speaking for myself, I realize, "It is what it is" and nothing can be done about it at the moment. I just like seeing data points and speculating. It's just us communicating with eachother. What else are we supposed to do when not answering credit questions? We're just hanging, man.Was this to me for my heavy handed comment?
Nah I'm actually following both threads with interest, just working for a lender I can understand why Chase made this change and I do think that we're even more outliers now than we were a few years back in terms of behavior on the forums.
That said I'm still doing my small sprees, have no real reason to stop based on this but I'm probably one of the more conservative people in terms of size and frequency out of anyone who subscribes to the spree methodology. If Chase (who's my primary financial institution and overall I'm pretty pleased with them for that) denies me for a card in the future, OK, but as others have pointed out I have a right to move my accounts as a result too. Admittedly based on this I'm looking more towards a different restaurant card than the AARP because diversification is a good thing.
If more lenders adopt a similar policy then I think we'll see behavior change on the forum, maybe for the better from my perspective of helping people build healthy credit files... the average consumer has something like 5 or maybe even less credit cards, so on the whole 5 in two years seems to be pretty reasonable from a lender stand point.
It probably had little to do with us directly, bonuses were intended to get people in and use their cards, and to keep using them. Direct cash equivalent marketing... they can either remove the bonuses, or as another poster suggested make it a once in a lifetime thing, or change their underwriting. What's really interesting to me is if we see a difference in the credit strata as well to obtain a Chase card or if it just comes down to "if you want us to commit to you, you need to commit to us" which I haven't really seen much of anywhere else except the mortgage lender side, but that's admittedly a lot more involved and intricate dance number.
My theory anyway.
I think its this. In terms of outliers I'm not sure if you mean people are applying for less credit cards for rewards? I would think with all the bloggers the numbers of people applying for more credit cards would be growing?
@Revelate wrote:
@JSS3 wrote:
I hope it doesn't come across as if we're whining. Speaking for myself, I realize, "It is what it is" and nothing can be done about it at the moment. I just like seeing data points and speculating. It's just us communicating with eachother. What else are we supposed to do when not answering credit questions? We're just hanging, man.Was this to me for my heavy handed comment?
Nah I'm actually following both threads with interest, just working for a lender I can understand why Chase made this change and I do think that we're even more outliers now than we were a few years back in terms of behavior on the forums.
That said I'm still doing my small sprees, have no real reason to stop based on this but I'm probably one of the more conservative people in terms of size and frequency out of anyone who subscribes to the spree methodology. If Chase (who's my primary financial institution and overall I'm pretty pleased with them for that) denies me for a card in the future, OK, but as others have pointed out I have a right to move my accounts as a result too. Admittedly based on this I'm looking more towards a different restaurant card than the AARP because diversification is a good thing.
If more lenders adopt a similar policy then I think we'll see behavior change on the forum, maybe for the better from my perspective of helping people build healthy credit files... the average consumer has something like 5 or maybe even less credit cards, so on the whole 5 in two years seems to be pretty reasonable from a lender stand point.
It probably had little to do with us directly, bonuses were intended to get people in and use their cards, and to keep using them. Direct cash equivalent marketing... they can either remove the bonuses, or as another poster suggested make it a once in a lifetime thing, or change their underwriting. What's really interesting to me is if we see a difference in the credit strata as well to obtain a Chase card or if it just comes down to "if you want us to commit to you, you need to commit to us" which I haven't really seen much of anywhere else except the mortgage lender side, but that's admittedly a lot more involved and intricate dance number.
My theory anyway.
Exactly. I think if the policy is emulated with other lenders we will see a gradual change in the average # of cards even myfico'ers have
@Kostya1992 wrote:
@myjourney wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
@Kostya1992 wrote:Don't worry they'll be crawling back when nobody wants to apply for their cards because of this stupidity.
An item to keep in mind, the forum members and most other CC boards in general (including bloggers and whatnot) represent a tiny uiverse (let's emphasize that again - TINY, ooops I made it too big) when compared to all of Chase's cardholders. Do you have any clue as to the number of outstanding credit card receivables that Chase holds? and the total of CC customers worldwide? This is about shareholder value, numbers on the street matter more than people being fussy on their recent CC policies. People abuse or circumvent, they simply adapt.
Typically, and from previous trends, Chase tends to stick to their guns for most UW policies (i.e. APR reductions, CLIs, etc). So, I suppose we'll see what the future brings!
+1000 this new policy will not break or make them in any, way, shape or form
In fact these forums are such a small minority that the average consumer who by the way does not do app sprees won't even know there was a policy change
This just sets a precedent. If they see that they can get away with this type of stupid policy they'll add more to "reduce risk".
Unfortunately it's there right to set policy on who, how and terms of who they lend to.
As to stupid policy that's subjective don't you think you don't have to answer to shareholders and show profits?
I mean this is a bank we're talking about.
Also to note "If they see they can get away with this stupid policy they'll add more to "reduce risk"
Per the comment (blue) its part of an ever changing T/C which you either agree with or accept the denial.....Lol
If you've agreed then note the lawyer fine print that's always there....something to the effect
We reserve the rights to alter and change blah blah blah at anytime...
Don't take it personally Chase is a business and a rather large business I might add and in business to make money with as little risk as possible
IMHO there's your precedent and not a thing a small minority (forums, Blogs,) or large public outcry can do or say to run Chase's business model.
Not going to happen I'm just being honest.
Do I agree with the policy no but I just go with the rules that apply when I hit the submit app button that's the only control I have over big banks!!!!!
One finger on a keyboard >>>>>>
@red259 wrote:I think its this. In terms of outliers I'm not sure if you mean people are applying for less credit cards for rewards? I would think with all the bloggers the numbers of people applying for more credit cards would be growing?
I think you're absolutely right that I suspect more people are applying for more credit cards as a whole, but maybe I'm just in an awkward financial strata as far as my coworkers are concerned but the number of debit cards is just absurd. I'm not seeing a really heavy uptake in credit card use or strategic reward taking when I'm at Starbucks or one of the quick food places based on what people are paying with even outside my coworkers (I know I know, I'm stalkerish in that regard) so I don't know how deep the inroads actually are.
It has to be working somewhere or they wouldn't keep pushing it, not sure what consumers they're getting. Oh to be working for a credit card issuers at the moment haha, I probably would be snooping one of the sanitized databases in a staging environment to scratch my curiosity itch.
I also don't pay much attention to advertising, but I probably think I'm outside the societal norms at even 9 credit cards.
@kdm31091 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@JSS3 wrote:
I hope it doesn't come across as if we're whining. Speaking for myself, I realize, "It is what it is" and nothing can be done about it at the moment. I just like seeing data points and speculating. It's just us communicating witheachother. What else are we supposed to do when not answering credit questions? We're just hanging, man.Was this to me for my heavy handed comment?
Nah I'm actually following both threads with interest, just working for a lender I can understand why Chase made this change and I do think that we're even more outliers now than we were a few years back in terms of behavior on the forums.
That said I'm still doing my small sprees, have no real reason to stop based on this but I'm probably one of the more conservative people in terms of size and frequency out of anyone who subscribes to the spree methodology. If Chase (who's my primary financial institution and overall I'm pretty pleased with them for that) denies me for a card in the future, OK, but as others have pointed out I have a right to move my accounts as a result too. Admittedly based on this I'm looking more towards a different restaurant card than the AARP because diversification is a good thing.
If more lenders adopt a similar policy then I think we'll see behavior change on the forum, maybe for the better from my perspective of helping people build healthy credit files... the average consumer has something like 5 or maybe even less credit cards, so on the whole 5 in two years seems to be pretty reasonable from a lender stand point.
It probably had little to do with us directly, bonuses were intended to get people in and use their cards, and to keep using them. Direct cash equivalent marketing... they can either remove the bonuses, or as another poster suggested make it a once in a lifetime thing, or change their underwriting. What's really interesting to me is if we see a difference in the credit strata as well to obtain a Chase card or if it just comes down to "if you want us to commit to you, you need to commit to us" which I haven't really seen much of anywhere else except the mortgage lender side, but that's admittedly a lot more involved and intricate dance number.
My theory anyway.
Exactly. I think if the policy is emulated with other lenders we will see a gradual change in the average # of cards even myfico'ers have
Well yea because people won't be able to apply for too many cards before they get denied! 
I disagree with Rev's comment that it would be good for the people on the forums (well maybe for some people) as I think that if everyone started doing this then people may tend to focus on one or two banks only and not have diversity of lenders. Then if AA gets taken they are pretty much screwed. Not so much an issue for those of us who got a bunch of cards already, but for those who are still building up and have high APR cards or lousy credit lines this policy could slow their ability to get good cards.