Also to one OP the Fidelity Amex does have a sign-up bonus through a special link.. Not sure if it is targeted or the general public, but have been offered it as it does ask for your fidelity account #... Granted I believe it is only like $50, but for a no AF card it is still free money on a 2% card
@longtimelurker wrote:
@happypill wrote:
To those who claim unequivocally that the Fidelity Amex & Double Cash are better, I offer the following. If you're compared 1 vs. 1, neither card offers a sign-on bonus and the Venture offers a $400 sign-on bonus. Taken in conjunction with the $59 AF with first year free, the Venture is better than those cards for the first 8 years or so, Given how much things change in that period of time, I'd say that there's no way those other cards can offset the $400. Now, the optimal strategy would be to get the Venture, collect the bonus, then get another card afterwards, but if you're comparing 1 vs. 1, there's no contest. For those rocking the DC or Fidelity, let us know about 8 years from now if it's been worth it because until that time you'll be behind.
But precisely because the optimal strategy is different, I don't give much weight to this way of looking at it. In those 8 years, many things can happen, e.g.
1) Venture benefits could be nerfed
2) DC or Fid Amex could increase rewards
3) Venture AF could increase
4) A new better card could come along.
So this is why I think with ccs you live in the moment, which in this case translates as get the bonus and then reevaluate. It MAY be worth paying the AF in the second and subsequent year if you have a large amount of foreign charges, enough that getting 2% outweighs the free 1.5% QS etc, but I suspect for many it won't.
I think our thoughts align exactly, but I'd draw the following conclusion. Without knowing what the next 8 years brings, pocketing the $400 up front is the soundest strategy. Heck, I'd bet that 2 years from now, many people will have a whole different slate of cards in their wallets (better offers, better rewards, changes in their income or credit, etc.) so looking forward 8 years for the DC or Fidelity to have the advantage is folly. Pocket the money, then if your credit can take it, apply for something else down the road.
@yfan wrote:
@happypill wrote:
To those who claim unequivocally that the Fidelity Amex & Double Cash are better, I offer the following. If you're compared 1 vs. 1, neither card offers a sign-on bonus and the Venture offers a $400 sign-on bonus. Taken in conjunction with the $59 AF with first year free, the Venture is better than those cards for the first 8 years or so, Given how much things change in that period of time, I'd say that there's no way those other cards can offset the $400. Now, the optimal strategy would be to get the Venture, collect the bonus, then get another card afterwards, but if you're comparing 1 vs. 1, there's no contest. For those rocking the DC or Fidelity, let us know about 8 years from now if it's been worth it because until that time you'll be behind.
Hmm, you know, I hadn't thought about the AF in this context of being offset by the bonus for several years. But that's definitely true (although it turns out that Citi does offer a sign-up bonus to targeted customers). But the only problem with it is the opportunity cost of other travel cards. Since in order to "redeem" Venture miles, your travel has to be paid for by your Venture card in the first place, you'd have to sacrifice potentially higher rewards earning ability with other cards.
For example, my primary travel card is the Orbitz Rewards Visa. Its base earn rate is the same 2% as the Venture, but for travel (prepaid hotels and flights booked through Orbitz), the rate jumps to 5% - and that's in addition to earning airline miles and the extra 1-5% for being a Orbitz rewards member, but that's available for anyone. The only difference is that Orbitz Rewards can only be redeemed on an Orbitz hotel booking and nothing else. Still, for someone who uses Orbitz to book hotels anyway, that's as good as cash.
And while the Orbitz Rewards Visa's bonus is small ($50 for a $200 spend), the card runs promos throughout the year (right now in June, there's a promo for $10 for swiping the card 5 times and for the month of April they doubled the base earn rate to 4%). These promos can easily net the careful user an extra $100 a year.
So if the Venture's spend requirement were all done in travel spend, the Venture would earn $90 less before the bonus than the Orbitz Visa. Add to it the Orbitz Visa's $50 bonus and the $100 you can make through constant promos on the Orbitz Visa. That's $240 in the first year. Accounting for the bonus, Orbitz starts out at the end of the first year being only $160 shy. Given that from the second year on, Orbitz Visa has no AF and Venture has a $59 AF, that advantages vanishes rather quickly with the higher travel earn rate on the Orbitz Visa as well as promos.
I agree with your reasoning, but the Venture (and Arrival+) have a similar advantage as well, depending on how you book travel. The Venture allows you to book travel on any site or with any offer. For someone like myself who cannot book in advance and often books less than 2 weeks prior to travel, sites that offer last minute deals soemtimes have the best offers. If you travel last minute, sometimes you get 50-80% off on Hotwire and other travel sites, and airlines also send out last minute deals. I probably get the best value from hotel partners - I live in the Bay Area which is pretty good for weekend getaways because I'm driving distance to Napa Wine Country, Tahoe, Yosemite, Big Sur, Monterey, Central Coast wineries (I like wine!), even LA. They send out offers with discounted rates, arrival ammenities, free meals, etc. And since you're paying normally, you're not limtied to just the deal from one vendor.
The key to all of those deals is that they need to paid for normally with a credit card. You can't book them with points generally. So, cash back cards definitely work better for me than any type of points cards, and the reason is because of the types of deals I'm able to book. There's just no way for me to book 6 months in advance.
Since the conversation has expanded to other cards, the absolute best travel card for my purposes would be the Security Service FCU Power Travel Rewards card. It's a cash back rewards card, but you get 3x points for gas, dining & travel. It has an APR of 10-11% which puts it right up there with some lower rate cards. It has no fees of any kind, including from what I can tell, balance transfer where the APR is just 7.9% or cash advance (never heard of this with any other card). No FTF and a bunch of other travel perks. There are just two limitations that I can see holding this card back from superstardom; first is $50k minimum annual income (I'm ok there), and 2nd is very limited geography of I think Colorado, Utah & Texas. I live in California of course, but my company is HQ in Denver and there's actually a branch on the ground floor of our World HQ. I travel there often and I was able to join the CU that way. It is my #1 priority when I exit the garden in July - hard to say what the underwriting requirements are, but I hope I get lucky.
@core wrote:If you open any Crapital One card, you'll be back here in 6 months asking if it's OK to close it. Best not to get there in the first place.
Really? We are back to this "crapital One" nonsense? Many people are quite happy with capital one cards and get better lines than they do from other lenders, plus SP CLI. In terms of OP's question the two cards are very different and it depends on your travel goals. If you want to fly business and first class then CSP will be better. If you want flexibility and basically redeeming for cash back on travel expenses then cap 1 will be better, although there are other cashback cards that may be a better fit.
;
@kdm31091 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
@DeeBee78 wrote:
@core wrote:If you open any Crapital One card, you'll be back here in 6 months asking if it's OK to close it. Best not to get there in the first place.
That's subjective, and quite opinionated. Pretty bad advice...
The Venture isn't a terrible card at all. The limits are generally higher than the CSP as well. The singup bonus may not be as good, but the AF sort of makes up for it.
The only thing I dislike about the Venture is that BK'ers use it to get a ridiculous limit.
Haha! I dislike that too.
Honestly OP they're two different cards. Venture is only really a "travel card" by marketing. You get 2% back on everything only redeemable for travel. I don't know anyone wants to pay for that card at this point when they can have a free Citi Double Cash with 2% on everything and no restrictions and right now Discover is also giving 2% on everything with no restrictions if you can get the promo. Point is there's IMO little reason to pay the Venture; I like Capital One but this particular card is overrated. Aside from large limits, I have no idea why people want to pay an AF for something they can get for free (the 2% back) and with no restrictions elswhere.
CSP makes sense really only with pretty large spend to come out ahead of the AF. Make sure you run the numbers. You earn 1% on everything except travel and dining, but you can redeem the points at full value for cash, though the real allure of the card is transferring the points to travel partners which extends their value. Still, it's a card geared for high spend.
Confused on that point; how does that make any difference in anyone else's life whatsoever?
With how credit reporting works I'm not opposed to particular lenders offering shortcuts to recovery. With virtually every major lender in the last 3ish years even I can probably suggest one short-cut on people's rebuilding path (Amex CLI policy, Chase former recon policy, Barclay's BK friendliness IIRC, Cap 1's new astonishing limit policies, BOFA's old secured card policies, etc) depending what their ultimate goals are and I really haven't kept up with this side of the credit house in the last two years give or take.
I think the main danger is that people get a huge limit on a Venture and it makes them overconfident that "everything is fine". Then they start apping again and get slapped with the real world of declines and/or low limits.
Does this happen to everyone? No, but Capital One shouldn't tease people with high limits who are not really in a position to "deserve" them at the moment. That's just my opinion.
I could care less about this. What difference does it make to me what a lender and another customer agree on. Like people should be required to start off with low limits. If cap 1 wants to give someone a larger limit so be it. That is really nobody's business but cap 1 & the customer.