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Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances

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Underh20
Frequent Contributor

Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances

Ok, color me crazy, but I just do not understand this.

 

I applied for a Citibank card.  They pulled Experian where my last reported FICO was something like 730 with it likely going up a point or two since then.  1 inquiry over past year.  0 baddies.  AAoA on 3 TL's approximately 2 years. Utilization at about 3%.

 

Reason for being declined: "Your credit bureau report shows you have no revolving accounts with a balance."

 

I PIF before statement cuts.  My 3 TL's are very happy with that (other than they never get any interest out of me), so why is that a negative factor?  Someone please educate me.

 

 

Message 1 of 33
32 REPLIES 32
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances

You should always have one account showing a small balance. This yields your best possible score. No balances means you don't use credit.

 

Edit: Banks are crazy right now. I'm not surprised by anything.

Message Edited by Ulan on 05-15-2009 07:27 PM
Message 2 of 33
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances


@Underh20 wrote:

Ok, color me crazy, but I just do not understand this.

 

I applied for a Citibank card.  They pulled Experian where my last reported FICO was something like 730 with it likely going up a point or two since then.  1 inquiry over past year.  0 baddies.  AAoA on 3 TL's approximately 2 years. Utilization at about 3%.

 

Reason for being declined: "Your credit bureau report shows you have no revolving accounts with a balance."

 

I PIF before statement cuts.  My 3 TL's are very happy with that (other than they never get any interest out of me), so why is that a negative factor?  Someone please educate me.

 

 


This is the very reason i don't have ONE card with these clowns. Because of things just like that, for indiviuals that are responsible and PIF every month they don't want you as a customer because they want you to have hefty balances so they can make BIG money off of you. You can do much better then Citi....try RBS Platinum Mastercard, or Meijer Platinum  you'll get extremely generous limits with them. Good LuckSmiley Wink

 

King

Message Edited by 74king on 05-15-2009 07:31 PM
Message 3 of 33
Underh20
Frequent Contributor

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances

Ulan:

 

I certainly don't disagree with you, but I just can't see FICO's or Citibank's logic in appreciating you more from a credit risk perspective if you carry balances.  They can see my credit limits, the highest balance reported and the fact that the TL is still open and that should indicate pretty much risk-free scenario.  Isn't the reason these banks are neck deep in doodoo that they've historically made poor risk decisions?

 

I tried a recon and the lady, very nice, told me that they like to see a balance -- no matter how small.  She suggested faxing them a copy of my credit report showing a balance within the next 90 days and they'll revisit the issue.

 

I'm thinking about a phone call to an acquaintance in Citibank's executive relations team.

Message 4 of 33
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances

The way I started dealing with this was to pay all but $5 off on one account on the day before the statement drops, the other $5 I pay on the due date shown on that statement - since the balance pretty much reports either on the statement date or in the next two weeks I only get a balance of $5 showing on any account and then I don't pay any interest cause I pay that off on the due date.

 

It's a pain but if it's what I need to do then so be it

Message 5 of 33
Underh20
Frequent Contributor

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances


@Anonymous wrote:

The way I started dealing with this was to pay all but $5 off on one account on the day before the statement drops, the other $5 I pay on the due date shown on that statement - since the balance pretty much reports either on the statement date or in the next two weeks I only get a balance of $5 showing on any account and then I don't pay any interest cause I pay that off on the due date.

 

It's a pain but if it's what I need to do then so be it


 

Yup, that's my new game plan.  I have not done that up to now because of the incredible hassle it is making credit card payments while stationed overseas. 

 

I'll use my USAA account and set it up to automatically pay $5 to each of my TL's one week after the billing cycle ends.  Then I'll manually go in before statement cutoff and pay everything except $5. 

 

I still think Citibank is crazy, but I guess you have to beat them at their own game.

Message 6 of 33
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances


 

Reason for being declined: "Your credit bureau report shows you have no revolving accounts with a balance."

 

I PIF before statement cuts.  My 3 TL's are very happy with that (other than they never get any interest out of me), so why is that a negative factor?  Someone please educate me.

 

 


Welcome to America. Your are only a good customer if you have tons of cards with tons of balance. Then they give you another card. The whole system and how are the scores  calculated is totally ridiculous.

Bottom line: They have learned nothing, absolutely nothing from the financial crisis

Message 7 of 33
Underh20
Frequent Contributor

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances


@Anonymous wrote:

 

Reason for being declined: "Your credit bureau report shows you have no revolving accounts with a balance."

 

I PIF before statement cuts.  My 3 TL's are very happy with that (other than they never get any interest out of me), so why is that a negative factor?  Someone please educate me.

 

 


Welcome to America. Your are only a good customer if you have tons of cards with tons of balance. Then they give you another card. The whole system and how are the scores  calculated is totally ridiculous.

Bottom line: They have learned nothing, absolutely nothing from the financial crisis


You are, unfortunately, right.

 

As hard as it is to believe, the credit reporting and even bank issuance of credit cards is far, far better in Hong Kong and China.  I just hope that some day FICO doesn't show up here and make everything totally FUBAR.

Message 8 of 33
smallfry
Senior Contributor

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances


@Underh20 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

The way I started dealing with this was to pay all but $5 off on one account on the day before the statement drops, the other $5 I pay on the due date shown on that statement - since the balance pretty much reports either on the statement date or in the next two weeks I only get a balance of $5 showing on any account and then I don't pay any interest cause I pay that off on the due date.

 

It's a pain but if it's what I need to do then so be it


 

Yup, that's my new game plan.  I have not done that up to now because of the incredible hassle it is making credit card payments while stationed overseas. 

 

I'll use my USAA account and set it up to automatically pay $5 to each of my TL's one week after the billing cycle ends.  Then I'll manually go in before statement cutoff and pay everything except $5. 

 

I still think Citibank is crazy, but I guess you have to beat them at their own game.


I'd be really careful about setting up payments. I know of a few whoops. Why not just do it yourself online and avoid a possible mistake? 

Message 9 of 33
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Citi: Penalized for not carrying balances

Creditors use your credit report, history and FICO to analyze:

 

1.  Risk potential

2.  Profit potential

 

Risk obviously deals with:  "will you pay pay as agreed" meanin not late and will pay according to terms.

 

Profit deals with:  "will you result in useage that derives adequate revenues to justify the CL"

 

Your CR also reports your historical balances and your actual payment amount last month.  So, if you had $2000 in charges, but paid $2000, they will see $0 balance with a payment amount of $2000.

 

If they see a historical $0 balance, current $0 balance and small or no actual payment.....why would they issue the card?  Unless it has a nice fat AF, they stand to make very little, if any, profit.  Issuers have a cost associated with issuing and maintaining new accounts. 

 

There is only one reason for issuing credit:  return on investment.  Which has 2 objectives:

 

Rule #1:  First and foremost, get the return OF principal (meaning they don't lose the capital extended)

Rule #2:  Maximize the return ON principal (meaning use of capital to derive the best profitability). 

 

Moral of the story:  Show that you pose little or no risk (sterling CR & FICO), but that you also present profitability.  Report a balance at all times that is 1 - 9% of total CL's on 1 (no more than 2) accounts.  The reported balance can still be PIF by due date to avoid any interest accrual.

 

FINALLY I have one last little dittie to throw at you, which some may say sounds crazy, but hear it out.  Never pay cash for an automobile.  Always finance it.  Never pay more down that you absolutely have to, borrow all amounts you can, including TTL as long as the rate is not jacked by the amount.

 

Sounds crazy right?  Well, here is my theory.   Save your cash and/or down payment.  Borrow the full price or as much as possible.  Obtain the loan.  Then apply your cash down to the loan.  This lowers your balance to original loan amount ratio, which is good, or pays it off after the loan is secured, thereby providing a positive, paid in full TL.

 

If you were paying cash for the vehicle, obtain the loan, then pay the loan off.  Yes, for the best history and AAoA, you can argue 12 payments or 24 payments before paying off.  That would be the "ideal" credit scenario, but is not the ideal "financial" decision.  If you have the cash, then saving the interest (3.99 or higher) is a better return than what banks or CU's will give you to save it.

 

Having obtained the loan (as long as you are not going to kill AAoA), then paying it off, even if immediately, still provides a positive TL which shows a large loan amount obtained, through a prime or preferred lender, that was paid in full (without refinance incurring new loan) in short order, demonstrating liquidity.

 

This is still positive.  Provides additional credit reference.  Cost you virtually nothing (autos do not have closing costs related to the loan....TTL applies even to cash purchases). 

 

Disclaimers:  You should not do this if you have too many new accounts, very short AAoA, are seeking or will be seeking a mortgage within 6 to 12 months, have far too many inquiries or any other scenario in which a new loan will negatively impact you.  With that said, if you have stable credit, are not shopping new credit and have a moderate to well aged AAoA, then by putting a new auto loan TL on your CR every 5 years is a good idea just to keep that portion of your credit mix well lubricated and with recent enough history to keep your CR and FICO well tuned.  Do not do this every 12 months or in some manner that will kill AAoA, etc.

 

Why do this?  Because when you do want a loan or need a loan, you will be in prime circumstances and of credibility to your prospective lenders that they will line up to serve your needs.  This is "exercising" your creditbility and credit in a manner to provide better future options, not because of current need.

Message Edited by txjohn on 05-16-2009 08:41 AM
Message 10 of 33
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