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inquring_minds
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex

I use TrueCredit and have not fiddled with any pre-approvals.
Great Credit is Sexy :smileywink:

May 2013 - TU 699 / EX 718 / EQ 737


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haulingthescoreup
Posts: 28,115
Registered: ‎04-01-2007
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex



inquring_minds wrote:
I use TrueCredit and have not fiddled with any pre-approvals.



Definitely spooky. Are they going to send you a letter explaining why?
* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
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inquring_minds
Posts: 171
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex

Yes, waiting for a letter.
Great Credit is Sexy :smileywink:

May 2013 - TU 699 / EX 718 / EQ 737


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cheddar
Posts: 6,794
Registered: ‎09-29-2007
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex



inquring_minds wrote:
Yes, waiting for a letter.


I was denied a CLI for the same reason, although I had two hard pulls in the last six months.  The theory at the time was that they might have been looking at my softs, as well.
 
Here's the thread:
 
 
A couple of things, though:
 
Amex may not have done a pull on the day you requested a CLI, but instead they may have been using their most recent routine "Account Review" pull.  If that pull was from May or June, and your last hard inquiry was from December, as you posted, then you would have had at least one hard inquiry in the last six months as of the date of that pull.  There have been others who have posted that they were declined for a CLI due to only one hard inquiry in the previous six months, too.
 
Also, a CRA is not supposed to show soft pulls to anyone but you.  That is per FCRA.  If a CRA generates a report that includes your soft pulls and produces that report for anyone but you, they are in violation.
 
----------------------------
App free since 7/11/08.
TU 744 / EX 710 / EQ 694 (Starting to slip. :smileysurprised: )
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fevmlo
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex



mjbfan79 wrote:


fevmlo wrote:

I don't think people here are talking about 'seeking so much credit' - they are talking about monitoring their own credit. THAT kind of inquiry. Plus the kind of inquiry that isn't initiated by them at all - either in the seeking of new credit or the checking of their own credit scores, but in the scouring of credit files for suitable new customers by 'certain' (*cough* Capital One! *cough*) CCCs.

We all know that 'many inquiries' of the 'seeking new credit' kind looks bad, just as we know that you've been an AmEx customer since 1908 or thereabouts. But the OP was told that despite not actually having any hard pulls on their file from having applied for any new credit in the last six months, they have too many inquiries in the last six months. What kind of inquiries is AmEx referring to, then? If AmEx thinks the OP is being an impertinent 'young'un' in daring to ask for a CLI without having been a customer since 1908 or thereabouts, then they should just say 'no, you shouldn't ask for CLIs too soon', or similar... not complain about inquiries that either don't exist or are a worrying sign of their finding something new to penalize customers for. (Daring to check their own credit - imagine, the sheer audacity of it!)

Message Edited by fevmlo on 07-29-2008 08:42 PM

1908 lol..............lol






Ooops, I think I've been repeating myself - message-editing went a bit wrong!! :smileysad:
EQ: 723 / TU: 760 (August 2009)
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Watchmann
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex

[ Edited ]


fevmlo wrote:

We all know that 'many inquiries' of the 'seeking new credit' kind looks bad, just as we know that you've been an AmEx customer since 1908 or thereabouts. But the OP was told that despite not actually having any hard pulls on their file from having applied for any new credit in the last six months, they have too many inquiries in the last six months. What kind of inquiries is AmEx referring to, then? If AmEx thinks the OP is being an impertinent 'young'un' in daring to ask for a CLI without having been a customer since 1908 or thereabouts, then they should just say 'no, you shouldn't ask for CLIs too soon', or similar... not complain about inquiries that either don't exist or are a worrying sign of their finding something new to penalize customers for. (Daring to check their own credit - imagine, the sheer audacity of it!)



1908, yeah, that's a good one. :-)  But don't just dismiss my REAL history with AMEX out of hand.  It's based on dealing with them over many years with many communications with them in one form or another.  I do have an idea on how their corporate systems work, what they like, and what makes them skittish.
 
Yes, I know the OP was talking about doing his own pulling, but can we say for 100% that AMEX doesn't have get some sort of feedback from the FICO model even on soft inquiries?  We don't know exactly what relationship AMEX has with the CRA's.  There are many business relationships in the credit game, and there is a two way street here.  Both the CRA's and credit provider's have needs.  It may not be the exact number of soft inquiries, but there may be some other indicator that is provided that does not run afoul of the law.   


Message Edited by Watchmann on 07-29-2008 10:06 PM
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WhirledPeasPlease
Posts: 3,418
Registered: ‎12-27-2007
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex



Watchmann wrote:


fevmlo wrote:

We all know that 'many inquiries' of the 'seeking new credit' kind looks bad, just as we know that you've been an AmEx customer since 1908 or thereabouts. But the OP was told that despite not actually having any hard pulls on their file from having applied for any new credit in the last six months, they have too many inquiries in the last six months. What kind of inquiries is AmEx referring to, then? If AmEx thinks the OP is being an impertinent 'young'un' in daring to ask for a CLI without having been a customer since 1908 or thereabouts, then they should just say 'no, you shouldn't ask for CLIs too soon', or similar... not complain about inquiries that either don't exist or are a worrying sign of their finding something new to penalize customers for. (Daring to check their own credit - imagine, the sheer audacity of it!)



1908, yeah, that's a good one. :-)  But don't just ignore my REAL history with AMEX out of hand.  It's based on dealing with them over many years.  I do have an idea on how their corporate systems work, what they like, and what makes them skittish.
 
Yes, I know the OP was talking about doing his own pulling, but can we say for 100% that AMEX doesn't have get sort of feedback from the FICO model even on soft inquiries?  We don't know exactly what relationship AMEX has with the CRA's.  There are many business relationships in the credit game, and there is a two way street here.  Both the CRA's and credit provider's have needs.



Yes, the FCRA offers some protection.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
From 700 in 2008 to 498 in 2012...
4/23/12 -- BK 13 date of filing EQ = 505
4/18/12 -- EQ 498
12/5/13 -- EQ 669
Here we go.... back on track.
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cheddar
Posts: 6,794
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex



Watchmann wrote:
 
Yes, I know the OP was talking about doing his own pulling, but can we say for 100% that AMEX doesn't have get some sort of feedback from the FICO model even on soft inquiries?
 

Yes.  We can.  There is none.
 


Watchmann wrote:
 
We don't know exactly what relationship AMEX has with the CRA's.

CRAs generating reports that allow creditors to view soft inquiries is not legal, regardless of what sort of relationship the creditor has with the CRA.
 


Watchmann wrote:
 
It may not be the exact number of soft inquiries, but there may be some other indicator
that is provided that does not run afoul of the law.   


What might that be?  I can't imagine any indicator of soft inquiries coming from a CRA to a creditor that doesn't run afoul of the law.

 
----------------------------
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TU 744 / EX 710 / EQ 694 (Starting to slip. :smileysurprised: )
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fevmlo
Posts: 640
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex

[ Edited ]

Watchmann wrote:


fevmlo wrote:

We all know that 'many inquiries' of the 'seeking new credit' kind looks bad, just as we know that you've been an AmEx customer since 1908 or thereabouts. But the OP was told that despite not actually having any hard pulls on their file from having applied for any new credit in the last six months, they have too many inquiries in the last six months. What kind of inquiries is AmEx referring to, then? If AmEx thinks the OP is being an impertinent 'young'un' in daring to ask for a CLI without having been a customer since 1908 or thereabouts, then they should just say 'no, you shouldn't ask for CLIs too soon', or similar... not complain about inquiries that either don't exist or are a worrying sign of their finding something new to penalize customers for. (Daring to check their own credit - imagine, the sheer audacity of it!)



1908, yeah, that's a good one. :-)  But don't just dismiss my REAL history with AMEX out of hand.  It's based on dealing with them over many years with many communications with them in one form or another.  I do have an idea on how their corporate systems work, what they like, and what makes them skittish.
 
Yes, I know the OP was talking about doing his own pulling, but can we say for 100% that AMEX doesn't have get some sort of feedback from the FICO model even on soft inquiries?  We don't know exactly what relationship AMEX has with the CRA's.  There are many business relationships in the credit game, and there is a two way street here.  Both the CRA's and credit provider's have needs.  It may not be the exact number of soft inquiries, but there may be some other indicator that is provided that does not run afoul of the law.   


Message Edited by Watchmann on 07-29-2008 10:06 PM




Ahh, I'm not dismissing your history with them - I wish I'd had an account even, uh, 1/10 of that time. And I agree with you... that's what I'm trying to say, it sounds more and more like they really ARE (or at least, might be) basing something on soft inquiries that most of us had been led to believe had no bearing on anything credit-wise...

... and if they are doing that, and if it's legal, well... I can't say I can ENTIRELY blame them. I can imagine some sort of thought behind it that anyone who's into checking their credit reports all the time might also be into doing what they can to make their scores as good as they can... and therefore that their scores might tend to run whatever-percentage higher than someone who's really pretty much identical as a credit risk but isn't savvy as to how to 'play the FICO game'. Maybe if they know that you're the kind to tweak their credit before apping for anything, they think they shouldn't be giving you the 'benefit of the doubt' that they might with people who app at random times if you're a bit 'borderline', because chances are you've chosen to app when your scores etc are at their peak, and as good as they're going to get right now. Whereas with someone who never gives a thought to their credit, they might think 'borderline, but who knows, tomorrow that score might have gone up 30 points!'...

Ahhh, I know what I'm trying to say - and it's definitely not that anyone should be punished in any way for (like me!) trying to make their credit profile as good as they can... just that I can see why CCCs etc, when faced with losses everywhere they turn, try to differentiate between those customers who are going to have a consistently good credit profile pretty much regardless of whatever little tweaks they might make here and there, and those who might be seen as putting on their best face to impress the nice lenders.

Yeah. I'm rambling. But like I said, I know what I mean... I'm probably not making much sense, though!

Either way, I think the reasons given to the OP for the CLI decline sound... a bit disingenuous, bordering on dishonest, from the information given. AmEx should say what they mean. There's a lot of people out there who just want to do the 'right' thing credit-wise, for right or for wrong, and would happily do whatever their lender asks of them if they'd just make it clear! (And yeah, yeah, I can see why they wouldn't WANT to make it clear... they just want you to be the perfect borrower/consumer without any prompting!)

Message Edited by fevmlo on 07-29-2008 11:31 PM
EQ: 723 / TU: 760 (August 2009)
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cheddar
Posts: 6,794
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Re: Confused and Ticked Off! at Amex

Now, isn't this interesting?
 
Look at the first two reasons in Uncle_Money's decline letter:
 
 
What's the difference between those two reasons?  This just gets weirder and weirder.
 
----------------------------
App free since 7/11/08.
TU 744 / EX 710 / EQ 694 (Starting to slip. :smileysurprised: )

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