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Senior Contributor
Walt_K
Posts: 3,065
Registered: ‎11-02-2009
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent


Cleanmachine wrote:

I understand that the Federal Judge's Order was to allow the Merchant to charge the fee. The Merchant has the option.

 

What would be interesting, those States that current will not allow the Merchant to charge a fee, would the Federal Judge's

decision over rule the State law???

 

Would this also apply to those credit card issuers who do not allow the fee????

 

Interesting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 


No.  The judge is just approving a settlement between the parties.  There are no issues of any kind of preemption of state law involved.


Starting Score: ~500 (12/01/2008)
Current Score: EQ 681 (04/05/13); TU 98 728 (01/06/12), TU 08? 760 (provided by Barclay 1/2/14), TU 04 728 (lender pull 01/12/12); EX 742 (lender pull 01/12/12)
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Valued Contributor
mxp114
Posts: 1,362
Registered: ‎09-01-2011
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent


Cleanmachine wrote:

I understand that the Federal Judge's Order was to allow the Merchant to charge the fee. The Merchant has the option.

 

What would be interesting, those States that current will not allow the Merchant to charge a fee, would the Federal Judge's

decision over rule the State law???

 

Would this also apply to those credit card issuers who do not allow the fee????

 

Interesting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 



Judiciary can only strike down laws that are unconstitutional and prohibiting a merchant fee is absolutely allowed by the constitution, thus the state laws will stand.

Senior Contributor
Walt_K
Posts: 3,065
Registered: ‎11-02-2009
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent

[ Edited ]

mxp114 wrote:

Cleanmachine wrote:

I understand that the Federal Judge's Order was to allow the Merchant to charge the fee. The Merchant has the option.

 

What would be interesting, those States that current will not allow the Merchant to charge a fee, would the Federal Judge's

decision over rule the State law???

 

Would this also apply to those credit card issuers who do not allow the fee????

 

Interesting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 



Judiciary can only strike down laws that are unconstitutional and prohibiting a merchant fee is absolutely allowed by the constitution, thus the state laws will stand.


Well, that's not entirely accurate.  Federal law can preempt state law.  So there are some state laws that are not in and of themselves unconstitutional, but may nevertheless be impermissible in view of conflicting federal law. 

 

But that's not at issue here.  The judge isn't doing anything other than approving a settlement agreement between the parties.  He's not passing on the state laws at all.

 

ETA: I suppose that a law that is preempted could be said to be unconstitutional because the State is acting in an area where authority is reserved to the Federal Government, ultimately by virtue of the Constitution.  So perhaps no disagreement between mxp and I.  But still, this really has nothing to do with the court passing on state law. 


Starting Score: ~500 (12/01/2008)
Current Score: EQ 681 (04/05/13); TU 98 728 (01/06/12), TU 08? 760 (provided by Barclay 1/2/14), TU 04 728 (lender pull 01/12/12); EX 742 (lender pull 01/12/12)
Goal Score: 720


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Valued Contributor
mxp114
Posts: 1,362
Registered: ‎09-01-2011
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent

[ Edited ]

Walt_K wrote:

mxp114 wrote:

Cleanmachine wrote:

I understand that the Federal Judge's Order was to allow the Merchant to charge the fee. The Merchant has the option.

 

What would be interesting, those States that current will not allow the Merchant to charge a fee, would the Federal Judge's

decision over rule the State law???

 

Would this also apply to those credit card issuers who do not allow the fee????

 

Interesting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 



Judiciary can only strike down laws that are unconstitutional and prohibiting a merchant fee is absolutely allowed by the constitution, thus the state laws will stand.


Well, that's not entirely accurate.  Federal law can preempt state law.  So there are some state laws that are not in and of themselves unconstitutional, but may nevertheless be impermissible in view of conflicting federal law. 

 

But that's not at issue here.  The judge isn't doing anything other than approving a settlement agreement between the parties.  He's not passing on the state laws at all.

 

ETA: I suppose that a law that is preempted could be said to be unconstitutional because the State is acting in an area where authority is reserved to the Federal Government, ultimately by virtue of the Constitution.  So perhaps no disagreement between mxp and I.  But still, this really has nothing to do with the court passing on state law. 


Yes if a state law conflicts with a federal law, then the federal law prevails. The only way the NY anti-surcharge law could be reversed is if congress enacts federal legislation permitting fees, the state legislators repeal the law, or the NY Court of Appeals, a federal court or SCOTUS declares the law unconstititional.

 

I don't think a state law that is preempted is unconstitutional. The state isn't always necessarily acting in an area reserved for the feds, it could be that the duly enacted state law simply conflicts with a federal statute. A law is only unconstititional if it conflicts with the constitution.

Established Contributor
dodgeball
Posts: 761
Registered: ‎10-16-2007
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent

We presume that Federal Law trumps State law. But we know damn well most states will enact legislation and enforce that legislation in there state untill a federal court has a cease and assist to the state

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Regular Contributor
creditballer
Posts: 158
Registered: ‎08-28-2007
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent

Glad i'm in California! 




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Valued Contributor
thom02099
Posts: 1,326
Registered: ‎08-30-2011
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent


mxp114 wrote:

Walt_K wrote:

mxp114 wrote:

Cleanmachine wrote:

I understand that the Federal Judge's Order was to allow the Merchant to charge the fee. The Merchant has the option.

 

What would be interesting, those States that current will not allow the Merchant to charge a fee, would the Federal Judge's

decision over rule the State law???

 

Would this also apply to those credit card issuers who do not allow the fee????

 

Interesting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 



Judiciary can only strike down laws that are unconstitutional and prohibiting a merchant fee is absolutely allowed by the constitution, thus the state laws will stand.


Well, that's not entirely accurate.  Federal law can preempt state law.  So there are some state laws that are not in and of themselves unconstitutional, but may nevertheless be impermissible in view of conflicting federal law. 

 

But that's not at issue here.  The judge isn't doing anything other than approving a settlement agreement between the parties.  He's not passing on the state laws at all.

 

ETA: I suppose that a law that is preempted could be said to be unconstitutional because the State is acting in an area where authority is reserved to the Federal Government, ultimately by virtue of the Constitution.  So perhaps no disagreement between mxp and I.  But still, this really has nothing to do with the court passing on state law. 


Yes if a state law conflicts with a federal law, then the federal law prevails. The only way the NY anti-surcharge law could be reversed is if congress enacts federal legislation permitting fees, the state legislators repeal the law, or the NY Court of Appeals, a federal court or SCOTUS declares the law unconstititional.

 

I don't think a state law that is preempted is unconstitutional. The state isn't always necessarily acting in an area reserved for the feds, it could be that the duly enacted state law simply conflicts with a federal statute. A law is only unconstititional if it conflicts with the constitution.


Not always.  Like anything with the law, there are always grey areas.  Recently, Colorado legalised the posession and use of less than 1oz of Marijuana.  That would conflict with existing Federal law.  But there is no challenge to the Colorado law.  Same thing with same-sex marriage.  DOMA defines marriage as between a man and a woman, and yet in 2012 4 more states approved same-sex marriage by action of the voters.  That could be construed as a conflict with Federal law.  So Federal law does not always preempt State law. 

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Frequent Contributor
Dadaluma83
Posts: 364
Registered: ‎08-23-2011
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent

Does anyone know of any place that has started charging the fee? So far so good for me, only concern is my landlord. The only way to pay rent is in person at the office by credit or debit card. If they charge a credit card fee I would have to start looking into a prepaid debit card, get the one where I can use it fee-free hopefully. I refuse to ever get a debit card linked to my checking account due to the fact if my number is ever stolen all my money is wiped out.

 

Otherwise any other business where I have a choice on who to patronize it won't be anyone charging a fee for credit cards.

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Senior Contributor
john398
Posts: 3,521
Registered: ‎01-19-2009
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent

Glad I live in Texas, however theres a liquor store here that gives a discount for cash/debit card use, isn't that like charging a fee for credit?

Valued Contributor
thom02099
Posts: 1,326
Registered: ‎08-30-2011
0

Re: Credit card users surcharge of up to 4 percent


john398 wrote:

Glad I live in Texas, however theres a liquor store here that gives a discount for cash/debit card use, isn't that like charging a fee for credit?


Short answer...No.  Giving a discount for cash is not the same as using a credit card and being charged a fee.  Merchants typically build in to the price of merchandise an amount to account for the swipe fee, so it's already there whenever you buy something and pay with a credit card.  Giving a discount for cash is basically the same as saying "buy one/get one" at a reduced cost;  it's an enticement to purchase using cash, as "bogo" is an enticement to purchase more than one item at a discounted price.

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