DO NOT apply for Anything with CHASE

[Anonymous]

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@CreditCuriousity wrote:

Still find alot of value to this post... I am curios how Chse is going to treat customers this coming year/years... I honestly believe her/him from this post and you if you have done any research this isn't uncommon for Chase to do... Yes there are two sides to every story, but by no means was this person over extended w/regards to credit.

As stated many times diversify and never have all your eggs in one basket.. If a credit crunch comes again or when it comes again, people that have all their eggs with chase or any bank for that matter will not be so happy then as they will be in the same boat.  Just my 2 cents..   

Also if I was the OP and after 35-40 days after the re-look at your profile and decdied to possibly re-open your lines of credit I personally would telll then to sit on a stick and twirl in circles as they will be watching you more closely then ever as one of the other normal posters that post here that has alot of credit lines with chase that constantly get closed and re-opened time after time.  That is just no fun

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LOL - Based on the email I received from my banker, he seems to think they will reopen the cards in 30 - 45 days - not sure why, I have posed that question and will report his response because I find it all preposterous and am past dwelling on it and fretting over it; but if that is in fact the case, I will be hard pressed to not "telll then to sit on a stick and twirl in circles".  

As to one posters comment about how they make $$ - that makes sense.  I earned A LOT of reward points on my Ink Cards and they didn't earn any interest and I am pretty sure the Slate card was 0% interest so not sure they made money from me other then what they made swiping fees etc ... ? ..... I wish they had just said that - I would have been happier to share a little love their way with that - no problem.  God forbid honesty be an actual policy 

I am sad that my love affair with Chase came to a screaching halt the way it did - I just didn't see it coming!  It wasn't the credit so much as how it was handled and why really - just all so wrong and off and weird .... but anyway 2015 - on to better and new things!

[Anonymous]

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@bz386 wrote:

There is a very long thread over on Flyertalk with similar stories of account closures by Chase. In most of the cases there it was due to manufactured spending or perk (bonus) abuse. A couple of the cases described there were about risky behavior on the customers checking account (for example depositing money orders into the checking account) and when the checking account was axed, the credit cards went too. Now if the OPs story is true, this would be the first case where a customer has not shown any risky behavior and his account was still closed down. Only Chase knows what the actual reason was, because based on the OPs description their reasoning given to him is bull. Does that mean that everyone should stop applying for Chase credit cards? Of course not. Just be aware that things like this can an do happen and don't bet your entire livelihood on Chase's good graces.

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I didn't even know what manufactured spending was until someone here explained it so that for sure was not the issue and my actual accounts have not been closed just the credit cards.  At this point, all I can chalk it up to is they weren't making enough money off my credit card accounts, saw I had other available credit and didn't see a need to keep me on their credit list - beyond that, I can't come up with anything.  I am a responsible user, spender, payer, etc .... I don't dabble or have time to deal with risky behavior on my credit cards.  I spend my days placing orders and running business - it really isn't any more complicated then that.  

If people are offended by the title - SORRY - I am offended by Chases actions and at the time of the original post, was deeply offended.  Chase was my preferred bank (for years) and I still can't believe things went this way but literally when you go in the branch and nothing is personalized anymore and the bankers can't do anything to help and your actual business and $$ means nothing, its time to let other people know and to move on.  Do I expect everyone that reads this post to immediately shut down everything they do with Chase - NO, of course not, but have your guard up a little more and be aware that I am not the only one that this has happened to and if you don't like this sort of treatment, let them know by taking your business elsewhere.  The almighty dollar does have some value and while I am only one person, if each person they do this to has a reaction, sooner or later, they will start to feel the repercussions and remember that customer service DOES mean something and is valuable to those putting their hard earned dollars in their banks.  So they may not have made a zillion dollars on the credit cards they gave me - how much $$ did they make on the multitude of other accounts I had with them that they have now lost? ..... I wonder if that fits into the algorithm and if it was worth it?  

If I was "costing" them money with their bonuses - which I have already gotten, so they are out that regardless - then either don't offer them or come up with a new business model that doesn't somehow punish your clients .... I'm at fault because I pay in full and don't allow them to earn a bunch of interest?  ..... seemingly so.  I'm guessing that is why they recently ditched the Ink Bold Card from their line up - not enough earnings .... 

[Anonymous]

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@cashnocredit wrote:

OP: It's a very odd situation you have described. As a CPC myself I'm interested in understanding more about what banking situation initiated these events. Banks these daus don't make personal decisions. It's all numbers. Especially the large ones. However, credit operations are handled quite apart from regular banking as is evidenced by them nnot closing your other accounts. If they thought you were a fraud risk they would close everything.

Questions:

1. You have 3 C Corps. Your income would be either salary from one, or more, of them combined with dividends should the corporation(s) declare them.  Could you provide some detail as to how this income shows up in your Chase accounts? As an aside, it is really quite rare for an individual to have multiple C Corps, or even one. They are great for flexibility when growth demands investment from others but as wholly owned entities they have tax disadvantages compared to LLCs or S Corps.

Yes all 3 C Corps - 2 converting to S Corps this year.  One too large to do so and must remain a C Corp.  I receive Salary from 1, and Dividend from the other 2 - all declared properly.  

2. Were your Chase biz cards issued attached to the corporations? I assume all your biz cards had PGs.  Chase Biz cards were attached to one Corporation that I PG'd.

3. You obviously run a very large part of your business expenses through CCs. Do the business charges make sense as actually business related and persoanl card charges look like personal epenses?

The charges on really any card each month can be attributed to 1 of about 6 manufacturers and then the various monthly expenses that autodraft like Quickbooks and various office type expenses - beyond that - literally nothing.  

I have also, many years ago, had a C Corp though I was only paid as an employee and had a Visa corporate card along with about 20 others. What you describe is very anomolous I do know business owners are generally (and correctly) seen as at much higher risk than regular employees.  It isn't as if these are new businesses or anything.  There are years of tax returns and bank statements and merchant statements etc .... 

It could be something very simple such as being in a high risk category as a businessman and having very large amounts, well in excess of your stated income, running though your CCs  Also, automated systems do not like to see multiple payments within a month on cards. Especially if they are very large and exceed your CLs. This can raise your risk score even if you never miss a payment.  If it was high risk they don't offer you merchant processing or they want a deposit and things.  This is all very basic retail sales.  In the beginning I made more multiple payments and probably used the card a bit more, it tapered off with the 2 business cards a little in October and that is what they actually seemed to not like ....?  Maybe they saw me switching use over to my NFCU and didn't see a use for me to have their cards ....?  I made a point to place an order on the Chase cards each month thereafter but it was less activity - not more.  Did that upset them?

Also, when you run really large amounts through cards and carry any balance it's an indication your business is somewhat cash contrained. In my C Corp we never carried a CC balance.  I never carry a balance - I always pay in full.  Never paid any interest - something they potentially didn't care for.

So yes, it's surprising but not totally nuts. Banks have a lot of automated systems and they make decisions based on statistical correlations with historical profit/loss experiences.

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[andre181]

I'm not a fan of Chase.

When they took over my WaMu account, they jacked my APR from 12.99 to 24.24 and cut my CL in half. No reason at all.

I tried for 2 years, and they never lowered the APR, despite getting numerous preapprovals from Chase for a Freedome with APRs in the neighborhood of 11-13%. 

I gave up and closed that card. 

[cashnocredit]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@cashnocredit wrote:

OP: It's a very odd situation you have described. As a CPC myself I'm interested in understanding more about what banking situation initiated these events. Banks these daus don't make personal decisions. It's all numbers. Especially the large ones. However, credit operations are handled quite apart from regular banking as is evidenced by them nnot closing your other accounts. If they thought you were a fraud risk they would close everything.

Questions:

1. You have 3 C Corps. Your income would be either salary from one, or more, of them combined with dividends should the corporation(s) declare them.  Could you provide some detail as to how this income shows up in your Chase accounts? As an aside, it is really quite rare for an individual to have multiple C Corps, or even one. They are great for flexibility when growth demands investment from others but as wholly owned entities they have tax disadvantages compared to LLCs or S Corps.

Yes all 3 C Corps - 2 converting to S Corps this year.  One too large to do so and must remain a C Corp.  I receive Salary from 1, and Dividend from the other 2 - all declared properly.  

2. Were your Chase biz cards issued attached to the corporations? I assume all your biz cards had PGs.  Chase Biz cards were attached to one Corporation that I PG'd.

3. You obviously run a very large part of your business expenses through CCs. Do the business charges make sense as actually business related and persoanl card charges look like personal epenses?

The charges on really any card each month can be attributed to 1 of about 6 manufacturers and then the various monthly expenses that autodraft like Quickbooks and various office type expenses - beyond that - literally nothing.  

I have also, many years ago, had a C Corp though I was only paid as an employee and had a Visa corporate card along with about 20 others. What you describe is very anomolous I do know business owners are generally (and correctly) seen as at much higher risk than regular employees.  It isn't as if these are new businesses or anything.  There are years of tax returns and bank statements and merchant statements etc .... 

It could be something very simple such as being in a high risk category as a businessman and having very large amounts, well in excess of your stated income, running though your CCs  Also, automated systems do not like to see multiple payments within a month on cards. Especially if they are very large and exceed your CLs. This can raise your risk score even if you never miss a payment.  If it was high risk they don't offer you merchant processing or they want a deposit and things.  This is all very basic retail sales.  In the beginning I made more multiple payments and probably used the card a bit more, it tapered off with the 2 business cards a little in October and that is what they actually seemed to not like ....?  Maybe they saw me switching use over to my NFCU and didn't see a use for me to have their cards ....?  I made a point to place an order on the Chase cards each month thereafter but it was less activity - not more.  Did that upset them?

Also, when you run really large amounts through cards and carry any balance it's an indication your business is somewhat cash contrained. In my C Corp we never carried a CC balance.  I never carry a balance - I always pay in full.  Never paid any interest - something they potentially didn't care for.

So yes, it's surprising but not totally nuts. Banks have a lot of automated systems and they make decisions based on statistical correlations with historical profit/loss experiences.

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Thanks for the details. I was under the impression you occasionally carried a balance based on this

I am sick of Corporate banks treating customers this way, I have done NOTHING but pay my bills on time and always way more then owed and most often paid in full so what gives?

So it probably comes down to being s statistical outlier. Banks, large banks especially, view their credit card portfolio in terms of a typical, consumer, patterns. You aren't typical.  If they thought you are a fraud risk or didn't like your business for some reason they would close all your banking accounts. So it's just an artifact of the way the credit card division's automation processes views you in light of the mass of other CC holders. Most likely it is just the discrepency between your stated income and the large amounts going through CCs. Human overrides are less and less frequent in the banking industry and are discouraged by the banking compliance division. Again, this is really a charateristic of the larger banks. Unfortunately, on of the traits of these kinds of banking decisions is no warning. You hit some sort of internal flag and the hammer comes down.

You definitely would be better off at a local bank where bank officers have more autonomy to make more taylored decisions.

[Anonymous]

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@cashnocredit wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@cashnocredit wrote:

OP: It's a very odd situation you have described. As a CPC myself I'm interested in understanding more about what banking situation initiated these events. Banks these daus don't make personal decisions. It's all numbers. Especially the large ones. However, credit operations are handled quite apart from regular banking as is evidenced by them nnot closing your other accounts. If they thought you were a fraud risk they would close everything.

Questions:

1. You have 3 C Corps. Your income would be either salary from one, or more, of them combined with dividends should the corporation(s) declare them.  Could you provide some detail as to how this income shows up in your Chase accounts? As an aside, it is really quite rare for an individual to have multiple C Corps, or even one. They are great for flexibility when growth demands investment from others but as wholly owned entities they have tax disadvantages compared to LLCs or S Corps.

Yes all 3 C Corps - 2 converting to S Corps this year.  One too large to do so and must remain a C Corp.  I receive Salary from 1, and Dividend from the other 2 - all declared properly.  

2. Were your Chase biz cards issued attached to the corporations? I assume all your biz cards had PGs.  Chase Biz cards were attached to one Corporation that I PG'd.

3. You obviously run a very large part of your business expenses through CCs. Do the business charges make sense as actually business related and persoanl card charges look like personal epenses?

The charges on really any card each month can be attributed to 1 of about 6 manufacturers and then the various monthly expenses that autodraft like Quickbooks and various office type expenses - beyond that - literally nothing.  

I have also, many years ago, had a C Corp though I was only paid as an employee and had a Visa corporate card along with about 20 others. What you describe is very anomolous I do know business owners are generally (and correctly) seen as at much higher risk than regular employees.  It isn't as if these are new businesses or anything.  There are years of tax returns and bank statements and merchant statements etc .... 

It could be something very simple such as being in a high risk category as a businessman and having very large amounts, well in excess of your stated income, running though your CCs  Also, automated systems do not like to see multiple payments within a month on cards. Especially if they are very large and exceed your CLs. This can raise your risk score even if you never miss a payment.  If it was high risk they don't offer you merchant processing or they want a deposit and things.  This is all very basic retail sales.  In the beginning I made more multiple payments and probably used the card a bit more, it tapered off with the 2 business cards a little in October and that is what they actually seemed to not like ....?  Maybe they saw me switching use over to my NFCU and didn't see a use for me to have their cards ....?  I made a point to place an order on the Chase cards each month thereafter but it was less activity - not more.  Did that upset them?

Also, when you run really large amounts through cards and carry any balance it's an indication your business is somewhat cash contrained. In my C Corp we never carried a CC balance.  I never carry a balance - I always pay in full.  Never paid any interest - something they potentially didn't care for.

So yes, it's surprising but not totally nuts. Banks have a lot of automated systems and they make decisions based on statistical correlations with historical profit/loss experiences.

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Thanks for the details. I was under the impression you occasionally carried a balance based on this

I am sick of Corporate banks treating customers this way, I have done NOTHING but pay my bills on time and always way more then owed and most often paid in full so what gives?

So it probably comes down to being s statistical outlier. Banks, large banks especially, view their credit card portfolio in terms of a typical, consumer, patterns. You aren't typical.  If they thought you are a fraud risk or didn't like your business for some reason they would close all your banking accounts. So it's just an artifact of the way the credit card division's automation processes views you in light of the mass of other CC holders. Most likely it is just the discrepency between your stated income and the large amounts going through CCs. Human overrides are less and less frequent in the banking industry and are discouraged by the banking compliance division. Again, this is really a charateristic of the larger banks. Unfortunately, on of the traits of these kinds of banking decisions is no warning. You hit some sort of internal flag and the hammer comes down.

You definitely would be better off at a local bank where bank officers have more autonomy to make more taylored decisions.

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Only ever on my personal cards and if was for personal shopping .... those are the only balances ever carried forward and those are generally paid off in 2 - 3 months if balance carries forward, but never on a corporate card or corporate expense.  I can see how my comment was misleading.

Agreed : "You definitely would be better off at a local bank where bank officers have more autonomy to make more taylored decisions."

[Anonymous]

I work in one of the big 4 banks and regularly deal with business accounts. We don't typically open accounts for porn/sex objects/toys type business's. You keep saying retail sales but don't say what. Is that maybe it?

[CreditCuriosity]

Meh removed...No sense starting an arguement.

[Anonymous]

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@CreditCuriousity wrote:

Meh removed...No sense starting an arguement.

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I just had wine and I am ready to battle.. Stir the pot already (joking)

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I work in one of the big 4 banks and regularly deal with business accounts. We don't typically open accounts for porn/sex objects/toys type business's. You keep saying retail sales but don't say what. Is that maybe it?

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LOL - NO 

Okay - without being too personal, commercial type equipment like you would find in a grocery store, restaurant, convenient store, etc.  You guys are so funny with the speculation (I should have let it keep going for amusement but in order to keep it real.....).  When you get right to it, I'm sure you will find it quite boring and nothing short of anything but risky.  Most banks finance their customers for the equipment - that's like a whole other industry.  We work with a finance company and all ourselves with 100% upfront terms - risk is just not the factor here.