Diners Club Elite..seems like a great card for travelers with high spend

[longtimelurker]

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@red259 wrote:

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@red259 wrote:

DC card isn't the greatest rewards program, but it may be a good fit for some people. The bonus cat of drug stores will certainly appeal to a certain segment and the lounge access is a nice perk. If you use starpoints for airfare this card can be of better value than even the SPG card for spend in the bonus categories. For example if your purchasing in bonus categories (gas, grocery, drug stores) your earning 1.8 Starpoints per dollar, which becomes 2.25 miles per dollar when transferring Starpoints to miles in increments of 20,000. With the SPG card your earning only one point per dollar spent, unless your spending at SPG properties. For heavy spenders in some of those categories you may come out ahead of other cards, due to the cap imposed upon cats in on other cards. There is also rumors that the transfer of DC points to SW airlines counts towards the companion pass. Not really beneficial to me because I don't fly southwest, but for those who do it could be a great perk. If you spend heavily each year in the category spend then the card can be worthwhile or if you value lounge access and your primary airport has a lounge that is covered.

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Yes, for that certain segment it is the Amex Blue Cash equivalent for Travel rewards: lower multiplier and much higher fee, but more valuable rewards and added perks.

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How flexible DC will be with large amounts of drug store spend remains to be seen. I'm sure the usual suspects will MS heavily on the card and we will know soon if they crack down. 

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Remember it's not just drug store, supermarkets too.  With Vanilla difficulties at Walmart, a lot of the spend has moved to supermarkets.

But yes in general, we don't know how sensitive they will be.    And with a $300 card, unless they pro-rate when they cancel, it's expensive to get shutdown!

[red259]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@red259 wrote:

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@red259 wrote:

DC card isn't the greatest rewards program, but it may be a good fit for some people. The bonus cat of drug stores will certainly appeal to a certain segment and the lounge access is a nice perk. If you use starpoints for airfare this card can be of better value than even the SPG card for spend in the bonus categories. For example if your purchasing in bonus categories (gas, grocery, drug stores) your earning 1.8 Starpoints per dollar, which becomes 2.25 miles per dollar when transferring Starpoints to miles in increments of 20,000. With the SPG card your earning only one point per dollar spent, unless your spending at SPG properties. For heavy spenders in some of those categories you may come out ahead of other cards, due to the cap imposed upon cats in on other cards. There is also rumors that the transfer of DC points to SW airlines counts towards the companion pass. Not really beneficial to me because I don't fly southwest, but for those who do it could be a great perk. If you spend heavily each year in the category spend then the card can be worthwhile or if you value lounge access and your primary airport has a lounge that is covered.

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Yes, for that certain segment it is the Amex Blue Cash equivalent for Travel rewards: lower multiplier and much higher fee, but more valuable rewards and added perks.

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How flexible DC will be with large amounts of drug store spend remains to be seen. I'm sure the usual suspects will MS heavily on the card and we will know soon if they crack down. 

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Remember it's not just drug store, supermarkets too.  With Vanilla difficulties at Walmart, a lot of the spend has moved to supermarkets.

But yes in general, we don't know how sensitive they will be.    And with a $300 card, unless they pro-rate when they cancel, it's expensive to get shutdown!

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I don't have any supermarkets that offer any viable options.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it is... I got my PIN today, it is a Chip and Pin, wonderful card for Europe

[yfan]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Yes, it is... I got my PIN today, it is a Chip and Pin, wonderful card for Europe

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You know, I was recently in Europe, and Chip and Signature is accepted everywhere I was (London, Berlin, Munich, Stockholm) - and even the EMV-less cards have very high acceptance rates. The only places I couldn't use my Capital One QS (which don't have EMV yet) was at train and metro stations, and one particular store employee who wouldn't even let me try despite the fact that I could tell the machine was capable of reading magnetic stripes.

And there was not a single place where a Chip-and-signature card (I used my Citi Dividend where I had to) wasn't accepted, including public transit stations. The truth is, much like swiping cards at Bart stations in California, the cards are authorized to allow a up to a certain amount without obtaining a signature. The transactions went through just fine and my tickets printed as usual.

Chip and pin is not something special and shouldn't be considered a unique card benefit. It may make us feel good but it offers virtually no benefit above and beyond chip-and-signature.

[longtimelurker]

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@yfan wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Yes, it is... I got my PIN today, it is a Chip and Pin, wonderful card for Europe

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You know, I was recently in Europe, and Chip and Signature is accepted everywhere I was (London, Berlin, Munich, Stockholm) - and even the EMV-less cards have very high acceptance rates. The only places I couldn't use my Capital One QS (which don't have EMV yet) was at train and metro stations, and one particular store employee who wouldn't even let me try despite the fact that I could tell the machine was capable of reading magnetic stripes.

And there was not a single place where a Chip-and-signature card (I used my Citi Dividend where I had to) wasn't accepted, including public transit stations. The truth is, much like swiping cards at Bart stations in California, the cards are authorized to allow a up to a certain amount without obtaining a signature. The transactions went through just fine and my tickets printed as usual.

Chip and pin is not something special and shouldn't be considered a unique card benefit. It may make us feel good but it offers virtually no benefit above and beyond chip-and-signature.

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Until it does!   It's somewhat rare, but you can read all the stories of unattended gas stations and toll booths where not having it was really bad, and less so, buying tickets from automated machines (where ticket price was above the threshold) where the user had to join much longer lines to buy from a clerk.

So if you are staying in a major tourist city and have time for such delays fine, but there are times where it really does matter.   But for most I agree it shouldn't be the only criterion, but it is not of no benefit!

[red259]

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@yfan wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Yes, it is... I got my PIN today, it is a Chip and Pin, wonderful card for Europe

---

You know, I was recently in Europe, and Chip and Signature is accepted everywhere I was (London, Berlin, Munich, Stockholm) - and even the EMV-less cards have very high acceptance rates. The only places I couldn't use my Capital One QS (which don't have EMV yet) was at train and metro stations, and one particular store employee who wouldn't even let me try despite the fact that I could tell the machine was capable of reading magnetic stripes.

And there was not a single place where a Chip-and-signature card (I used my Citi Dividend where I had to) wasn't accepted, including public transit stations. The truth is, much like swiping cards at Bart stations in California, the cards are authorized to allow a up to a certain amount without obtaining a signature. The transactions went through just fine and my tickets printed as usual.

Chip and pin is not something special and shouldn't be considered a unique card benefit. It may make us feel good but it offers virtually no benefit above and beyond chip-and-signature.

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This is extremely short-sighted thinking. It may be the case now that it is not a huge benefit, but you better believe things will be changing going forward with all the data breaches. I already hear the media quacking about chip and pin and asking why we don't have it everywhere yet. It should not be a major factor when looking at a card, but it does have a benefit and that benefit will only grow with time. 

[yfan]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

Until it does!   It's somewhat rare, but you can read all the stories of unattended gas stations and toll booths where not having it was really bad, and less so, buying tickets from automated machines (where ticket price was above the threshold) where the user had to join much longer lines to buy from a clerk.

So if you are staying in a major tourist city and have time for such delays fine, but there are times where it really does matter.   But for most I agree it shouldn't be the only criterion, but it is not of no benefit!

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I do read those stories, but they did not seem to be true in my case. Gas stations may be an exception - or it may be that no one has called EMV about those gas stations being non-compliant with EMV requirements - which include being able to process Chip and Signature cards. But the point is that when you are in a foreign country, you always run the risk of running into some inconveniences. That is why we carry cash, or find alternatives. Heck, the inconvenience doesn't even have to be monetary. You could end up at a machine the instructions above which you cannot read - because you don't speak the language! Unless the entire tour is guided and sheltered - in which case your card type won't matter anyway - it's not possible to take a foreign trip and never have to ask a local for some kind of assistance.

There's also a reason to prefer Chip and Signature over Chip and PIN - convenience. I don't like remembering a million PINs in my head - Bank A's ATM PIN, Bank B's ATM PIN, and PINs for all the credit cards. You could use the same PIN for the all cards, but that undermines the argument about security - since you would undoubtedly use the same signature for all cards!

[yfan]

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@red259 wrote:

This is extremely short-sighted thinking. It may be the case now that it is not a huge benefit, but you better believe things will be changing going forward with all the data breaches. I already hear the media quacking about chip and pin and asking why we don't have it everywhere yet. It should not be a major factor when looking at a card, but it does have a benefit and that benefit will only grow with time. 

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No. First of all, if you ask most of these media types, the wouldn't be able to tell you why they think Chip and PIN is more secure than Chip and Signature. Just because they're on TV doesn't mean you should take them seriously. Second, all Chip and PIN terminals are required by the EMV agreement to be able to process Chip and Signature transactions (and vice versa) - so the adoption of Chip and PIN technology at an even higher rate will not do anything to differentiate it from Chip and Signature. Chip and Signature cards have the exact same level of security in terms of generating one-time transaction codes and stolen information not being of any use to the thief. There is nothing special about Chip and PIN there.

As I just said, there is also an advantage to Chip and Signature - convenience. I don't want to remember 9 different PINs. I am more confident in the fact that my signature is difficult to forge (and therefore, it's easy for me to prove when a signature isn't mine in case of a fraudulant transaction - not so easy if someone somehow got a hold of my PIN).

Where this is ultimately all headed is contactless payments. At some point - not soon, but at some point - the specifc technology of your card will become irrelevant. You will authenticate on your phone/device, pick a card on your device, and pay with a tap using Google Wallet or Apple Pay.

[mongstradamus]

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@yfan wrote:

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@red259 wrote:

This is extremely short-sighted thinking. It may be the case now that it is not a huge benefit, but you better believe things will be changing going forward with all the data breaches. I already hear the media quacking about chip and pin and asking why we don't have it everywhere yet. It should not be a major factor when looking at a card, but it does have a benefit and that benefit will only grow with time. 

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No. First of all, if you ask most of these media types, the wouldn't be able to tell you why they think Chip and PIN is more secure than Chip and Signature. Just because they're on TV doesn't mean you should take them seriously. Second, all Chip and PIN terminals are required by the EMV agreement to be able to process Chip and Signature transactions (and vice versa) - so the adoption of Chip and PIN technology at an even higher rate will not do anything to differentiate it from Chip and Signature. Chip and Signature cards have the exact same level of security in terms of generating one-time transaction codes and stolen information not being of any use to the thief. There is nothing special about Chip and PIN there.

As I just said, there is also an advantage to Chip and Signature - convenience. I don't want to remember 9 different PINs. I am more confident in the fact that my signature is difficult to forge (and therefore, it's easy for me to prove when a signature isn't mine in case of a fraudulant transaction - not so easy if someone somehow got a hold of my PIN).

Where this is ultimately all headed is contactless payments. At some point - not soon, but at some point - the specifc technology of your card will become irrelevant. You will authenticate on your phone/device, pick a card on your device, and pay with a tap using Google Wallet or Apple Pay.

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The thing with apple pay and google wallet i am wondering if you still will be able to get all the rewards still. Google wallet i don't think you can add funds via cc while still getting rewards ?
 

[lg8302ch]

If the card is really chip & pin (with default to pin)  and if it works for supermarkets outside the US I will definitely try to get the Elite version in December but I have doubts it is chip & pin and will join all the other US cards with chip & pin only as alternate and default is still chip & signature... this is a hassle if your are used to cards with chip & pin for years in Europe not only for yourself but also for merchants.. signing, verify signature...and due to lousy handwriting at the stores show ID, etc... while payment with pin is fast and easy !  I know in the US you can put xx as signature and nobody ever looks at it but in Europe signatures on the back of the cards are verified carefully and with pin you can do it yourself ..no need for the teller to acutally look at your card or signature and eventually ask for ID if your writing is a bit off.  I hate the chip & signature cards !