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Revelate
Posts: 9,738
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: Does a hard pull lower credit score a lot?

[ Edited ]

android01 wrote:

The last hard pull I had was last September after an evening of drapping for HP CLI's.  I had two inq's on EQ and my score dropped by 20 points.  I've read that the effect of new inq's or new accounts can depend on FICO's algorithmic "bucketing".   I'm guessing that the bucket I'm in doesn't have too many people getting inq's and new accounts, hence the dramatic score drop.   


Grin, being gold plated does have some drawbacks albeit none worth mentioning in my opinion.

 

OP: While non-auto, non-mortgage, non-SL (I think) inquiries are counted individually, the penalty is graded on a step function.  Namely, not every additional inquiry is going to damage your score.  As a silly example to illustrate this, note this may not be entirely accurate:

 

0 -> 1 inquiry = score drop

1 -> 2 inquiries = no change

2 -> 3 inquiries = score drop

3 -> 4 inquiries = no change

4 -> 5 inquiries = no change

5 -> 6 inquiries = score drop

 

Again that's not exact but anecdotally that appears to be how they're graded.  Also convention wisdomal is when you're beyond 8 inquiries or so, additional ones are laughably trivial as far as score impact goes; however, underwriting for any given lender may have a different opinion.  Also the higher your score is vis a vis Android, the more penalty any negative is going to be... in my case, with a mixed file of positive and negative history it's a much smaller factor.

Starting Score: EQ 561, TU 567, EX 599* (12/30/11, EX lender pull 12/29/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 673, EQ 8 707, TU 720, EX 702* (09/02/14, EX older)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ '04 (01/01/15)


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RSCo
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Re: Does a hard pull lower credit score a lot?


BlueHusky wrote:

Looking for an auto loan, and I want to go ahead and apply for a loan so I know what price range to look in based on interest, etc. The issue is, I also might want to try to take advantage of dealer financing later, but if I apply now I will have a HP when I go to the dealer. How much will it lower me? My Wal-mart FICO is 770, my Credit Karma FAKO is 764 and says that I have a utilization of 3%, 100% on time payments, and 4 hard credit inquiries in the last 2 years.


Not to worry so much...  Both Mortgages and Auto Financing HP are grouped together and counted as one hard pull for their respective category if they are done within a few days of one another. So, if 2 or 3 different auto financing pulls take place within days of each other, it's only counted as 1 hard pull. This is to accommodate people who shop around.  Have fun. 

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scenery_guy
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Re: Does a hard pull lower credit score a lot?


BlueHusky wrote:

Looking for an auto loan, and I want to go ahead and apply for a loan so I know what price range to look in based on interest, etc. The issue is, I also might want to try to take advantage of dealer financing later, but if I apply now I will have a HP when I go to the dealer. How much will it lower me? My Wal-mart FICO is 770, my Credit Karma FAKO is 764 and says that I have a utilization of 3%, 100% on time payments, and 4 hard credit inquiries in the last 2 years.


I found out the hard way that each loan you apply for (to check if they will lend or get interest rate) results in a HP that you will be carrying for the next 2 years. App wisely. As others have pointed out if all pulls reflect "auto loan" most lenders seem to be understanding that you were auto shopping - but they are still HP on record and they can add up quickly. I checked 4 lenders before opting for dealer financing so those 5 pulls haunt me. I regret not just asking the dealer to check their financing FIRST. 

 

I had to explain this to AMEX and Chase when apping for credit cards but not getting instant approval. They seemed fine with it once I explained that those 5 pulls were auto related (and they could clearly see they were all auto lenders and also see my auto loan details). 

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scenery_guy
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Re: Does a hard pull lower credit score a lot?


RSCo wrote:

BlueHusky wrote:

Looking for an auto loan, and I want to go ahead and apply for a loan so I know what price range to look in based on interest, etc. The issue is, I also might want to try to take advantage of dealer financing later, but if I apply now I will have a HP when I go to the dealer. How much will it lower me? My Wal-mart FICO is 770, my Credit Karma FAKO is 764 and says that I have a utilization of 3%, 100% on time payments, and 4 hard credit inquiries in the last 2 years.


Not to worry so much...  Both Mortgages and Auto Financing HP are grouped together and counted as one hard pull for their respective category if they are done within a few days of one another. So, if 2 or 3 different auto financing pulls take place within days of each other, it's only counted as 1 hard pull. This is to accommodate people who shop around.  Have fun. 


This is not true. Each application counts as a HP on your record. Other lenders might "treat" them as one "grouped pull" but the fact is they are each a HP listed on your report individually. I just looked at my Experian report that I requested to dispute something a few weeks ago and I have three auto lender inquiries all on the same day and each one is indeed separate and counts against my total HP for the past 2 years. 

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Revelate
Posts: 9,738
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: Does a hard pull lower credit score a lot?


scenery_guy wrote:

RSCo wrote:

BlueHusky wrote:

Looking for an auto loan, and I want to go ahead and apply for a loan so I know what price range to look in based on interest, etc. The issue is, I also might want to try to take advantage of dealer financing later, but if I apply now I will have a HP when I go to the dealer. How much will it lower me? My Wal-mart FICO is 770, my Credit Karma FAKO is 764 and says that I have a utilization of 3%, 100% on time payments, and 4 hard credit inquiries in the last 2 years.


Not to worry so much...  Both Mortgages and Auto Financing HP are grouped together and counted as one hard pull for their respective category if they are done within a few days of one another. So, if 2 or 3 different auto financing pulls take place within days of each other, it's only counted as 1 hard pull. This is to accommodate people who shop around.  Have fun. 


This is not true. Each application counts as a HP on your record. Other lenders might "treat" them as one "grouped pull" but the fact is they are each a HP listed on your report individually. I just looked at my Experian report that I requested to dispute something a few weeks ago and I have three auto lender inquiries all on the same day and each one is indeed separate and counts against my total HP for the past 2 years. 


They are scored as one within a certain time period; however, you're correct that they are listed individually on the credit report and do count towards total inquiries.

 

Starting Score: EQ 561, TU 567, EX 599* (12/30/11, EX lender pull 12/29/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 673, EQ 8 707, TU 720, EX 702* (09/02/14, EX older)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ '04 (01/01/15)


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scenery_guy
Posts: 936
Registered: ‎07-24-2012
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Re: Does a hard pull lower credit score a lot?


Revelate wrote:

scenery_guy wrote:

RSCo wrote:

BlueHusky wrote:

Looking for an auto loan, and I want to go ahead and apply for a loan so I know what price range to look in based on interest, etc. The issue is, I also might want to try to take advantage of dealer financing later, but if I apply now I will have a HP when I go to the dealer. How much will it lower me? My Wal-mart FICO is 770, my Credit Karma FAKO is 764 and says that I have a utilization of 3%, 100% on time payments, and 4 hard credit inquiries in the last 2 years.


Not to worry so much...  Both Mortgages and Auto Financing HP are grouped together and counted as one hard pull for their respective category if they are done within a few days of one another. So, if 2 or 3 different auto financing pulls take place within days of each other, it's only counted as 1 hard pull. This is to accommodate people who shop around.  Have fun. 


This is not true. Each application counts as a HP on your record. Other lenders might "treat" them as one "grouped pull" but the fact is they are each a HP listed on your report individually. I just looked at my Experian report that I requested to dispute something a few weeks ago and I have three auto lender inquiries all on the same day and each one is indeed separate and counts against my total HP for the past 2 years. 


They are scored as one within a certain time period; however, you're correct that they are listed individually on the credit report and do count towards total inquiries.

 


Thanks, was beginning to think I was nuts. I think the key here is for people to understand the verbiage of "scored as one" (in the calculation of your credit score) versus that they actually list as individual inquiries that all lenders see and count, and they will take 2 years to drop from your report. If your goal is to have as few inquiries as possible on your report be aware of this type situation. 


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