Empirically speaking – questioning the “Number of Inquiries” Metric

[darrylbowen1959]

Greetings Everyone -

I am a great fan of the forums and though I don't post much I do read a lot and glean a lot of useful information (go backdoor numbers!)

I've seen several posts about keeping your number in inquiries down and am frankly a little confused based upon my own Empirical Evidence. Beginning May of 2012 I started my serious road to recovery after my ex nearly bankrupted me (yes, I was complicit too, every story has two sides). Anyway, at that time I had one Credit Union Master Card which is the only account he did not ruin with a $1000 limit on it and about 3 years of history. I applied for a mortgage and was told I needed at least a second line of credit so I applied for a secured card just to have it on the books. I followed the instructions of the mortgage broker to the letter and am happy to say that in November of 2012 we closed on our brand new house. My score at the time was hovering at 620 which was the FHA limit at the time (if memory serves).

Once the mortgage (Wells Fargo) started reporting I slowly started acquiring lines of credit, my first being a Capital One Rewards Card. I must state that even though they have consistently remained very guarded about giving me any CLI (it is currently $1500) I will remain loyal to them even though there is a $39.00 annual fee. I'm a loyal guy. But the real reason for my post is that every time I took action and started applying for credit (with the exception of the Capital One) I did so in "sprees" and with very few exceptions I was instantly approved. For some reason Lowes does not want my business but home depot did.

My latest spree as you'll see below in my list was $35,000 added to my available credit, literally over a weekend. 5 separate cards, including PenFed which all indications told me would not be approved based upon my readings. In fact, it was the highest of the 5 at $10,000. This was the largest initial credit line I have ever been offered on a credit card.

So I'm just looking to the pundits here in the forums. Am I on some secret list that says "he's a good guy" (I am). My scores are all across the board now in the mid 720's. With the exception of the mortgage (208K) no debt, not even a car payment and now have a total of just over $100,000 of available credit which I earned in under 3 years and as I said, mostly in "sprees". Have I found a loophole inasmuch as when I hit so many at once they don't register quickly enough for the next creditor to notice?

I'm very proud of my recovery and regard it as something sacred! My past is my past and I bear no ill will toward my ex - he simply could not control his spending. My husband John and I on the other hand are very careful. We have lots of very nice things and don't scrimp but we weigh it all against our future goals, future needs, and current income and always keep it well below our means. I guess the bottom line is that is what the creditors have seen.

FYI - I never intend to use even 10% of that 100K, it's simply there to keep my score climbing and all evidence suggests this will continue. My current util is about 2.5% and that is also being done simply to keep to the conventional wisdom that using the cards versus simply having them is a better way to improve your score.

Any thoughts, advice or just good old comments are welcome!

Have a great one!

Darryl & John

FYI - this list is in order of acquisition of the credit lines - the Citadel MC I mention in my post was closed (as it was joint) and re-opened under my name only and has steadily increased to the current CL shown.

Cap One Platinum Rewards $1,500.00
Dell $1,500.00
Home Depot $2,200.00
Amazon $1,350.00
Discover $1,500.00
Kohls $300.00
Macys $300.00
Wells Fargo Visa $1,000.00
Citadel Credit Union MC $9,000.00
Barclay's USAIR $9,500.00
USAA VISA $6,000.00
CHASE Amazon $500.00
Cap One MC $1,000.00
Delta SkyMiles AMEX $5,000.00
USAA AMEX $5,000.00
PayPal $610.00
Wells Fargo AMEX $6,000.00
Citi Double Cash $4,000.00
CHASE Freedom $3,500.00
Barclay's Eagles $5,000.00
CHASE Disney Rewards $9,000.00
Cap One Venture $3,000.00
Barclay's Ring $5,000.00
AMEX Everyday $8,500.00
PENFED Warrior AMEX $10,000.00

[Anonymous]

I tend to think that people's impressions of how creditors react to added credit lines.  Yes, sometimes they take action if you have added too many accounts in a short period of time but more often than not, what scares them more than anything is over utilization of existing cards.  That can happen whether you have 3 or 15 cards.  As you can see from my signature I have a lot of accounts (some not even listed) and the vast majority of them are new.  I have no problems getting approved and I don't foresee any potential AAs in my future.  As long as you continue to use your cards responsibly I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Cingrats on your recovery and well done on all those added lines

[Anonymous]

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@darrylbowen1959 wrote:

Greetings Everyone -

I am a great fan of the forums and though I don't post much I do read a lot and glean a lot of useful information (go backdoor numbers!)

I've seen several posts about keeping your number in inquiries down and am frankly a little confused based upon my own Empirical Evidence. Beginning May of 2012 I started my serious road to recovery after my ex nearly bankrupted me (yes, I was complicit too, every story has two sides). Anyway, at that time I had one Credit Union Master Card which is the only account he did not ruin with a $1000 limit on it and about 3 years of history. I applied for a mortgage and was told I needed at least a second line of credit so I applied for a secured card just to have it on the books. I followed the instructions of the mortgage broker to the letter and am happy to say that in November of 2012 we closed on our brand new house. My score at the time was hovering at 620 which was the FHA limit at the time (if memory serves).

Once the mortgage (Wells Fargo) started reporting I slowly started acquiring lines of credit, my first being a Capital One Rewards Card. I must state that even though they have consistently remained very guarded about giving me any CLI (it is currently $1500) I will remain loyal to them even though there is a $39.00 annual fee. I'm a loyal guy. But the real reason for my post is that every time I took action and started applying for credit (with the exception of the Capital One) I did so in "sprees" and with very few exceptions I was instantly approved. For some reason Lowes does not want my business but home depot did.

My latest spree as you'll see below in my list was $35,000 added to my available credit, literally over a weekend. 5 separate cards, including PenFed which all indications told me would not be approved based upon my readings. In fact, it was the highest of the 5 at $10,000. This was the largest initial credit line I have ever been offered on a credit card.

So I'm just looking to the pundits here in the forums. Am I on some secret list that says "he's a good guy" (I am). My scores are all across the board now in the mid 720's. With the exception of the mortgage (208K) no debt, not even a car payment and now have a total of just over $100,000 of available credit which I earned in under 3 years and as I said, mostly in "sprees". Have I found a loophole inasmuch as when I hit so many at once they don't register quickly enough for the next creditor to notice?

I'm very proud of my recovery and regard it as something sacred! My past is my past and I bear no ill will toward my ex - he simply could not control his spending. My husband John and I on the other hand are very careful. We have lots of very nice things and don't scrimp but we weigh it all against our future goals, future needs, and current income and always keep it well below our means. I guess the bottom line is that is what the creditors have seen.

FYI - I never intend to use even 10% of that 100K, it's simply there to keep my score climbing and all evidence suggests this will continue. My current util is about 2.5% and that is also being done simply to keep to the conventional wisdom that using the cards versus simply having them is a better way to improve your score.

Any thoughts, advice or just good old comments are welcome!

Have a great one!

Darryl & John

FYI - this list is in order of acquisition of the credit lines - the Citadel MC I mention in my post was closed (as it was joint) and re-opened under my name only and has steadily increased to the current CL shown.

Cap One Platinum Rewards $1,500.00
Dell $1,500.00
Home Depot $2,200.00
Amazon $1,350.00
Discover $1,500.00
Kohls $300.00
Macys $300.00
Wells Fargo Visa $1,000.00
Citadel Credit Union MC $9,000.00
Barclay's USAIR $9,500.00
USAA VISA $6,000.00
CHASE Amazon $500.00
Cap One MC $1,000.00
Delta SkyMiles AMEX $5,000.00
USAA AMEX $5,000.00
PayPal $610.00
Wells Fargo AMEX $6,000.00
Citi Double Cash $4,000.00
CHASE Freedom $3,500.00
Barclay's Eagles $5,000.00
CHASE Disney Rewards $9,000.00
Cap One Venture $3,000.00
Barclay's Ring $5,000.00
AMEX Everyday $8,500.00
PENFED Warrior AMEX $10,000.00

---

That's great. Inquiries do the most damage when you have a lackluster or borderline profile. If your profile is well within the creditor's guidelines, Inquiries will likely only result in less desirable terms if anything.

Regarding that Capital One with an AF. Have you reached out to them to see if they will remove the AF permanently?

[Anonymous]

A couple companies will shut you down based on inquiries - FNBO, for example, will turn away everyone, even if you're looking just for their secured offerings, if you have too many inquiries, and generally speaking won't overturn that even on recon.

Most companies, on the other hand, look a little more at your overall profile than a handful of inquiries.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I tend to think that people's impressions of how creditors react to added credit lines.  Yes, sometimes they take action if you have added too many accounts in a short period of time but more often than not, what scares them more than anything is over utilization of existing cards.  That can happen whether you have 3 or 15 cards.  As you can see from my signature I have a lot of accounts (some not even listed) and the vast majority of them are new.  I have no problems getting approved and I don't foresee any potential AAs in my future.  As long as you continue to use your cards responsibly I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Cingrats on your recovery and well done on all those added lines

---

+1

And i'm in the same (but lower score) boat as you. I don't fear AA as the only time when high UTIL shows for me is when i'm stuffing a card to the brim to meet a spend bonus.

The only one that is a little iffy for me is the CashRewards which I BT'd 4K (40% of CL) in order to stay as fluid as possible for the next few months. But I am DEFINITELY making considerably larger than min payments, so not really worried about it either.

[dobirdsmommy]

---

@darrylbowen1959 wrote:

Greetings Everyone -

I am a great fan of the forums and though I don't post much I do read a lot and glean a lot of useful information (go backdoor numbers!)

I've seen several posts about keeping your number in inquiries down and am frankly a little confused based upon my own Empirical Evidence. Beginning May of 2012 I started my serious road to recovery after my ex nearly bankrupted me (yes, I was complicit too, every story has two sides). Anyway, at that time I had one Credit Union Master Card which is the only account he did not ruin with a $1000 limit on it and about 3 years of history. I applied for a mortgage and was told I needed at least a second line of credit so I applied for a secured card just to have it on the books. I followed the instructions of the mortgage broker to the letter and am happy to say that in November of 2012 we closed on our brand new house. My score at the time was hovering at 620 which was the FHA limit at the time (if memory serves).

Once the mortgage (Wells Fargo) started reporting I slowly started acquiring lines of credit, my first being a Capital One Rewards Card. I must state that even though they have consistently remained very guarded about giving me any CLI (it is currently $1500) I will remain loyal to them even though there is a $39.00 annual fee. I'm a loyal guy. But the real reason for my post is that every time I took action and started applying for credit (with the exception of the Capital One) I did so in "sprees" and with very few exceptions I was instantly approved. For some reason Lowes does not want my business but home depot did.

My latest spree as you'll see below in my list was $35,000 added to my available credit, literally over a weekend. 5 separate cards, including PenFed which all indications told me would not be approved based upon my readings. In fact, it was the highest of the 5 at $10,000. This was the largest initial credit line I have ever been offered on a credit card.

So I'm just looking to the pundits here in the forums. Am I on some secret list that says "he's a good guy" (I am). My scores are all across the board now in the mid 720's. With the exception of the mortgage (208K) no debt, not even a car payment and now have a total of just over $100,000 of available credit which I earned in under 3 years and as I said, mostly in "sprees". Have I found a loophole inasmuch as when I hit so many at once they don't register quickly enough for the next creditor to notice?

I'm very proud of my recovery and regard it as something sacred! My past is my past and I bear no ill will toward my ex - he simply could not control his spending. My husband John and I on the other hand are very careful. We have lots of very nice things and don't scrimp but we weigh it all against our future goals, future needs, and current income and always keep it well below our means. I guess the bottom line is that is what the creditors have seen.

FYI - I never intend to use even 10% of that 100K, it's simply there to keep my score climbing and all evidence suggests this will continue. My current util is about 2.5% and that is also being done simply to keep to the conventional wisdom that using the cards versus simply having them is a better way to improve your score.

Any thoughts, advice or just good old comments are welcome!

Have a great one!

Darryl & John

FYI - this list is in order of acquisition of the credit lines - the Citadel MC I mention in my post was closed (as it was joint) and re-opened under my name only and has steadily increased to the current CL shown.

Cap One Platinum Rewards $1,500.00
Dell $1,500.00
Home Depot $2,200.00
Amazon $1,350.00
Discover $1,500.00
Kohls $300.00
Macys $300.00
Wells Fargo Visa $1,000.00
Citadel Credit Union MC $9,000.00
Barclay's USAIR $9,500.00
USAA VISA $6,000.00
CHASE Amazon $500.00
Cap One MC $1,000.00
Delta SkyMiles AMEX $5,000.00
USAA AMEX $5,000.00
PayPal $610.00
Wells Fargo AMEX $6,000.00
Citi Double Cash $4,000.00
CHASE Freedom $3,500.00
Barclay's Eagles $5,000.00
CHASE Disney Rewards $9,000.00
Cap One Venture $3,000.00
Barclay's Ring $5,000.00
AMEX Everyday $8,500.00
PENFED Warrior AMEX $10,000.00

---

I am super jealous of your Disney 9k. Can you tell me did you just inquire about that or was it a pre-selected offer

[VirusCredit13]

Inquires have a small effect on Fico scores, and are probably pretty low metrics that will cause a denial. As mentioned some banks are sensitive to inquires/new accounts, but typically it isn't going to have anywhere near of an inpact as other factors. Debt to Income, derogatory accounts, high credit utilization are all factors where even one of them by themself can get you rejected on an app. Inquires aren't as bad or damaging to chances of app success.

[darrylbowen1959]

Thanks everyone. I always get great advice and opinions on this site! I will definitely talk to Cap One to see if they will annul the annual fee.

[darrylbowen1959]

I meant to add.  When I received my Delta SkyMiles AMEX last year I was very surprised to learn that they had given me credit (in years) for my original membership that had been lost by the aforementioned ex.  That account was opened in 1993 and once the new card hit my report my account age jumped by 21 years!  I wonder how much that factored into it. Probably more for terms.   I'm happy to report that my new Barclays Ring is at 8% and the PenFed is at 10%!

[darrylbowen1959]

Actually linked through the Disney Vacation Club site.  I figured having a previous relationship with Chase would make it safe bet.  I will say that the 9k surprised me in a very good way!