Reply
Valued Contributor
navigatethis12
Posts: 1,881
Registered: ‎01-24-2012

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps


enharu wrote:

navigatethis12 wrote:


I'm not married and never will be, but have to say a stay at home parent should not have credit cards in their name if they have no income. A spouse's income is not your income and shouldn't be used when applying. Say you buy something and your spouse doesn't agree with it; it isn't returnable and now you have a $4000 balance that you cannot pay because you have no money of your own.

 

Putting a parent's income on an application could lead to income verification, which you would obviously fail. Capital One and Citi told me to put my parents income in 2009, but I was sure that such a high number listed as income for a 19 year old would not just fly through the computer with no questions asked.


hypothetically speaking, if you have a spouse like this, or think your to be spouse is going to be like this, you got bigger problems than worrying about a credit card app. Unless of course....4000 is peanuts compared to what u make, then thats a different story.


No 4000 isn't that much, but if my husband bought something stupid then I would not be the one to pay for it. I'm not saying every spouse would go and buy something or some things that the other may not like, but it is a possibility.

 


09Lexie wrote:
This is 2013, not the 1950's. Since this seems to be aimed mostly at women ( the regulation to amend the CardAct) for STAHM a partnership, marriage, committed relationship should be built on trust and communication. No one is advocating spending wildly, racking up bills and leaving your family in debt. The point is whether or not those who choose to Stay at Home be left without the ability to obtain credit- isn't their work at home worth something? Anything? Childcare, maid service and cooks are all services that stay at home parents provide.

I wasn't specifically talking about women, because there are some stay at home males too. I was just giving an example of what could happen if the spouse gets a credit card in their name with no income. I just believe that when you get married, you should keep money seperate. If the spouse decides to give up their job or career to stay home, that is their decision and they no longer have an income because of it. The stay at home parent provides those things because they choose to. Wouldn't it be weird to get a cheque from your spouse at the end of the week like it was a job? If they want to spend, ask the spouse if they can use their cards.

Moderator
09Lexie
Posts: 24,418
Registered: ‎09-13-2012

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps

I assume the stay at home parent isn't an AU on cc's either. Just, stay at home, cook, clean, take care of kids. Don't need a cc for that and the 'working spouse' can handle all the hard stuff like buying groceries and paying the bills.

Shaking my head!
Super Contributor
enharu
Posts: 6,889
Registered: ‎02-27-2013

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps

[ Edited ]

navigatethis12 wrote:

enharu wrote:

navigatethis12 wrote:


I'm not married and never will be, but have to say a stay at home parent should not have credit cards in their name if they have no income. A spouse's income is not your income and shouldn't be used when applying. Say you buy something and your spouse doesn't agree with it; it isn't returnable and now you have a $4000 balance that you cannot pay because you have no money of your own.

 

Putting a parent's income on an application could lead to income verification, which you would obviously fail. Capital One and Citi told me to put my parents income in 2009, but I was sure that such a high number listed as income for a 19 year old would not just fly through the computer with no questions asked.


hypothetically speaking, if you have a spouse like this, or think your to be spouse is going to be like this, you got bigger problems than worrying about a credit card app. Unless of course....4000 is peanuts compared to what u make, then thats a different story.


No 4000 isn't that much, but if my husband bought something stupid then I would not be the one to pay for it. I'm not saying every spouse would go and buy something or some things that the other may not like, but it is a possibility.

 


09Lexie wrote:
This is 2013, not the 1950's. Since this seems to be aimed mostly at women ( the regulation to amend the CardAct) for STAHM a partnership, marriage, committed relationship should be built on trust and communication. No one is advocating spending wildly, racking up bills and leaving your family in debt. The point is whether or not those who choose to Stay at Home be left without the ability to obtain credit- isn't their work at home worth something? Anything? Childcare, maid service and cooks are all services that stay at home parents provide.

I wasn't specifically talking about women, because there are some stay at home males too. I was just giving an example of what could happen if the spouse gets a credit card in their name with no income. I just believe that when you get married, you should keep money seperate. If the spouse decides to give up their job or career to stay home, that is their decision and they no longer have an income because of it. The stay at home parent provides those things because they choose to. Wouldn't it be weird to get a cheque from your spouse at the end of the week like it was a job? If they want to spend, ask the spouse if they can use their cards.


to the first quote, i understand what you mean. things like that can happen, and probably happen more frequently than what one would think.

but this underlines a lack of understanding and communication problems between a couple. it's just going to keep happening as well until they iron this out. 

 

and to your second quote, someone has to stay home sometimes to take care of the kid(s), whether it be the male or female staying at home. for example your wife might be staying at home to take care of your parents (her in-laws in other words). in this hypothetical scenario, she obviously made a sacrifice to take care of your parents, and you can't just say it's her decision. it takes both hands to wash each other. you can't really make a clear distinction for many things for married couples.

also, they can't use your cards unless they are AU and have a card that has her name on it. most stores will not let you use someone else's credit card even if you have the ID and have means to prove that person is your direct kin or spouse.

 

 

JPMorgan Palladium (100k), AmEx Platinum (NPSL), AmEx SPG (46k), AmEx BCP (42k), Chase Sapphire Preferred (47k), Citi Prestige (31k), Citi Thank You Preferred (27k), Citi Executive AAdvantage (25k), JPMorgan Ritz-Carlton (21k), Merrill+ (15k), US Bank Cash+ (22.5k), Wells Fargo (12k), Bloomingdale’s (12.4k), Chase Freedom (5k), Discover IT (5k).
Valued Contributor
CreditScholar
Posts: 2,300
Registered: ‎01-22-2012

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps


navigatethis12 wrote:

enharu wrote:

navigatethis12 wrote:


I'm not married and never will be, but have to say a stay at home parent should not have credit cards in their name if they have no income. A spouse's income is not your income and shouldn't be used when applying. Say you buy something and your spouse doesn't agree with it; it isn't returnable and now you have a $4000 balance that you cannot pay because you have no money of your own.

 

Putting a parent's income on an application could lead to income verification, which you would obviously fail. Capital One and Citi told me to put my parents income in 2009, but I was sure that such a high number listed as income for a 19 year old would not just fly through the computer with no questions asked.


hypothetically speaking, if you have a spouse like this, or think your to be spouse is going to be like this, you got bigger problems than worrying about a credit card app. Unless of course....4000 is peanuts compared to what u make, then thats a different story.


No 4000 isn't that much, but if my husband bought something stupid then I would not be the one to pay for it. I'm not saying every spouse would go and buy something or some things that the other may not like, but it is a possibility.

 


09Lexie wrote:
This is 2013, not the 1950's. Since this seems to be aimed mostly at women ( the regulation to amend the CardAct) for STAHM a partnership, marriage, committed relationship should be built on trust and communication. No one is advocating spending wildly, racking up bills and leaving your family in debt. The point is whether or not those who choose to Stay at Home be left without the ability to obtain credit- isn't their work at home worth something? Anything? Childcare, maid service and cooks are all services that stay at home parents provide.

I wasn't specifically talking about women, because there are some stay at home males too. I was just giving an example of what could happen if the spouse gets a credit card in their name with no income. I just believe that when you get married, you should keep money seperate. If the spouse decides to give up their job or career to stay home, that is their decision and they no longer have an income because of it. The stay at home parent provides those things because they choose to. Wouldn't it be weird to get a cheque from your spouse at the end of the week like it was a job? If they want to spend, ask the spouse if they can use their cards.


I don't know if I agree with this as someone who has joint finances.

 

First and foremost, the value of something is only what someone is willing to pay for it. I see lots of articles about the value of stay at home moms, and I can't help but roll my eyes when I see the figures attached to it. Cost of a cook, nurse, or whatever all with hourly wages. The sad reality is that you're not a registered nurse or an employed cook, and therefore can't associate those values to the work of stay at home parents. Yes the work is worth something, but it's nowhere near what they claim it to be. Simple economics show that being a stay at home mom (or dad) makes financial sense for those who have low earning power, but for someone who is earning say 250k they can easily pay childcare/taxes (perhaps even work a bit less) and still come out ahead.

 

People need to forget about what they personally think is right in this case and need to see things through the eyes of the lender. Cdnewmanpac summed it up perfectly:

 

We are not talking about joint accounts. Hhi has always been allowed for joint applications. This is about one person applying for credit, but listing another person's income as the means of repayment. The fact that the two people are married doesn't double the income and that income may have already been used as a promise to repay other debts. The joint expenses argument is easily solved by listing 1/2 of the mortgage if you pay half. But again, this isn't about 2 income families splitting expenses. It is about two members of a one income family both using that income to obtain individual credit. The fact that it is now legal doesn't change the ethical or economic value of the practice.


Lenders offer people CLs based on your income and known expenses (such as rent or a mortgage). If a lender has given you all the credit that they can responsibly give, there's a reason for it. Now if that (shared income) has already been committed to expenses or other credit via your DW/DH, that creates a problem for lenders of overextension.

 

The worst is when kids (or roommates) try to use HHI. Don't even get me started on that.

FICOs: EX: 826, EQ: 817, TU: 810
Bank of America Privileges with Travel Rewards Visa Signature - $23,200 CL
Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature - $12,700 CL
Chase United MileagePlus Club World Elite MasterCard - $26,500 CL
Citibank American Airlines Executive World Elite MasterCard - $22,500 CL
J.P. Morgan Ritz Carlton Visa Signature - $23,500 CL
Valued Contributor
navigatethis12
Posts: 1,881
Registered: ‎01-24-2012

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps


09Lexie wrote:
I assume the stay at home parent isn't an AU on cc's either. Just, stay at home, cook, clean, take care of kids. Don't need a cc for that and the 'working spouse' can handle all the hard stuff like buying groceries and paying the bills.

Shaking my head!

Authorised user would be fine with me. I would just make sure he knew that it was to be used for certain things only and if he wanted something else, ask first. The thing is about the card being in the spouses name that has no income. Being an authorised user would not make that spouse responsible for anything if something goes wrong.

 

 


enharu wrote:



to the first quote, i understand what you mean. things like that can happen, and probably happen more frequently than what one would think.

but this underlines a lack of understanding and communication problems between a couple. it's just going to keep happening as well until they iron this out. 

 

and to your second quote, someone has to stay home sometimes to take care of the kid(s), whether it be the male or female staying at home. for example your wife might be staying at home to take care of your parents (her in-laws in other words). in this hypothetical scenario, she obviously made a sacrifice to take care of your parents, and you can't just say it's her decision. it takes both hands to wash each other. you can't really make a clear distinction for many things for married couples.

also, they can't use your cards unless they are AU and have a card that has her name on it. most stores will not let you use someone else's credit card even if you have the ID and have means to prove that person is your direct kin or spouse.

 

 


Which is why I just think it best to have money not merge after a marriage.

My parents and my aunts and uncles are worked and took care of children. If one of my parents had to go out and meet with a potental client or something, the other would stay home or they would take me and my siblings to my grandmother's house. I have never personally known anyone that does not work and just sits home with the children. I would never agree to such a thing as it would mean I was completely dependant on another person. I would never have my parents living with me and if I had a boyfriend or husband, I know for a fact they would want to be nowhere near us. Your spouse cannot make you do anything you do not want to do. If my husband asked me to stop my business and take care of his parents, I would say no. I don't know what kind of scenario would cause something of that nature to happen.

 

Round here you swipe the card yourself. Luckily my little brother has never had a problem using a card I give him to buy things with. The only place that asks to see the card is Radio Shack, so he would never use the cards there.

Valued Contributor
FinStar
Posts: 5,156
Registered: ‎10-21-2012

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps


CreditScholar wrote:

navigatethis12 wrote:

enharu wrote:

navigatethis12 wrote:


I'm not married and never will be, but have to say a stay at home parent should not have credit cards in their name if they have no income. A spouse's income is not your income and shouldn't be used when applying. Say you buy something and your spouse doesn't agree with it; it isn't returnable and now you have a $4000 balance that you cannot pay because you have no money of your own.

 

Putting a parent's income on an application could lead to income verification, which you would obviously fail. Capital One and Citi told me to put my parents income in 2009, but I was sure that such a high number listed as income for a 19 year old would not just fly through the computer with no questions asked.


hypothetically speaking, if you have a spouse like this, or think your to be spouse is going to be like this, you got bigger problems than worrying about a credit card app. Unless of course....4000 is peanuts compared to what u make, then thats a different story.


No 4000 isn't that much, but if my husband bought something stupid then I would not be the one to pay for it. I'm not saying every spouse would go and buy something or some things that the other may not like, but it is a possibility.

 


09Lexie wrote:
This is 2013, not the 1950's. Since this seems to be aimed mostly at women ( the regulation to amend the CardAct) for STAHM a partnership, marriage, committed relationship should be built on trust and communication. No one is advocating spending wildly, racking up bills and leaving your family in debt. The point is whether or not those who choose to Stay at Home be left without the ability to obtain credit- isn't their work at home worth something? Anything? Childcare, maid service and cooks are all services that stay at home parents provide.

I wasn't specifically talking about women, because there are some stay at home males too. I was just giving an example of what could happen if the spouse gets a credit card in their name with no income. I just believe that when you get married, you should keep money seperate. If the spouse decides to give up their job or career to stay home, that is their decision and they no longer have an income because of it. The stay at home parent provides those things because they choose to. Wouldn't it be weird to get a cheque from your spouse at the end of the week like it was a job? If they want to spend, ask the spouse if they can use their cards.


I don't know if I agree with this as someone who has joint finances.

 

First and foremost, the value of something is only what someone is willing to pay for it. I see lots of articles about the value of stay at home moms, and I can't help but roll my eyes when I see the figures attached to it. Cost of a cook, nurse, or whatever all with hourly wages. The sad reality is that you're not a registered nurse or an employed cook, and therefore can't associate those values to the work of stay at home parents. Yes the work is worth something, but it's nowhere near what they claim it to be. Simple economics show that being a stay at home mom (or dad) makes financial sense for those who have low earning power, but for someone who is earning say 250k they can easily pay childcare/taxes (perhaps even work a bit less) and still come out ahead.

 

People need to forget about what they personally think is right in this case and need to see things through the eyes of the lender. Cdnewmanpac summed it up perfectly:

 

We are not talking about joint accounts. Hhi has always been allowed for joint applications. This is about one person applying for credit, but listing another person's income as the means of repayment. The fact that the two people are married doesn't double the income and that income may have already been used as a promise to repay other debts. The joint expenses argument is easily solved by listing 1/2 of the mortgage if you pay half. But again, this isn't about 2 income families splitting expenses. It is about two members of a one income family both using that income to obtain individual credit. The fact that it is now legal doesn't change the ethical or economic value of the practice.


Lenders offer people CLs based on your income and known expenses (such as rent or a mortgage). If a lender has given you all the credit that they can responsibly give, there's a reason for it. Now if that (shared income) has already been committed to expenses or other credit via your DW/DH, that creates a problem for lenders of overextension.

 

The worst is when kids (or roommates) try to use HHI. Don't even get me started on that.


+1

 

Very excellent point.

Established Contributor
ezdoesit
Posts: 706
Registered: ‎03-16-2013

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps

@lexie

 

Yes I am saying she should not have cc in her name using my income.  She has her own credit cards and she is a au on two others.  What is the purpose of her having a cc under her name when I have to pay the bill on it anyway.  Give me a good reason why its is necessary.

Established Contributor
cashnocredit
Posts: 958
Registered: ‎07-18-2009

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps

Keep in mid that this permits but doesn't require creditors to relax their requirements. They are still allowed to use individual income if they wish. Almost all creditors want the expanded rule so in all probability they will impliment the new "reasonable expectation of access" wording. Also note this is NOT the same as "household income" and the new rule provides a lot of examples about what qualifies and doesn't.

I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy15k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Frequent Contributor
unc0mm0n1
Posts: 388
Registered: ‎03-05-2013

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps


navigatethis12 wrote:

09Lexie wrote:
@ezdoesit

So are you saying your DW should not have cc's in her name cause she's a stay at home mom? Are you afraid that if she obtained cc's using your salary she would spend 2x as much?

I'm not married and never will be, but have to say a stay at home parent should not have credit cards in their name if they have no income. A spouse's income is not your income and shouldn't be used when applying. Say you buy something and your spouse doesn't agree with it; it isn't returnable and now you have a $4000 balance that you cannot pay because you have no money of your own.

 

Putting a parent's income on an application could lead to income verification, which you would obviously fail. Capital One and Citi told me to put my parents income in 2009, but I was sure that such a high number listed as income for a 19 year old would not just fly through the computer with no questions asked.


I can tell you're not married nor do you plan to be. My money is my wifes money and vice versa. There is no her debt or my debt, it's our debt. She works right now while I'm in law school and I'll work while she gets her Ph.D. We make spending decisions together and no matter whose working she'll always have full access to our HHI. In most stable marriages, people discuss spening. Normally there isn't a 4k unilateral spending spree. If there is, you might have bigger issues in your marriage than CC applications. Spouses can always screw each other over if they choose to, but if you constantly have to look over your shoulder to see if you're being stabbed in the back by your mate, maybe you should get a new spouse.  

Last App December 7, 2013. Gardening until May 20, 2014
Current Score: 720 EX 714 EQ 712 TU 12/10/2013Goal Score: 720 across the board
Frequent Contributor
unc0mm0n1
Posts: 388
Registered: ‎03-05-2013

Re: Household income to be allowed on CC apps


ezdoesit wrote:

@lexie

 

Yes I am saying she should not have cc in her name using my income.  She has her own credit cards and she is a au on two others.  What is the purpose of her having a cc under her name when I have to pay the bill on it anyway.  Give me a good reason why its is necessary.


To build her own credit in case you die, or maybe to partake in benefits of a new account. Why do you get new credit cards.  maybe me and my wife are just weird but we don't separate our finances in this way. I don't say "ohhh I paid for that" or "you pay for this". We put our money into our joint account and we each have an equal personal budget (as well as a household budget). Currently she makes more because I'm in school and in the future when she's in school I'll make more and we could care less because all of the money is our money. 

Last App December 7, 2013. Gardening until May 20, 2014
Current Score: 720 EX 714 EQ 712 TU 12/10/2013Goal Score: 720 across the board

myFICO is the consumer division of FICO. Since its introduction 20 years ago, the FICO® Score has become a global standard for measuring credit risk in the banking, mortgage, credit card, auto and retail industries. 90 of the top 100 largest U.S. financial institutions use the FICO Score to make consumer credit decisions.

>> About myFICO
FICO Score - The Score that matters
Fair Isaac Corporation is a BBB Accredited Financial Service in San Rafael, CA
FOLLOW US Social Media Facebook Twitter Pinterest Google+