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Registered: ‎08-09-2015
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Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened

i think people draw conclusions from their own experiences, which can be helpful but unless it is something that a rep specifically has said..i would take it with a grain of salt and even than, if its something a rep says, i would believe it if its someone that came on board here or a screenshot of an email more easily than someone conveying it for them..he/said/she/said

 

that being said, i know for a fact that chase allows folks to have multiple cards--and i'm sure there are some bonus strictly chasers that get by them, but i also know that there has been a denial for a person who has great credit and was preselected for the csp..because that person only opens accounts with chase to get bonuses before closing. whether its cc or savings/ck offer..so chase will not open any new cc for that person. if that person wants to convert a current card to csp..sure..because they won't get a sign up bonus.

 

but no new cards..ever.

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Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened

[ Edited ]

Hit a nerve here.  Cant keep this on topic when other pressing things are being mentioned that need to be addressed. Love you guys to death, you have really helped with my score. But no.

 

Not once have I ever been told that talking about churning is not allowed. I think what I have realized here in this thread is just not use the word "churning"?  Who cares? You can go to reddit, flyertalk, etc. Why would you want to prevent this from being discussed here? Especially when they can have such horrible consequences to ones credit?  This day and age, churning IS a part of credit no matter which way you look at it.  And its not some taboo forbidden thing either.


I am not trying to be rude here or get a warning or something, maybe I am being overly sensitive from a biological standpoint. But telling someone that churning discussions arent allowed sounds narrowminded, prejudice, and almost like you're being PAID by the card companies to keep their mouths shut.

 

Whatever, I'm over it. You won't ever hear me say the word again unless I'm talking about irish butter. Geez.... I think I am going to cancel my $25 a month membership here and just lurk, I am just devastated by what I have read in this thread.  I mean come on. Going on about how to get extra credit limit increases, or tricking a computer into a credit card without an inquiry, or manipulating capital one into huge limits by applying tons of times and merging, or combining pulls, how is this any less manipulative than churning?

 

Could I please have someone either PM me or reply here with all of the exact specific reasons with citations as to why this cannot be discussed here. Based on everything I have learned from here, tricks of the trade, etc..I guess I had higher expectations.

 

Thank you

EQ 730, TU 730, EX 720. INQs EQ-2, TU-13, EX-12 AAOA 4yrs Util 3% Inspiration: Themanwhocan's Cash Back Charts
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Registered: ‎09-27-2014
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Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened


Subaroo wrote:

JonE wrote:

lhcole77 wrote:

JonE wrote:

And these days Chase is starting to make Barclays look like Capital One in comparison (not that I have a problem with that.)

 

Chase has always been a somewhat conservative lender, that's growing with their 5-card limit, not just of theirs, but 5 cards from ANY lender.  The only OTHER card I really want from them is the Sapphire Preferred.  That and a few AMEX would complete my card acquisitiions indefinitely. 


Can you please share more about this?


I would say do a search here, since there are threads all over the place in regards to that.  You have a limit of applying for 5 cards TOTAL (not just chase cards) in a 24 month period. 


 

That is not at all true.  My credit card history is not 24 years old at this point, however I have 10 total cards approved in that time frame which the LAST TWO were from Chase.

 

Sure, other than Synchrony, the only bank that I have applied for multiple cards is Chase, but my point is a "total of 5 cards max from all lenders" is not at all on their radar.


Correction.  WASN'T true.  It is now.  At least as of June of this year. 

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Posts: 8,368
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Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened

[ Edited ]

jfriend33 wrote:

Hit a nerve here.  Cant keep this on topic when other pressing things are being mentioned that need to be addressed. Love you guys to death, you have really helped with my score. But no.

 

Not once have I ever been told that talking about churning is not allowed. I think what I have realized here in this thread is just not use the word "churning"?  Who cares? You can go to reddit, flyertalk, etc. Why would you want to prevent this from being discussed here? Especially when they can have such horrible consequences to ones credit?  This day and age, churning IS a part of credit no matter which way you look at it.  And its not some taboo forbidden thing either.


I am not trying to be rude here or get a warning or something, maybe I am being overly sensitive from a biological standpoint. But telling someone that churning discussions arent allowed sounds narrowminded, prejudice, and almost like you're being PAID by the card companies to keep their mouths shut.

 

Whatever, I'm over it. You won't ever hear me say the word again unless I'm talking about irish butter. Geez.... I think I am going to cancel my $25 a month membership here and just lurk, I am just devastated by what I have read in this thread.  I mean come on. Going on about how to get extra credit limit increases, or tricking a computer into a credit card without an inquiry, or manipulating capital one into huge limits by applying tons of times and merging, or combining pulls, how is this any less manipulative than churning?

 

Could I please have someone either PM me or reply here with all of the exact specific reasons with citations as to why this cannot be discussed here. Based on everything I have learned from here, tricks of the trade, etc..I guess I had higher expectations.

 

Thank you


While I do agree that some things people do are really no better than churning (the HP manipulations, the huge limit merging thing etc) it doesn't make churning right. The reason Chase came out with the "bonus every 24 months" and the newer "5 accounts in 2 years" policies is to discourage people from opening, getting the bonus, closing, and rinsing and repeating. The cards were not designed to be $400 or whatever in "free money". The bonus is an incentive and it is expected you will continue to use the card afterwards. No issuer is in business to just give out money.

 

Now that being said, one has to do what they feel is best. If one wants to churn, they can, but I wouldn't agree with "no consequences" because every accout you churn is still there for 10 years on manual review. Doing it enough times it will catch up to you, though file thickness, history, etc. can make it take longer.

 

The industry is as a whole moving to do everything they can to prevent churning, so it stands to reason it's not something they want people doing. Look at Discover's "sign up bonus": you spend for a year, then you get your cash doubled. Ingenious, as there is no real churning possible with it. I expect we will see more of this type of thing in the future because the people who push it too far ruin it for everyone else. Which brings me to the Cap One merging. That burns me up as much as it does you. Milking a feature that Capital One just came out with by obtaining 4 Venture cards to consolidate is only going to lead to Capital One changing their mind about the feature, removing it, and then 100 threads about how terrible Cap One is, when really, it was ruined by the cardholder's own hands and nothing else. Same goes for churning. Enjoy it while you can because eventually, all avenues will be taken away, and the cardholders are the cause of it. However, if one wants to milk it while they can, that's their choice.

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Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened

+1 i'd like to know too. When the word Churning became taboo. I don't mean advocating it. just as i don't Advocate Ms. But im not going to Deny it exist. i would like to see the rules as well even in PM> Taxi.


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Registered: ‎10-07-2014

Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened

[ Edited ]

No one said the word is taboo.. GDale made it clear that it is the advocation of the practice that is prohibited.  Big difference.  That means you are not allowed to encourage the practice.  Same thing applies to MS.  There are plenty of other sites where you can discuss these activities.

Super Contributor
Posts: 7,774
Registered: ‎07-04-2014

Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened


Irish80 wrote:

No one said the word is taboo.. GDale made it clear that it is the advocation of the practice that is prohibited.  Big difference.  That means you are not allowed to encourage the practice.  Same thing applies to MS.  There are plenty of other sites where you can discuss these activities.


Ok. i understand that. But i did not see any where in the thread where some one advocated anything or encouraged some one else to churn. or do ms. maybe i overlooked something.


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Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened


kdm31091 wrote:

jfriend33 wrote:

Hit a nerve here.  Cant keep this on topic when other pressing things are being mentioned that need to be addressed. Love you guys to death, you have really helped with my score. But no.

 

Not once have I ever been told that talking about churning is not allowed. I think what I have realized here in this thread is just not use the word "churning"?  Who cares? You can go to reddit, flyertalk, etc. Why would you want to prevent this from being discussed here? Especially when they can have such horrible consequences to ones credit?  This day and age, churning IS a part of credit no matter which way you look at it.  And its not some taboo forbidden thing either.


I am not trying to be rude here or get a warning or something, maybe I am being overly sensitive from a biological standpoint. But telling someone that churning discussions arent allowed sounds narrowminded, prejudice, and almost like you're being PAID by the card companies to keep their mouths shut.

 

Whatever, I'm over it. You won't ever hear me say the word again unless I'm talking about irish butter. Geez.... I think I am going to cancel my $25 a month membership here and just lurk, I am just devastated by what I have read in this thread.  I mean come on. Going on about how to get extra credit limit increases, or tricking a computer into a credit card without an inquiry, or manipulating capital one into huge limits by applying tons of times and merging, or combining pulls, how is this any less manipulative than churning?

 

Could I please have someone either PM me or reply here with all of the exact specific reasons with citations as to why this cannot be discussed here. Based on everything I have learned from here, tricks of the trade, etc..I guess I had higher expectations.

 

Thank you


While I do agree that some things people do are really no better than churning (the HP manipulations, the huge limit merging thing etc) it doesn't make churning right. The reason Chase came out with the "bonus every 24 months" and the newer "5 accounts in 2 years" policies is to discourage people from opening, getting the bonus, closing, and rinsing and repeating. The cards were not designed to be $400 or whatever in "free money". The bonus is an incentive and it is expected you will continue to use the card afterwards. No issuer is in business to just give out money.

 

Now that being said, one has to do what they feel is best. If one wants to churn, they can, but I wouldn't agree with "no consequences" because every accout you churn is still there for 10 years on manual review. Doing it enough times it will catch up to you, though file thickness, history, etc. can make it take longer.

 

The industry is as a whole moving to do everything they can to prevent churning, so it stands to reason it's not something they want people doing. Look at Discover's "sign up bonus": you spend for a year, then you get your cash doubled. Ingenious, as there is no real churning possible with it. I expect we will see more of this type of thing in the future because the people who push it too far ruin it for everyone else. Which brings me to the Cap One merging. That burns me up as much as it does you. Milking a feature that Capital One just came out with by obtaining 4 Venture cards to consolidate is only going to lead to Capital One changing their mind about the feature, removing it, and then 100 threads about how terrible Cap One is, when really, it was ruined by the cardholder's own hands and nothing else. Same goes for churning. Enjoy it while you can because eventually, all avenues will be taken away, and the cardholders are the cause of it. However, if one wants to milk it while they can, that's their choice.


ahhh

 

i hope that wasn't in reference to me jfriend33, but if it is that wasn't my intention.

 

i tried advocating for the person who i think essentially has been 'blacklisted' that way but was told that there is nothing they're going to do..its their right..kind of like the slogan we 'reserve the right to refuse business'. 

 

anyways, the rep said that by closing the card before the year is up, and only using it to get the bonus, essentially its $400 that they're just 'giving' away without anything (or near anything) in return.

 

if there are the rules, there are the rules.

 

than there are the creative ones that make the rule makers reevaluate the rules.

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Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened

♫ I Didn't Mean To Churn You On ♪  Oh wait, this isnt the Robert Palmer song from the 80's.  Nevermind!

Super Contributor
Posts: 6,132
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: I Didn't Mean to Churn, Yet it Happened


Irish80 wrote:

No one said the word is taboo.. GDale made it clear that it is the advocation of the practice that is prohibited.  Big difference.  That means you are not allowed to encourage the practice.  Same thing applies to MS.  There are plenty of other sites where you can discuss these activities.


I understand the position about churning and that it can be discussed but not advocated (and I would suggest in fairness that people who disagree with churning not be allowed to respond to questions passing judgements on the posters- if you can't advocate for it then people shouldn't be able to have crusades against it either).

 

However, my understanding about MS was that it isn't really supposed to be discussed at all. There are topics within churning which are educational and necessary for discussion when it comes to credit cards such as can I get this bonus again, how long I have to wait, which may relate to people who are not just churning cards but had cancelled for other reasons. With MS, at least my understanding was, that it is not discussed because there really is nothing education about it, either you are advocating it or are telling other people how to do it. Talking about the potential consequences of MS just invites people to post about how those who are MSing are victimizing the banks. So while I think there is beneficial stuff to be learned from churning conversations (or more to the point conversation that relate tangentially to churning) I do not believe there is anything beneficial about talking about MS and therefore I had always understood that MS was treated differently from churning discussions. 

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