IRA -> Credit Line

[slick_shoes_182]

So now I'm leaning towards rolling the 401K over to Citibank so that I can join their Citigold program. The advertised rates on their Personal Loans (6.74%  minimum.. includes all "adjustments" like relationship) and Custom Line of Credit (4.85% minimum.. includes all "adjustments" like relationship) look better than anyone I can find aside from credit unions. I love credit unions, I'm just not thinking there would be much benefit to rolling over my 401K there. Citigold would at least save ~0.25% on interest. I'm not sure that any loan or credit limits would be higher, but maybe it will help.. who knows. So far I can't think of a place where the IRA would make more impact.

Maybe they'll still turn out to be too stingy on credit lines/APRs/loan amounts, though. I did apply for one of their credit cards (CitiSimplicity) earlier this year. I have no credit problems, but a rather high utilization % at the time (I was looking to BT what I could.. PIF the rest that I had carried since around Novemeber). Their limit was 3k.. I have 30K from 3 other financial instutitions (2 credit unions + BOA) so I'm not off to an impressive start.

[sjt]

---

@slick_shoes_182 wrote:

So now I'm leaning towards rolling the 401K over to Citibank so that I can join their Citigold program. The advertised rates on their Personal Loans (6.74%  minimum.. includes all "adjustments" like relationship) and Custom Line of Credit (4.85% minimum.. includes all "adjustments" like relationship) look better than anyone I can find aside from credit unions. I love credit unions, I'm just not thinking there would be much benefit to rolling over my 401K there. Citigold would at least save ~0.25% on interest. I'm not sure that any loan or credit limits would be higher, but maybe it will help.. who knows. So far I can't think of a place where the IRA would make more impact.

Maybe they'll still turn out to be too stingy on credit lines/APRs/loan amounts, though. I did apply for one of their credit cards (CitiSimplicity) earlier this year. I have no credit problems, but a rather high utilization % at the time (I was looking to BT what I could.. PIF the rest that I had carried since around Novemeber). Their limit was 3k.. I have 30K from 3 other financial instutitions (2 credit unions + BOA) so I'm not off to an impressive start.

---

Although its tempting to be able to leverage your 401K/retirement accounts gain access to Citigold (the program not the checking account), Chase Private Client, etc. you need to beware of the fees they charge for managing your investments and if the financial advisor is looking out for your best interests. Many times these fees out weight the "benefits." Also, the Relationship Manager makes a big difference as well. Being a client doesnt mean automatic of approval credit products either.

[RemyWinchester]

Vanguard that IRA, all day, everyday. Dump it into a target retirement date and set it and forget it. Lowest expense ratios (how much the company makes off your money) in the industry. They can do all the transfering for you, just give them the account info. Go to Vanguard's website for more info. 

I use T.Rowe Price - only cause I really like a few of their funds and my low-cost index funds are in the government's thrift savings program. 

I highly recommened not using a bank for your IRA.  

It's even good practive to seperate credit cards from deposit accounts and retirement accounts.  Though I have credit cards from banks where I have checking accounts, I hardly use these cards. 

[slick_shoes_182]

---

@sjt wrote:

---

---

Although its tempting to be able to leverage your 401K/retirement accounts gain access to Citigold (the program not the checking account), Chase Private Client, etc. you need to beware of the fees they charge for managing your investments and if the financial advisor is looking out for your best interests. Many times these fees out weight the "benefits." Also, the Relationship Manager makes a big difference as well. Being a client doesnt mean automatic of approval credit products either.

---

Those are great points. I'm still trying to understand Citi's fees and can't find it as clearly on their website as... well... virtually every other bank I can think of is much clearer about their fees. Maybe that's a bad sign, haha.

I'm planning to manage the IRA myself, so based on a document I found at one point (and now can't find again) for investment accounts at Citi, I <THINK> there would be no maintenance fees. A CitiGold client working through a PWM, on the otherhand, would pay $50/yr. The comissions were also higher than I'm used to ($20 for online trades done by yourself.. and up from there if you don't do it online, have a PWM, etc). It wasn't referring specifically to IRA's, however, and seemed like an incomplete list. I wouldn't be surprised if they have additional fees like "Inactivity Fee" which didn't appear on the list I saw. Maybe they also have extra fees for it being an IRA instead of a regular investment account. I messaged citibank on Facebook about links to the fees on their Custom Credit Line and IRA accounts and they referred me to some phone numbers. However, I really need to see everything laid out in writing. Overall, even managing the IRA myself, it could be costlier than using regular discount brokers.

My understanding is that the underwriting is handled by its own group so I'm not sure how much impact a person in a branch (Relationship manager or whoever) can have? I'm not even sure if they have any flexibility. Maybe underwriters have a pretty scripted process where the computer basically evaluates everything and they make adjustments simply if something seems unusual. Then, the only advantage having the "relationship" would be is the official discounts you get based on your balance + the underwriter will have some confidence since "If he has a bunch of money at our bank, he's probably not broke." I think that's what I would be gaining. I'm open to suggestions about where I could gain more. My general goal is to use my growing assets to give me access (not necessarily to use.. but to have available "Just In Case") to increasing amounts of credit at the lowest cost possible.

Have you been able to get more done with a Relationship Manager at any bank? I really haven't worked with them so I have no idea how much they can really help things. If I was going to apply for a loan.. I would probably go into a bank branch, wait for the first banker to become to become available, and they would take my loan app. Maybe if I'm declined or the terms aren't great, I would ask them to ask the underwriter why I was declined.. or have them tell the underwriter "Pretty please approve him.." But maybe I am going about this all wrong? Maybe theres a better way to do this?

[sjt]

---

@slick_shoes_182 wrote:

---

Those are great points. I'm still trying to understand Citi's fees and can't find it as clearly on their website as... well... virtually every other bank I can think of is much clearer about their fees. Maybe that's a bad sign, haha.

I'm planning to manage the IRA myself, so based on a document I found at one point (and now can't find again) for investment accounts at Citi, I <THINK> there would be no maintenance fees. A CitiGold client working through a PWM, on the otherhand, would pay $50/yr. The comissions were also higher than I'm used to ($20 for online trades done by yourself.. and up from there if you don't do it online, have a PWM, etc). It wasn't referring specifically to IRA's, however, and seemed like an incomplete list. I wouldn't be surprised if they have additional fees like "Inactivity Fee" which didn't appear on the list I saw. Maybe they also have extra fees for it being an IRA instead of a regular investment account. I messaged citibank on Facebook about links to the fees on their Custom Credit Line and IRA accounts and they referred me to some phone numbers. However, I really need to see everything laid out in writing. Overall, even managing the IRA myself, it could be costlier than using regular discount brokers.

My understanding is that the underwriting is handled by its own group so I'm not sure how much impact a person in a branch (Relationship manager or whoever) can have? I'm not even sure if they have any flexibility. Maybe underwriters have a pretty scripted process where the computer basically evaluates everything and they make adjustments simply if something seems unusual. Then, the only advantage having the "relationship" would be is the official discounts you get based on your balance + the underwriter will have some confidence since "If he has a bunch of money at our bank, he's probably not broke." I think that's what I would be gaining. I'm open to suggestions about where I could gain more. My general goal is to use my growing assets to give me access (not necessarily to use.. but to have available "Just In Case") to increasing amounts of credit at the lowest cost possible.

Have you been able to get more done with a Relationship Manager at any bank? I really haven't worked with them so I have no idea how much they can really help things. If I was going to apply for a loan.. I would probably go into a bank branch, wait for the first banker to become to become available, and they would take my loan app. Maybe if I'm declined or the terms aren't great, I would ask them to ask the underwriter why I was declined.. or have them tell the underwriter "Pretty please approve him.." But maybe I am going about this all wrong? Maybe theres a better way to do this?

---

Citibank has revamping the Citigold Program to cater to the "Mass Affluent Market." There are three tiers, $250K, $500K (gets you more benefits,) and Citigold Private Client ($1MM.) Citigold is meant to compete with Chase Private Client. They do have their own underwriting department for real estate loans and I am not sure about consumer loans. Generally their underwriters are more experienced and have a better understanding of financal statements. They can make exceptions but the exceptions depend on the relationship. The relationship manager makes a huge difference because they are the ones that make the case for you. I have seem some that go to bat for you and others that just go with the decision of the underwriter.

Before you go with a Citibank or Chase, look at community banks or banks that specifically cater to the mass affluent or above. First Republic Bank and Signature Bank are amongst those banks.

[slick_shoes_182]

Thank you for the advice. I have been curious about First Republic since I saw their 1.05% mortgage for facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg in the news. I'll try to meet with them. I don't know much about City National Bank, but I think they are in the same category, so I will try to meet with them, too. I assume that you mean the Signature Bank in New York. I probably won't bother with them since they're not in California.  

Thanks again!

[sjt]

---

@slick_shoes_182 wrote:

Thank you for the advice. I have been curious about First Republic since I saw their 1.05% mortgage for facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg in the news. I'll try to meet with them. I don't know much about City National Bank, but I think they are in the same category, so I will try to meet with them, too. I assume that you mean the Signature Bank in New York. I probably won't bother with them since they're not in California.  

Thanks again!

---

City National is another very good bank. They started out as a bank that catered to (and still does) the entertainment industry, hence "Banker to the Stars."

They have a Preferred Banking Program similar to Citigold and Chase Private Client. I think City National has more flexible lending products and better pricing. You can even colladerize any of their credit cards and lines.