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solxp
Posts: 93
Registered: ‎12-16-2012
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Re: Is credit card industry lucrative???

[ Edited ]

bribro wrote:

solxp wrote:

Banks like WF and BoA make a ton of money off gouging there low income customers. 90% of people with a BoA or WF card also bank with one of them I would bet 90% of chase card holders do not bank with Chase due to there much smaller Banking footprint. Companies like First Premier make make millions each year in profits and they cater to HIGH RISK people who other banks wont touch. 



They say 90% of statistics are made up on the spot, and that's definitely the case here. :smileyhappy:

 

JPMorganChase is the largest U.S. bank by assets AND by deposits, with ~$2.5 trillion and ~$1.1 trillion, respectively. By no means do they have a small banking footprint. That may have been the case 5 years ago before the WaMu acquistion and their aggressive expansion in the West Coast, but no more.


They say you can twist numbers to show whatever outcome you desire and that's def the case here,,,,:smileylol:

 

JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A.,  Chase, is a national bank that constitutes the consumer and  comerical banking subsidiary of the banking corporation JPMorgan Chase, Your number are not correct in regards to the banking assets you listed the entire Companys assets. Chase BANK operated in 23 states less then half the states in the US.  BoA is found in all 50 states. I am not a mathmatician but I would take to mean BoA's footprint is alot larger then Chases.  I think maybe the diffrences in opinion in this thread might be in how each person is defining the term Bank. Its gotten confusing over the last 10 years I agree. Banks like BoA and WF get the biggest chunk of thier profits from fee's charged to there customers and from tradiional loans. Chase on the other hand became the big boy on the block via investements and other area and then in order to diversify and capture other revenue streams they expanded their offerings to include retail banking. There still make the majority of thier profits not from fee's from banking customers or mortage/loans but from investment management and other areas outside traditional banking products. 

 

Bank to me means the branch I go to when I need to apply for a loan or open my safe deposit box or cash a check. I consider JP morgan to be an investment banker. I bank with USAA and BB&T. I invest with Morgan Stanley. I view retail banking seperate from investment banking. While the line has become alot more blurred over the last decade. BoA and WF both have inhouse investment banking services but these services are not offered in every retail location to my knowledge. 

 

I stand by my statement that BoA and WF both have larger banking footprints then Chase. I will amend that to say larger retail banking footprints if that makes the point I was trying to illustrate more clear. The numbers I quoted in this response all came from BoA and Chases websites. 

 

I can not drive more then 300 feet in any direction in North Carolina with out seeing a BoA or WF this is probably due to both banks having deep roots in North Carolina but even though we are not the biggest State in the US. At the 10th largest with close to 10million people we not exactly small potatoes either yet Chase has zero retail presence in NC. Trust me I know spent a couple days several months ago trying to find any Chase location here even asked for help on these boards to open a banking account to take advantage of the 10+10 deal. Closes one to me was West Virginia. Meaning Chase has no retail footprint in Virginia, Tenn, or South Carolina  exculding another 20 million customer all of which BoA services. 

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enharu
Posts: 7,132
Registered: ‎02-27-2013
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Re: Is credit card industry lucrative???

[ Edited ]

solxp wrote:

bribro wrote:

solxp wrote:

Banks like WF and BoA make a ton of money off gouging there low income customers. 90% of people with a BoA or WF card also bank with one of them I would bet 90% of chase card holders do not bank with Chase due to there much smaller Banking footprint. Companies like First Premier make make millions each year in profits and they cater to HIGH RISK people who other banks wont touch. 



They say 90% of statistics are made up on the spot, and that's definitely the case here. :smileyhappy:

 

JPMorganChase is the largest U.S. bank by assets AND by deposits, with ~$2.5 trillion and ~$1.1 trillion, respectively. By no means do they have a small banking footprint. That may have been the case 5 years ago before the WaMu acquistion and their aggressive expansion in the West Coast, but no more.


They say you can twist numbers to show whatever outcome you desire and that's def the case here,,,,:smileylol:

 

JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A.,  Chase, is a national bank that constitutes the consumer and  comerical banking subsidiary of the banking corporation JPMorgan Chase, Your number are not correct in regards to the banking assets you listed the entire Companys assets. Chase BANK operated in 23 states less then half the states in the US.  BoA is found in all 50 states. I am not a mathmatician but I would take to mean BoA's footprint is alot larger then Chases.  I think maybe the diffrences in opinion in this thread might be in how each person is defining the term Bank. Its gotten confusing over the last 10 years I agree. Banks like BoA and WF get the biggest chunk of thier profits from fee's charged to there customers and from tradiional loans. Chase on the other hand became the big boy on the block via investements and other area and then in order to diversify and capture other revenue streams they expanded their offerings to include retail banking. There still make the majority of thier profits not from fee's from banking customers or mortage/loans but from investment management and other areas outside traditional banking products. 

 

Bank to me means the branch I go to when I need to apply for a loan or open my safe deposit box or cash a check. I consider JP morgan to be an investment banker. I bank with USAA and BB&T. I invest with Morgan Stanley. I view retail banking seperate from investment banking. While the line has become alot more blurred over the last decade. BoA and WF both have inhouse investment banking services but these services are not offered in every retail location to my knowledge. 

 

I stand by my statement that BoA and WF both have larger banking footprints then Chase. I will amend that to say larger retail banking footprints if that makes the point I was trying to illustrate more clear. The numbers I quoted in this response all came from BoA and Chases websites. 

 

I can not drive more then 300 feet in any direction in North Carolina with out seeing a BoA or WF this is probably due to both banks having deep roots in North Carolina but even though we are not the biggest State in the US. At the 10th largest with close to 10million people we not exactly small potatoes either yet Chase has zero retail presence in NC. Trust me I know spent a couple days several months ago trying to find any Chase location here even asked for help on these boards to open a banking account to take advantage of the 10+10 deal. Closes one to me was West Virginia. Meaning Chase has no retail footprint in Virginia, Tenn, or South Carolina  exculding another 20 million customer all of which BoA services. 


here's a few things you need to consider. 

 

1. Some of the bigger banks are focused on the bigger markets, because of the human density, and often the higher spending power of urban dwellers. With just 1 branch, they can reach out to many more customers than they would in dust bowl states or other in the middle of nowhere states. I'm not trying to say x state is better than y state or anything; it's just the economics of things. Just because certain companies don't do as much business in certain states, doesn't mean they are much smaller. Just look at the recent speech given by T-Mobile's CEO as a good example. They're investing heavily in urban cities rather than the mid-west or southern states because each investment dollar can benefit and reach out to more customers as compared to those areas. Also to add, I'm not disagreeing with you or anything. Bank of America is a big bank and a prime one at it too definitely, there's nothing to dispute. 

 

2. JPMorgan (investment bank) was (and still is if compared in today's terms) much smaller compared to Bank One (commercial bank). You can read up on their merger history. It's quite a mess, but it's similar to our telecommunications companies in the US. Only reason why they kept the JP Morgan and Chase names is because those names are much more recognizable. Just like how Cingular decided to rename to AT&T after its acquisition of AT&T. 

 

3. Also to add, some of the small cities are too small for literally 2-3 banks to even compete. It doesn't make financial sense at times to open a branch / office just to cater to a few hundred people. Or some companies are so dominant in certain areas that other companies don't even try to enter the market and compete because they feel that their dollars are better invested elsewhere. Good example being Wells Fargo. Prior to the Wachovia acquisition, it's really hard to find them on the East Coast. Cable companies are another good example.

 

4.There's a very blur line between commercial and investment banking from the bank's perspective. Mortages obtained from commercial banks are sometimes packaged together and sold to or financed by Investment banking arms.  A lot of the loans (mortages, student loans, etc) that one might have obtained from a bank, are sometimes later sold to bigger banks. Countrywide used to do that while it existed, and Fannie / Freddie does that a lot too as well even today. Some banks prefer buying loans in bulk from other companies, rather than trying to get customers 1 at a time.

 

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TimeToRecover
Posts: 658
Registered: ‎03-21-2013
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Re: Is credit card industry lucrative???

Well having to analyze failed banking institutions overthe last 3years for work. These are the banks that failed and were closed by the FDIC.  The reason for failure was the same basically for all of them coming down to 3 different things.  1.  illegal dealings of the bank officers, 2. not enough diversification (to much in mortgages and when the mortgages were defaulted the end, 3. mismanagement of funds. 

 

Do notice that CC's are not even a consideration. 


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bribro
Posts: 1,367
Registered: ‎04-20-2012
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Re: Is credit card industry lucrative???


solxp wrote:

bribro wrote:

solxp wrote:

Banks like WF and BoA make a ton of money off gouging there low income customers. 90% of people with a BoA or WF card also bank with one of them I would bet 90% of chase card holders do not bank with Chase due to there much smaller Banking footprint. Companies like First Premier make make millions each year in profits and they cater to HIGH RISK people who other banks wont touch. 



They say 90% of statistics are made up on the spot, and that's definitely the case here. :smileyhappy:

 

JPMorganChase is the largest U.S. bank by assets AND by deposits, with ~$2.5 trillion and ~$1.1 trillion, respectively. By no means do they have a small banking footprint. That may have been the case 5 years ago before the WaMu acquistion and their aggressive expansion in the West Coast, but no more.


They say you can twist numbers to show whatever outcome you desire and that's def the case here,,,,:smileylol:

 

JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A.,  Chase, is a national bank that constitutes the consumer and  comerical banking subsidiary of the banking corporation JPMorgan Chase, Your number are not correct in regards to the banking assets you listed the entire Companys assets. Chase BANK operated in 23 states less then half the states in the US.  BoA is found in all 50 states. I am not a mathmatician but I would take to mean BoA's footprint is alot larger then Chases.  I think maybe the diffrences in opinion in this thread might be in how each person is defining the term Bank. Its gotten confusing over the last 10 years I agree. Banks like BoA and WF get the biggest chunk of thier profits from fee's charged to there customers and from tradiional loans. Chase on the other hand became the big boy on the block via investements and other area and then in order to diversify and capture other revenue streams they expanded their offerings to include retail banking. There still make the majority of thier profits not from fee's from banking customers or mortage/loans but from investment management and other areas outside traditional banking products. 

 

Bank to me means the branch I go to when I need to apply for a loan or open my safe deposit box or cash a check. I consider JP morgan to be an investment banker. I bank with USAA and BB&T. I invest with Morgan Stanley. I view retail banking seperate from investment banking. While the line has become alot more blurred over the last decade. BoA and WF both have inhouse investment banking services but these services are not offered in every retail location to my knowledge. 

 

I stand by my statement that BoA and WF both have larger banking footprints then Chase. I will amend that to say larger retail banking footprints if that makes the point I was trying to illustrate more clear. The numbers I quoted in this response all came from BoA and Chases websites. 

 

I can not drive more then 300 feet in any direction in North Carolina with out seeing a BoA or WF this is probably due to both banks having deep roots in North Carolina but even though we are not the biggest State in the US. At the 10th largest with close to 10million people we not exactly small potatoes either yet Chase has zero retail presence in NC. Trust me I know spent a couple days several months ago trying to find any Chase location here even asked for help on these boards to open a banking account to take advantage of the 10+10 deal. Closes one to me was West Virginia. Meaning Chase has no retail footprint in Virginia, Tenn, or South Carolina  exculding another 20 million customer all of which BoA services. 


 

Chase Consumer & Community Banking, the retail banking arm of JPMC, has ~5,623 braches in the United States, and is expanding rapidly. Chase has the most ATMs of any U.S. bank and they are second only to Wells Fargo in the number of physical U.S. branches; WF has ~6,311 branches, Bank of America has ~5,533 and Citibank only ~1,020. (SOURCE: http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/lbr/current/) BofA actually closed 250+ branches in 2012, with plans to close hundreds more this year. I actually did major in mathematics, and can tell you with great certainly that 5,623 is more than 5,533. Chase may not serve some states with physical branches (particularly in the midwest and south), but to imply, as you orginally did, that "90% of chase card holders do not bank with Chase due to there [sic] much smaller Banking footprint" is absurd.

 

 

"Banks like WF and BoA make a ton of money off gouging there low income customers." Please cite a source.

 

"90% of people with a BoA or WF card also bank with one of them I would bet 90% of chase card holders do not bank with Chase due to there much smaller Banking footprint." Please cite a source.

 

"Your number are not correct in regards to the banking assets you listed the entire Companys assets." I specifically said deposits. SOURCE: http://www.statisticbrain.com/largest-banks-by-total-deposits/ If you disagree, please cite a source.

 

"Banks like BoA and WF get the biggest chunk of thier profits from fee's charged to there customers and from tradiional loans. Chase on the other hand became the big boy on the block via investements and other area and then in order to diversify and capture other revenue streams they expanded their offerings to include retail banking. There still make the majority of thier profits not from fee's from banking customers or mortage/loans but from investment management and other areas outside traditional banking products." This is a grossly simplified statement and reflects your lack of knowledge on this topic. I suggest you look at the income sheets of these companies you are posting about. You can start with JPMC's annual shareholder report which shows that JPMC in fact does make "the biggest chunk of thier [sic] profits from fee's [sic] charged to there [sic] customers and from tradiional [sic] loans." SOURCE: http://investor.shareholder.com/jpmorganchase/annual.cfm

 

Please do not write on topics you know almost nothing about. It is very confusing to forum readers.

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CreditScholar
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Re: Is credit card industry lucrative???

The South and Midwest are generally speaking the poorest areas of the country, and as such Chase may simply not find it worth their while to open up branches in these places. As a bank that is aimed at higher earning clients with high net worth, it would make sense for them to focus on areas where there are greater concentrations of wealth. This is especially true if Chase has a larger than average focus on investment banking compared to BofA and others who have traditionally focused more on retail banking services. It may not be the only reason, but to be blunt one major factor is that these areas are frankly too poor (on average) to be bothered with given their business model.
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Astraywhit
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Registered: ‎04-27-2013
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Re: Is credit card industry lucrative???

Credit cards ideally would be making money off of merchants so companies such as Chase (10 pts per swipe before they changed it just a few months ago anyone?) encourage customers to charge...everything...everyday purchases

Because it is a certain % per swipe, with minimum of x cents made..so that's why merchants don't like purchases below a certain dollar amount

But then credit cards got greedy and saw people stupidly or unfortunately (based on circumstances) carry balance and the APR which they impose to (again, originally) deter customers from keep owing them money and never really paying (they have to have their $$ back at some point and NOT have you wipe it away with bk (before bk laws changed past years)

So then it's like double dipping, merchants pay them no matter what; if people get a little behind, they make even more money.

Problem with that, much like mortgage mess, much like how states/federal spend more, or rather based on expected income (income taxes, sales tax, easiest ex. I can illustrate)

Then suddenly find themselves without the expected cash flow..

It's like letting people purchase thinking they'll have that job to fall back on in earning income and snap, the job disappears

Or some unexpected emergency comes up (medical bills seems most popular) and they have no funds to pay off in full

Or..you get the picture

So yes, credit card companies are very lucrative but they're essentially taking on a bet when they lend out--they want to make profit of course, and on merchant fees alone it would suffice (otherwise you wouldn't hear merchants clamoring together to change this through law)

But they can't help but be greedy, and there runs the risk
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Revelate
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Re: Is credit card industry lucrative???

Different banks focus on different things: Wells is pretty much the king of mortgage loan origination these days.

Most financial institutions are obscenely large anyway, whether they choose to compete in all product categories is purely a business decision. WF still does personal loans as an example, whereas BOFA stopped several years ago, and I think Chase is similar in that regard.

Also I think Wells might be more business loan friendly as well but I don't have much to back that up other than a few stories from folks around here.

Also, Fannie and Freddie don't count, the entire purpose of their existence is to foster liquidity in the mortgage market; they simply buy bundled mortgages from the loan originators after something like 90 days.
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