It happened!! 4506 T Request-UPDATE

[barbaralee]

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@clocktick wrote:

When you apply for an Amex, isn't it HHI?  I would think that would make the request a bit more difficult for some people.  Then are you required to send in the entire household's?

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It is individual income, per the new cc laws it has to be indidvidual income... no more household income unless it is joint. Not even auth users can count as household.

[RockinRay]

Interesting. Amex has always asked me for HHI - even when the card has only been in my name.

Ray

[trumpet-205]

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@barbaralee wrote:

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@clocktick wrote:

When you apply for an Amex, isn't it HHI?  I would think that would make the request a bit more difficult for some people.  Then are you required to send in the entire household's?

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It is individual income, per the new cc laws it has to be indidvidual income... no more household income unless it is joint. Not even auth users can count as household.

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I believe that is for those who are under 21 years old.

[barbaralee]

I don't know what you are referring to for people under 21, but I know 110% that it is individual income per the new credit card laws. That being said, I have had a few underwriters' make an exception... but it was a major exception... and tbh I know for myself and my colleagues when people give us hhi we don't completely discourage it. Just yesterday the guy sitting next to me was pushing hard for the member he was on the phone with to get a new cc due to her circumstances, but her app got routed to underwriting and he had to admit the income that was stated was household. technically due to the credit card laws Amex should not be taking hhi for individual apps.

[barbaralee]

Here is a recent blog on the issue: http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/stay-at-home-moms-and-the-need-for-credit/

[trumpet-205]

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@barbaralee wrote:
Here is a recent blog on the issue: http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/stay-at-home-moms-and-the-need-for-credit/

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CARD Act specifically says for those who are under 21 years old, they need to provide their own income (proof of income), or get a cosigner.

Some lenders and the feds however, expand the interpretation to everyone. For those who are 22 years and older, it is perfectly legal to put down total household income.

[haulingthescoreup]

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@Walt_K wrote:

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@dallasjetfan wrote:

This is why I will never go for an AMEX.  It is none of their business how much money I make nor what I pay for taxes!!!  

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I never understand statements like this.  If you had said, it's none of their business whether I'm married, what my child's SSN number is, or any of various other things that go into your tax returns, I'd get it.  But saying that it's none of your creditor's business how much money you make is foolish. 

The only reason people hold to this is because there are other creditors that won't ask for this information.  That's fine.  If you have other options, you should certainly take them.  But that doesn't mean that there's something crazy about this kind of request before you lend someone money.  It's a more conservative business model.  If you disagree, I could use a loan for $10K.

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And they can have my paystubs.

But tax returns? With the names and socials of my dependents, and my charitable contributions, and my medical deductions, and how much I put in my 401(k)? Hunh-unh. That is none of their business. A big part of my job involves privacy and need-to-know, and I'm also very aware of how easily confidential info can leak out.

Not trying to nit-pick with you ; I just think that there are other ways that a lender can verify income and evaluate credit-worthiness. Paystubs + credit reports should be enough. If I look scary after that, fine; don't extend me credit. It's not my right to receive credit, but it's also not a lender's right to know irrelevant info about my finances.

[android01]

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@haulingthescoreup wrote:

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@Walt_K wrote:

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@dallasjetfan wrote:

This is why I will never go for an AMEX.  It is none of their business how much money I make nor what I pay for taxes!!!  

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I never understand statements like this.  If you had said, it's none of their business whether I'm married, what my child's SSN number is, or any of various other things that go into your tax returns, I'd get it.  But saying that it's none of your creditor's business how much money you make is foolish. 

The only reason people hold to this is because there are other creditors that won't ask for this information.  That's fine.  If you have other options, you should certainly take them.  But that doesn't mean that there's something crazy about this kind of request before you lend someone money.  It's a more conservative business model.  If you disagree, I could use a loan for $10K.

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And they can have my paystubs.

But tax returns? With the names and socials of my dependents, and my charitable contributions, and my medical deductions, and how much I put in my 401(k)? Hunh-unh. That is none of their business. A big part of my job involves privacy and need-to-know, and I'm also very aware of how easily confidential info can leak out.

Not trying to nit-pick with you ; I just think that there are other ways that a lender can verify income and evaluate credit-worthiness. Paystubs + credit reports should be enough. If I look scary after that, fine; don't extend me credit. It's not my right to receive credit, but it's also not a lender's right to know irrelevant info about my finances.

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+1000.  There is far more information in a tax return than just income information.  No credit  card is worth that level of intrusion.  I'm still somewhat surprised that some people would submit to this just to say they have an AMEX card in their wallet.  If AMEX is going to require this to extend credit, they should do it at application time vs. somewhere down the road when they see you spending outside of your "pattern" etc.    

[DI]

After crunching all the data using tpatterson's template, even if my AMEX accounts deletes after 10 years, my AAoAs would still be good. [Mod Cut]

Sorry DI, but we like to keep things G-Rated!

[Walt_K]

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@haulingthescoreup wrote:

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@Walt_K wrote:

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@dallasjetfan wrote:

This is why I will never go for an AMEX.  It is none of their business how much money I make nor what I pay for taxes!!!  

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I never understand statements like this.  If you had said, it's none of their business whether I'm married, what my child's SSN number is, or any of various other things that go into your tax returns, I'd get it.  But saying that it's none of your creditor's business how much money you make is foolish. 

The only reason people hold to this is because there are other creditors that won't ask for this information.  That's fine.  If you have other options, you should certainly take them.  But that doesn't mean that there's something crazy about this kind of request before you lend someone money.  It's a more conservative business model.  If you disagree, I could use a loan for $10K.

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And they can have my paystubs.

But tax returns? With the names and socials of my dependents, and my charitable contributions, and my medical deductions, and how much I put in my 401(k)? Hunh-unh. That is none of their business. A big part of my job involves privacy and need-to-know, and I'm also very aware of how easily confidential info can leak out.

Not trying to nit-pick with you ; I just think that there are other ways that a lender can verify income and evaluate credit-worthiness. Paystubs + credit reports should be enough. If I look scary after that, fine; don't extend me credit. It's not my right to receive credit, but it's also not a lender's right to know irrelevant info about my finances.

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I don't disagree that there are other less intrusive ways.  But the comment didn't seem directed to the other private information in a tax return, it was directed to annual income.  It most certainly is relevant to a lender how much money you make.  That was my point.