I think I have everything worked out (at least in my own head) but I thought I would run my idea by my friends here before mentioning it to my grandparents... here's what I'm thinking:
My grandparents have a single credit card with Wells Fargo, and a balance of approx. $2100. A year or so ago I got my grandmother to stop paying only the minimum and to send the amount from the 'box' on the first page of the bill to get it paid down faster... and it's working out great so far.
I help them with their banking, and I noticed today that they have been given a CLI to make the new credit limit $4300, but the APR for the bulk of the balance is 24.24% due to the card being used for overdraft protection several times while we transitioned the bills from my grandfather to my grandmother (he has dementia, and it was difficult for us to finally get him to let us help).
- Getting better cards is out of the question, as their credit has been damaged (another story) so we must work with what we have.
Today, I noticed their Wells card has a balance transfer option available... it's not the greatest deal, but it's for a fee of 4% (changing to 5% after 4/30/16) and the rate would be 4.99% for 15 months.
Here's my thought... I could use my NFCU card to send a balance transfer to pay off their Wells card, and after a month or so they (with my help) could in turn do a balance transfer from their Wells card to pay off my NFCU card. I would owe a couple of month's worth of interest (and a payment or two), but it would be minimal.
When the dust settles, they would be left with (roughly) the same balance, but a rate of 4.99% for 15 months (the regular purchase rate thereafter), and would end up saving several hundred dollars (I know it is amortized, but my "simple" math comes to saving > $400 over 15 months.)
Since they just got the CLI last month, I don't think there's a danger of Wells shutting them down (?), although I know that's always a possibility. Since the transactions will likely take a couple of statement periods, I don't think NFCU will have an issue with it from my end (if anything it would give the account some usage).
What are your thoughts? This seems really clear-cut, but I just want to know if I'm overlooking something obvious.
Thanks! 
@myjourney wrote:Ok UncB,
You know books are hard to read (long) ....Lol jk
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
You want to use your NFCU to pay off GM balance
and then
Use GM Wells to pay off your balance
@Sending the balance back to wells @ a lower rate
Correct?
Yep, that's basically the 'gist' of it.
I included all the small details since I know there are folks who would likely ask further down the thread, so I helped them out at the beginning... LOL (sorry about that... )
It seems cut-and-dry, but this is a lot of money for me, and I like to have a second (or third, or fourth...) pair of eyes to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.
@UncleB wrote:
@myjourney wrote:Ok UncB,
You know books are hard to read (long) ....Lol jk
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
You want to use your NFCU to pay off GM balance
and then
Use GM Wells to pay off your balance
@Sending the balance back to wells @ a lower rate
Correct?
Yep, that's basically the 'gist' of it.
I included all the small details since I know there are folks who would likely ask further down the thread, so I helped them out at the beginning... LOL (sorry about that... )
It seems cut-and-dry, but this is a lot of money for me, and I like to have a second (or third, or fourth...) pair of eyes to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.
Yes it could be done
If it had been strictly GM accounts from A-B then back to A .....I would be leary cause it may be caught
That was a method used in the 80's to maintain a balance w/o ever paying it off
Run up the cards and keep transferring the balance
However since it's 2 different persons (you and GM) I don't think it'll be detected
@myjourney wrote:
@UncleB wrote:
@myjourney wrote:Ok UncB,
You know books are hard to read (long) ....Lol jk
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
You want to use your NFCU to pay off GM balance
and then
Use GM Wells to pay off your balance
@Sending the balance back to wells @ a lower rate
Correct?
Yep, that's basically the 'gist' of it.
I included all the small details since I know there are folks who would likely ask further down the thread, so I helped them out at the beginning... LOL (sorry about that... )
It seems cut-and-dry, but this is a lot of money for me, and I like to have a second (or third, or fourth...) pair of eyes to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.
Yes it could be done
If it had been strictly GM accounts from A-B then back to A .....I would be leary cause it may be caught
That was a method used in the 80's to maintain a balance w/o ever paying it off
Run up the cards and keep transferring the balance
However since it's 2 different persons (you and GM) I don't think it'll be detected
That's what I'm thinking as well. I also just went back to the Wells site, and upon second-look noticed that not only will they send the BT directly to the other card, they will also do a transfer into your linked checking account if you prefer that.
So, my grandmother could simply give me a check (or transfer funds to my checking account) so the money paying off NFCU will be just like any other payment I make (not from an obvious BT). I don't know if NFCU would have noticed (or cared) either way, but this way seems rather risk-free.
I'm leaning on going through with it in a few weeks... still want to sleep on it, though. I'm "super-duper" careful anytime I deal with their funds, since right now I'm the only one in our large family that has access - I can't let anything go wrong (or look funny), if you know what I mean. 
@myjourney wrote:I know exactly what you mean
Bravo for looking out for elderly family.
In fact double BRAVO
Thanks... they've both been very good to me over the years, so it's the least I can do (I wish I was in a position to do much more).
I do think this is the right thing to do, though. Thanks for the double-check! 
@myjourney wrote:
@UncleB wrote:
@myjourney wrote:Ok UncB,
You know books are hard to read (long) ....Lol jk
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
You want to use your NFCU to pay off GM balance
and then
Use GM Wells to pay off your balance
@Sending the balance back to wells @ a lower rate
Correct?
Yep, that's basically the 'gist' of it.
I included all the small details since I know there are folks who would likely ask further down the thread, so I helped them out at the beginning... LOL (sorry about that... )
It seems cut-and-dry, but this is a lot of money for me, and I like to have a second (or third, or fourth...) pair of eyes to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.
Yes it could be done
If it had been strictly GM accounts from A-B then back to A .....I would be leary cause it may be caught
That was a method used in the 80's to maintain a balance w/o ever paying it off
Run up the cards and keep transferring the balance
However since it's 2 different persons (you and GM) I don't think it'll be detected
Not detectable or an issue if GM accounts are A -> B -> A anyhow. I've done it. As a one off, no bank will notice. Cycle it ten times, same amounts, yeah, that's an issue.
I'm concerned about the transfer from person A to person B accounts, but in this situation, likely not a stop to the transfers.
@NRB525 wrote:
@myjourney wrote:
@UncleB wrote:
@myjourney wrote:Ok UncB,
You know books are hard to read (long) ....Lol jk
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
You want to use your NFCU to pay off GM balance
and then
Use GM Wells to pay off your balance
@Sending the balance back to wells @ a lower rate
Correct?
Yep, that's basically the 'gist' of it.
I included all the small details since I know there are folks who would likely ask further down the thread, so I helped them out at the beginning... LOL (sorry about that... )
It seems cut-and-dry, but this is a lot of money for me, and I like to have a second (or third, or fourth...) pair of eyes to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.
Yes it could be done
If it had been strictly GM accounts from A-B then back to A .....I would be leary cause it may be caught
That was a method used in the 80's to maintain a balance w/o ever paying it off
Run up the cards and keep transferring the balance
However since it's 2 different persons (you and GM) I don't think it'll be detected
Not detectable or an issue if GM accounts are A -> B -> A anyhow. I've done it. As a one off, no bank will notice. Cycle it ten times, same amounts, yeah, that's an issue.
I'm concerned about the transfer from person A to person B accounts, but in this situation, likely not a stop to the transfers.
+1
That's my thinking as well.
Now that I know Wells will give cash into checking 'in lieu of' the balance transfer (at the same rate) I'll likely just have my grandmother do that, so there will only be one "actual" balance transfer, which is with NFCU.
When I did one with NFCU in early February, it seemed to be processed via automation (it was really fast) so it should draw a minimum of attention. I'll probably pay it back in two 'installments' just for kicks... NFCU has been good to me, so I don't have a problem paying them a few dollars of interest.
Just a quick follow-up (and data point)...
I ended up going through with the balance transfer, but I used my Capital One QS MasterCard instead of my NFCU card. Since it was going to be short-term and I inadvertently had a 'short-term' BT with NFCU back in Feb, I decided against pressing my luck. I'm extremely happy to have my Navy card, and the last thing I want to do is cause myself to get on their 'radar' due to unusual behavior. Plus, I didn't have the 0% promo to work with, anyway.
My QS MasterCard (recently upgraded from QS1) doesn't have a 0% promo, but it does have no-fee balance transfers at the normal purchase rate of 15.15%, which is actually a good fit for this situation anyway, so I went with it. The account is quite old (nine years this summer) and hardly gets any use these days, so this was an opportunity to show it some 'love'.
I did a BT to my grandfather's Wells Fargo card, and it posted to his account two days later. Instead of doing a BT right back, his Wells offer allowed for the funds to be transferred into a Wells checking account (same terms), so I took that option. I then added my MasterCard to my grandparent's bill pay and simply submitted a payment to Capital One.
The entire process took exactly six days, which is much faster than I had even hoped for, and now my grandfather's entire Wells balance is at the promo rate of 4.99% for the next 15 months (compared to +/- 24%), for a total savings of $400+ over the next year.
Thanks and huge shout-out to myjourney and NRB525 for reading through my 'book' and double-checking my logic. I'm aware this transaction probably seems rather straight-forward to most folks - and it was - but when making decisions for elderly relatives I try to cover all my bases, even (and especially) the 'bases' I don't think of.