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New Chase Recon Policy?

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red259
Super Contributor

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@Anonymous wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@onstar wrote:

Yup, sounds about right. I got 20+ new TLs in 2015, including Marriott & IHG. I got Slate, Amazon, Southwest in late 2014. Total CL with Chase is almost $50K.

 

When I app'd for Freedom last month, I got the "too many new accounts" as a reason for denial. I offered to reduce my overall Chase CL down by $5K (reduce my IHG from $12K to $2K and get Freedom for $5K for a net reduction of $5K), and the response I got on 3 separate recon attempts were all the same: there is nothing they can do to overturn an app that was denied for too many new accounts opened. I love Chase, and I didn't want to risk AA, so I didn't pursue any further.

 


I'm a bit confused as I read other posts that said the five accounts in two years were five new chase accounts not accounts in general. Do we have people who are getting approved for chase cards with more than five new accounts in the past two years, but less than five of those cards were chase cards? Also, is anyone going for the chase ink plus and getting denied for the same reason or are business cards counted seperately? 


That specific denial reason is being given for all UR earning cards only, and the five count applies to all cards including non-Chase cards. I read reports of CSRs confiming that during recon attempts. It sounds like they are making it harder to even apply as a business, so there are some denials based on that instead of the "too many accounts in 2 years" policy.


If true it is remarkably short-sighted of Chase and will result in a loss of business customers as a result. It is not unlikely that many people who run small businesses would have five new accounts over the course of two years. Three personal cards and two business cards. Say those accounts are a year and a half old. Under this policy chase would deny a customer a business card. It just seems ridiculous to have such an arbitrary standard. It doesn't sound right. I could understand if someone had five new chase accounts within two years, but five new accounts in general that makes no sense in my mind. 


It's theoretically possible they've sucessfully put together a profile that distinguishes between churners and "normals" with reasonable accuracy. Maybe it only displays that impossible to overturn rejection when all conditions are met. Otherwise, their new accounts would plummet as you said for both business and personal customers.

I find it unlikely that things will stay as they are for very long. I think they'll ultimately settle on a more reasonable threshold like 5 accounts in a year if they don't go back to the status quo completely.


Yes, I too find it unlikely that this policy will last long. I don't think five cards in two years is an indication someone is a credit card churner (most the people here would be churners in that case), so I am skeptical that churning is the cause of all of this. 

;
Starting Score: EQ: 714, TU 684
Current Score: EQ: 725 7/30/13, TU 684 6/2013, Exp 828 5/2018, Last App 8/5/17
Goal Score: 800 (Achieved!) In garden until Sepetember 2019
Message 51 of 82
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@Anonymous wrote:

@Bman70 wrote:


IDK, Chase has always picked a reason to highlight, when in fact the entire profile goes into the decision. 2 years seems like a long time frame for them to go back. It seems like one of those rules that is enforced if you have a certain profile, but let slide if you're above a certain score. They don't necessarily share that though.

But we're bound to have someone on the forum who got a Freedom in the last few days, and has more than 5 accounts. Come on, Freedom has always been the app spree favorite. :-D

I have 4 new accounts in the past year, and have been eyeing that Freedom $200. Discover hasn't reported yet (approved on Monday), so that makes 3 new accounts. Smiley Wink Maybe I should apply before it reports. 


See my post earlier in the thread,


Are you sure all 7 of your accounts were reporting at the time of application? 

Message 52 of 82
Closingracer99
Valued Contributor

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@Anonymous wrote:
Chase only offers 3 non co-branded cards so the 5 limit only applying to that doesn't seem to make sense...unless the limit is 5 total chase cards in 2 years and then if the 6 is a chase non cobranded it gets declined maybe (ie ritz, Marriott, ihg, slate, csp and then freedom) where a different order may get you approved for all 6

It's very interesting to me as I have 2 chase but eyes on at least 3 more

I've had 6 chase cards at one point last December. Had the CSP, freedom, Marriott, slate, Amazon and cs. Closed down the CS since I now have the CSP and got majority of my cards last year 


My Cards: Amex BCE: $9,000, Amex Hilton HHonors: $2,000, Amex ED: $12,000, Barclays NFL extra points: $3,000, Bank of America MLB cash rewards: $17,000, BBVA compass NBA Amex triple double rewards: $17,000, Chase Amazon: $1,000, Chase Freedom: $9,000, Chase Sapphire: $5,000, Chase Slate: $5,000, Chase Disney: $4,000, Citi Double Cash: $5,400, Citi AA plat: $5,500, Citi Simplicity: $3,000, Citi Thank you preferred: $8,800, Capital one GM: $2,000, Capital one PlayStation: $3,000, Gamestop: $1,150, Amazon Store: $5,000, Ebay MasterCard: $5,000, American Eagle Storecard: $750, Macy's: $500
EX: 744, TU:750, EQ: 740
Message 53 of 82
Credit-hoarder
Valued Contributor

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@red259 wrote:

@Revelate wrote:

@Credit-hoarder wrote:

Again, I'm pretty sure it's all of their cards including the co-branded ones that they're tightening up on. I app'ed for Marriott and was given the too many new acct. and too many accts. period reason, and I already have the CSP and Freedom (9 mos and 1 yr.-2 mos. respectively for both). But the funny thing is during recon attempts they only cited 16 total accts. when at the time I have about 23 total accts. with 2 not reporting yet. I'm guessing they didn't count my 5 at the time store cards? So I'm guessing they don't count store cards....? But again I'm pretty certain it is ALL CHASE CARDS that they're enforcing the 2 year policy on and not just thier own.


Traditionally co-branded cards from virtually every lender have had different UW requirements on them.  Amex Delta Gold back in the day was the easy example to look at before Amex dropped their UW critera across the board in 2012 (least based on forum experiences, suddenly everyone on the fence was getting approved and the line moved way down credit strata wise, not scientific evidence).  It'll be interesting to see the volume of responses if we get a flurry of travel card applications like we did with the Ritz a bit ago.  Denial reasons do go to UW changes, but the recon policy is probably the same for any admittedly.

 

The partner does get a vote, though I honestly don't know how much it is... and you figure the money goes both ways on a co-brand.  I don't know how that works to be fair.

 

Possibly they didn't count the retail tradelines but I wouldn't count on it, I would actually find that suspect... could just be whoever you reconned had credit cards and retail lines split differently in their summary screen which presumably they have, doubt they're going line by line through a credit file while you're on the phone, better ways for them to do that with some technology.


I don't know all the details of how it works either, but the whole idea of co-branded cards is for the airline/hotel to have a credit card that will encourage them to patronize their business. I would imagine a hotel chain would have a major problem with Chase if they entered in to a contract with them to issue a hotel credit card and then Chase significantly decreased the applicant pool. If I was running that hotel chain I would move my business to another lender who would be more reasonable with approvals, so this leads me to believe that may be one of the explanations as to why co-branded are treated a bit differently than UR cards in this situation. 


Well from the sound of it I went through the same jaw-breaking recon process as if I were applying for a Freedom or a CSP so it sounds to me that the co-branded cards ARE being given the same approval scrutiny as the dedicated Chase cards. And if what you're saying is correct, I see a potential fall-out coming between Chase and Marriott Hyatt, Ritz-Carlton, and any other co-branders as card membership starts to drop due to Chase's 2-year-rule on new accts. enforcement.

 

I just found it coincidental that during 2 or the 3 recons they didn't site all the accts. I have, but specically mentioned 16 when I had 21 or 22 at the time leaving out around 5.....the same number of store cards I had at the time also. But again it could have just been a coincidence.

BUSINESS
Rewards Pts.-Miles: UR-MR-TYP-Venture
Message 54 of 82
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Bman70 wrote:


IDK, Chase has always picked a reason to highlight, when in fact the entire profile goes into the decision. 2 years seems like a long time frame for them to go back. It seems like one of those rules that is enforced if you have a certain profile, but let slide if you're above a certain score. They don't necessarily share that though.

But we're bound to have someone on the forum who got a Freedom in the last few days, and has more than 5 accounts. Come on, Freedom has always been the app spree favorite. :-D

I have 4 new accounts in the past year, and have been eyeing that Freedom $200. Discover hasn't reported yet (approved on Monday), so that makes 3 new accounts. Smiley Wink Maybe I should apply before it reports. 


See my post earlier in the thread,


Are you sure all 7 of your accounts were reporting at the time of application? 


Yes, all were reporting. One from April, 2014, one from August 2014, three from January 2015, and two from April, 2015.

Message 55 of 82
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@Credit-hoarder wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@Revelate wrote:

@Credit-hoarder wrote:

Again, I'm pretty sure it's all of their cards including the co-branded ones that they're tightening up on. I app'ed for Marriott and was given the too many new acct. and too many accts. period reason, and I already have the CSP and Freedom (9 mos and 1 yr.-2 mos. respectively for both). But the funny thing is during recon attempts they only cited 16 total accts. when at the time I have about 23 total accts. with 2 not reporting yet. I'm guessing they didn't count my 5 at the time store cards? So I'm guessing they don't count store cards....? But again I'm pretty certain it is ALL CHASE CARDS that they're enforcing the 2 year policy on and not just thier own.


Traditionally co-branded cards from virtually every lender have had different UW requirements on them.  Amex Delta Gold back in the day was the easy example to look at before Amex dropped their UW critera across the board in 2012 (least based on forum experiences, suddenly everyone on the fence was getting approved and the line moved way down credit strata wise, not scientific evidence).  It'll be interesting to see the volume of responses if we get a flurry of travel card applications like we did with the Ritz a bit ago.  Denial reasons do go to UW changes, but the recon policy is probably the same for any admittedly.

 

The partner does get a vote, though I honestly don't know how much it is... and you figure the money goes both ways on a co-brand.  I don't know how that works to be fair.

 

Possibly they didn't count the retail tradelines but I wouldn't count on it, I would actually find that suspect... could just be whoever you reconned had credit cards and retail lines split differently in their summary screen which presumably they have, doubt they're going line by line through a credit file while you're on the phone, better ways for them to do that with some technology.


I don't know all the details of how it works either, but the whole idea of co-branded cards is for the airline/hotel to have a credit card that will encourage them to patronize their business. I would imagine a hotel chain would have a major problem with Chase if they entered in to a contract with them to issue a hotel credit card and then Chase significantly decreased the applicant pool. If I was running that hotel chain I would move my business to another lender who would be more reasonable with approvals, so this leads me to believe that may be one of the explanations as to why co-branded are treated a bit differently than UR cards in this situation. 


Well from the sound of it I went through the same jaw-breaking recon process as if I were applying for a Freedom or a CSP so it sounds to me that the co-branded cards ARE being given the same approval scrutiny as the dedicated Chase cards. And if what you're saying is correct, I see a potential fall-out coming between Chase and Marriott Hyatt, Ritz-Carlton, and any other co-branders as card membership starts to drop due to Chase's 2-year-rule on new accts. enforcement.

 

I just found it coincidental that during 2 or the 3 recons they didn't site all the accts. I have, but specically mentioned 16 when I had 21 or 22 at the time leaving out around 5.....the same number of store cards I had at the time also. But again it could have just been a coincidence.


There does seem to be more scrutiny across the board, which I don't think will necessarily be something that their partners would be happy about. However, it's only with their cards that analysts do not have the option to overturn the computer's decision. Although they may be grilling applicants more than usual with cobranded cards, it sounds like they are at least someone open to moving credit lines to open the accounts. And more importantly, they appear to have the power to overturn computer denials.

Message 56 of 82
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Bman70 wrote:


IDK, Chase has always picked a reason to highlight, when in fact the entire profile goes into the decision. 2 years seems like a long time frame for them to go back. It seems like one of those rules that is enforced if you have a certain profile, but let slide if you're above a certain score. They don't necessarily share that though.

But we're bound to have someone on the forum who got a Freedom in the last few days, and has more than 5 accounts. Come on, Freedom has always been the app spree favorite. :-D

I have 4 new accounts in the past year, and have been eyeing that Freedom $200. Discover hasn't reported yet (approved on Monday), so that makes 3 new accounts. Smiley Wink Maybe I should apply before it reports. 


See my post earlier in the thread,


Are you sure all 7 of your accounts were reporting at the time of application? 


Yes, all were reporting. One from April, 2014, one from August 2014, three from January 2015, and two from April, 2015.


Does your signature show all your open credit cards? If so, then I wonder if they are only using this too many accounts in last 2 years if you also happen to have more than X number of accounts. I'm guessing everyone reporting denials on other forums has a pretty large number of credit cards and most of the people here have a large number as well.

 

ZeroViBritannia, do you have 9 accounts exactly or are there some store cards you might not be including in your signature?

Message 57 of 82
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Bman70 wrote:


IDK, Chase has always picked a reason to highlight, when in fact the entire profile goes into the decision. 2 years seems like a long time frame for them to go back. It seems like one of those rules that is enforced if you have a certain profile, but let slide if you're above a certain score. They don't necessarily share that though.

But we're bound to have someone on the forum who got a Freedom in the last few days, and has more than 5 accounts. Come on, Freedom has always been the app spree favorite. :-D

I have 4 new accounts in the past year, and have been eyeing that Freedom $200. Discover hasn't reported yet (approved on Monday), so that makes 3 new accounts. Smiley Wink Maybe I should apply before it reports. 


See my post earlier in the thread,


Are you sure all 7 of your accounts were reporting at the time of application? 


Yes, all were reporting. One from April, 2014, one from August 2014, three from January 2015, and two from April, 2015.


Does your signature show all your open credit cards? If so, then I wonder if they are only using this too many accounts in last 2 years if you also happen to have more than X number of accounts. I'm guessing everyone reporting denials on other forums has a pretty large number of credit cards and most of the people here have a large number as well.

 

ZeroViBritannia, do you have 9 accounts exactly or are there some store cards you might not be including in your signature?


Yep, all my current cards. I closed three last month. Merrick, which is the April 2014. Juniper, from January 2010, and QS1 from January 2008.

Message 58 of 82
Bman70
Established Contributor

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?

 


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Bman70 wrote:



But we're bound to have someone on the forum who got a Freedom in the last few days, and has more than 5 accounts. Come on, Freedom has always been the app spree favorite. :-D
 


See my post earlier in the thread,


Are you sure all 7 of your accounts were reporting at the time of application? 


Yes, all were reporting. One from April, 2014, one from August 2014, three from January 2015, and two from April, 2015.


OK so as always, it's a selective rule that is enforced depending on the aggregate profile data. Who knows, maybe they have a whole flow chart, "If applicant has 5 new cards in last 2 years, check AAoA, if under 3 years, check score, if under 740 deny." Of course, they also probably have certain quotas, account building phases and then periods where accounts don't need to be added so aggressively.. Still, if they're offering the $200 promo that seems to indicate an account building phase, so it's odd the denials would happen now. 


CAPTOOL, what was your util overall / individual when you applied? I have a suspicion that 2% and under utilization is making them think you don't need credit or aren't using it. So are unlikely to use theirs. 


EX 822
TU 834
EQ 820


Message 59 of 82
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: New Chase Recon Policy?


@Bman70 wrote:

 


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Bman70 wrote:



But we're bound to have someone on the forum who got a Freedom in the last few days, and has more than 5 accounts. Come on, Freedom has always been the app spree favorite. :-D
 


See my post earlier in the thread,


Are you sure all 7 of your accounts were reporting at the time of application? 


Yes, all were reporting. One from April, 2014, one from August 2014, three from January 2015, and two from April, 2015.


OK so as always, it's a selective rule that is enforced depending on the aggregate profile data. Who knows, maybe they have a whole flow chart, "If applicant has 5 new cards in last 2 years, check AAoA, if under 3 years, check score, if under 740 deny." Of course, they also probably have certain quotas, account building phases and then periods where accounts don't need to be added so aggressively.. Still, if they're offering the $200 promo that seems to indicate an account building phase, so it's odd the denials would happen now. 


CAPTOOL, what was your util overall / individual when you applied? I have a suspicion that 2% and under utilization is making them think you don't need credit or aren't using it. So are unlikely to use theirs. 


Overall was 3%. That consisted of one card at $858/$4000 with the rest reporting zero.

Message 60 of 82
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