Offset AAoA Hit With Another AMEX?

[ezdoesit]

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@slap_happy wrote:

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@carlosjgg wrote:

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@slap_happy wrote:
@ezdoesit I understand you might think it unethical, but let me say something, backdating is anAMEX policy not something the consumer can make happen. Next,Amex reports the account as x many years open, not something the consumer can make happen, also, closing an account is a consumer right and stays on your report for 10 years not by consumers choice but by law I believe. So using a system tosomeone's advantage in my opinion is by no means unethical but smart, just the same as getting acli that you don't need to buffer utilization. It's just smart management.

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lets faced amex is fabricating a false aaoa on people's report that is unethical, because it is on your favor it is ok, but what would you said if it was against you.

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you have the right to your opinion about weather what amex does is unethical or not, me or anyone else using it to their advantage is not unethical, why? because the consumer has nothing to to with how amex decides to report it, if its to my benifit I will use it as much as I can, if amex did something that would hurt me, I would probably not have a card with them or try to minimize as much as possible, if you really feel that its unethical let me ask, do you have an amex? if you do, do you let banks know that your AAoA is tainted when you apply?

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So as long as benefits you it is fair game?  These types of behaviors are the reason proagrams get nerfed.  Amex recently has started to get real strict on sign up bonuses probably because they realized how many people were abusing them now with the internet and sites promoting this behavior consumers who just want a good rewards program.  I am thinking that Amex will change the MSD but who is to stay that a CCC like Chase or Citi with their own internal scoring don't factor this info.

Chase pulls someones credit and in their scoring they see the person has had 5 Amex in the last two years none with any seven years of payment history.  There is no way to calculate how telling someone just apply for another Amex card to increase their AAoa really helps them in the long run.  In fact this behavior could actually hurt them.

Yes I do have Amex cards a PRG I got in 8/13 and a EDP that I got on 4/14.  So to answer your question I don't tell them that my report is tainted because that extra year does really do much for me and in ten, twenty years I don't plan adding another Amex TL for the sole to just to add to my AAoa only if I have use for the card.

[slap_happy]

So in other words, what your saying is that if I use something that I have no control over (remember, it's amex's policy) to my advantage that it's unethical, hmmmm. So should we all then just make sure that all our credit cards are in the favor of the banks? Cause God forbid, we use something to our advantage. We should not max out our 5% categories then cause maybe the banks will nerf it, don't wait for the better sing up bonuses, cause the banks might not offer them anymore etc. That doesn't sound ethical to me, let me ask this, what then would be ethical but be in the consumers favor as well?

[slap_happy]

But at the end of the day, you have your opinion I have mine, the forum is for our opinions, I don't see it as unethical but I'm sure others will disagree.

[ezdoesit]

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@slap_happy wrote:
So in other words, what your saying is that if I use something that I have no control over (remember, it's amex's policy) to my advantage that it's unethical, hmmmm. So should we all then just make sure that all our credit cards are in the favor of the banks? Cause God forbid, we use something to our advantage. We should not max out our 5% categories then cause maybe the banks will nerf it, don't wait for the better sing up bonuses, cause the banks might not offer them anymore etc. That doesn't sound ethical to me, let me ask this, what then would be ethical but be in the consumers favor as well?

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Abuse of any program. So opening up multiple Amex with one sole purpose with no other intention to me is abuse how could it not be perceived as such.  It is no different than when people were using VR or MS but you think that wold be ok because you didn't make the rules.

what then would be ethical but be in the consumers favor as well.  Aren't reward cards in general in the consumers favor.  The rewards that people get now didn't exist 25 years ago or if they did not to the extent that they do now.  Back then people were still using credit cards just like they do now maybe not to the same degree.

Not to mention telling someone to open up another CC for AAoa purposes without fully knowing how these actions are going to affect a person in the future. 

[itguy_65]

So, my MSD date is 1987.  If I open another account with AMEX, that will increase my AAoA by an additional account with 27 years?  Even if it is a Gold Rewards or Platinum??  How many accounts can I have with them?

[longtimelurker]

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@ezdoesit wrote:

I don't understand when somebody says this they punish you for being late and it stays on your report for seven years.  I having had awful credit just 2 years ago don't blame the banks I knew the rules when I sign into the agreement so it was my fault if I was late not the banks.   

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We've been discussing some of this (off topic) in the High CL thread, but this would be a good example there.  Basically:

a) It's OK for the banks to punish you for being late because you knew the rules when you signed the agreement

but 

b) It's not ok to sign and dump for backdating and/or bonuses (or MS etc) even though the CCC "knew the rules" when they initiated the program

?

[longtimelurker]

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@sillykitty1 wrote:

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@ezdoesit wrote:

I would also think this pattern would border on unethical.  It is no different than churning except instead of points your manipulating your AAoa.  These are the kinds of behaviors that make CCC change their policies.  I am more referring to the person who wrote about doing it a few times per year and cancel before the AF kicks in.

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To my mind, and I have said this before, it is the backdating that is somewhat unethical, not our use of it.  Similar feelings about soft customer-initiated CLIs.   Part of the purpose of the system is to get a predictive record of the consumer, so a lender can judge how likely this consumer is to default.   Once of the factors is how much they are seeking credit, monitored by HPs.  The several issuers who give SPs are corrupting this data.  Another factor is AAoA, backdating pollutes this too.

In my example, I had an Amex from 1987-1988.  When I got a new one in 2007, that was dated back to 1987.  And it looks (correctly) that in 2007, I hadn't made a late payment on that card in all of the 20 years.  Good achievement!   But I only had the card a year, so didn't really have much opportunity to show good or bad history, but the record looks like it was all good.  Which is deceiving to other lenders.

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There are a couple of points here I disagree with.

First, CR's only show 7 years of payment history, not the life of the card.  So no matter if it was a backdated account or not, any payment history more than 7 years ago would be unknown.

Secondly, and most importantly, back dating and SP CLI's are both tranparent during manual review.  IMO an issuer knows how other issuers behave, backdating, SP CLI's etc., and if they feel that if those corruptes or pollutes one's credit, then they should manually review all apps, like some issuers do (JCB as an example).  So if an issuer wants to save on labor and do auto approvals, that's a cost/benefit they have weighed.

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Not sure how a failed SP CLI can  be revealed in review, although it is still seeking credit.    

[slap_happy]

Excellent point lurker, I think that's puts this to rest. Great point

[slap_happy]

@itguy_65 yes, you get any personal Amex, it will add a new account that will report as 27 years old, I love amex

[longtimelurker]

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@itguy_65 wrote:

So, my MSD date is 1987.  If I open another account with AMEX, that will increase my AAoA by an additional account with 27 years?  Even if it is a Gold Rewards or Platinum??  How many accounts can I have with them?

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Yes, your new card will apparently have been opened in 1987 and the actual month that you apply (or are approved in), sometimes leading to the new card being older than the old one.

The actual impact depends on how many open and closed lines are on your CR.