Other Lenders and Amex Backdating

[indiolatino61]

Hello All...my question is about Amex's backdating and other lenders. Do other lenders take into account that Amex may have backdated you when they see a very long age of account? For example, my AAoA went from 4 months to 4 years and 5 months when Amex reported an account date of 1988. Do they still see your much higher AAoA the same as a "true" AAoA without an Amex backdate? Thanks.

[NJTurnpike]

Savy lenders like a mortgage lender that manually scrurtinizes your report might notice it, but a manual review typically isn't to manually recalculate your AAoA. It is review payment histories, look at inquiry and balance information, review closed accounts.

AAoA is mainly a scoring component that helps to get a lender/creditor to look at you. It seems a bit far-fetched to then get rejected in whole or part because they noticed backdating.

That said, savy lenders like chase or citi are certainly aware of Amex's policy of backdating. I'd find it hard to believe they don't take that into account with their internal credit risk models.

[Creditseeker93]

Actually wondering the same. I know a lot of lenders (such as Chase) like to see AMEX on credit profile.

[bs6054]

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@NJTurnpike wrote:

Savy lenders like a mortgage lender that manually scrurtinizes your report might notice it, but a manual review typically isn't to manually recalculate your AAoA. It is review payment histories, look at inquiry and balance information, review closed accounts.

AAoA is mainly a scoring component that helps to get a lender/creditor to look at you. It seems a bit far-fetched to then get rejected in whole or part because they noticed backdating.

That said, savy lenders like chase or citi are certainly aware of Amex's policy of backdating. I'd find it hard to believe they don't take that into account with their internal credit risk models.

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At least on our own credit reports it is very easy to see a backdated account.   I have for example an Amex with an open date of 1987, with months reporting given as 12 (since I got the card a year ago) whereas most of my other cards show months reporting as "99" which seems to be the max in this field.

But as NJTurnpike says, most non-mortgage lenders aren't going to take the time to process this, unless the account is really borderline and for some reason they want to look in detail rather than simply reject.    It's likely that while AAoA is a factor in the score (which may determine whether or not the lender considers your app at all), during review it isn't as critical as the other overall stuff, ontime payments, lates etc.

Still think it shouldn't be allowed as it has no real basis.  As I wrote recently, my backdated 1987 Amex covers me having a gold from 87-89, and then no Amex at all until 2007.  So to say I have a long history with Amex is stretching the truth quite a lot!

[distantarray]

1. payment history

2. balance credit / debt

3. how many accounts

If these 3 are fine, then you won't have to worry, coming straight from a mortgage broker's mouth.

[improvingmycredit]

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@bs6054 wrote:

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@NJTurnpike wrote:

Savy lenders like a mortgage lender that manually scrurtinizes your report might notice it, but a manual review typically isn't to manually recalculate your AAoA. It is review payment histories, look at inquiry and balance information, review closed accounts.

AAoA is mainly a scoring component that helps to get a lender/creditor to look at you. It seems a bit far-fetched to then get rejected in whole or part because they noticed backdating.

That said, savy lenders like chase or citi are certainly aware of Amex's policy of backdating. I'd find it hard to believe they don't take that into account with their internal credit risk models.

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At least on our own credit reports it is very easy to see a backdated account.   I have for example an Amex with an open date of 1987, with months reporting given as 12 (since I got the card a year ago) whereas most of my other cards show months reporting as "99" which seems to be the max in this field.

But as NJTurnpike says, most non-mortgage lenders aren't going to take the time to process this, unless the account is really borderline and for some reason they want to look in detail rather than simply reject.    It's likely that while AAoA is a factor in the score (which may determine whether or not the lender considers your app at all), during review it isn't as critical as the other overall stuff, ontime payments, lates etc.

Still think it shouldn't be allowed as it has no real basis.  As I wrote recently, my backdated 1987 Amex covers me having a gold from 87-89, and then no Amex at all until 2007.  So to say I have a long history with Amex is stretching the truth quite a lot!

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Hey All!

I humbly disagree with this ^^^^.  :-)  All lenders have specific benefits to being a card holder or "membership".  Amex makes no qualms about "once a card member- always a card member" and this is one aspect of what makes Amex unique.  Other CC companies have the ability to do the very same thing.  Why they don't - I don't understand.  

However - with regards to AAoA, many lenders have certain critieria for instant approval.  Having a high AAoA along with a good payment history allows one to bypass "manual review" to gain that instant approval via automated system.  This is how Amex backdating helps.  During manual review- it is evident that backdating has taken place but then, most underwriters take into account the fact that it is an Amex account and that doesn't hurt either.  :-)

[RyVision]

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@improvingmycredit wrote:

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@bs6054 wrote:

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@NJTurnpike wrote:

Savy lenders like a mortgage lender that manually scrurtinizes your report might notice it, but a manual review typically isn't to manually recalculate your AAoA. It is review payment histories, look at inquiry and balance information, review closed accounts.

AAoA is mainly a scoring component that helps to get a lender/creditor to look at you. It seems a bit far-fetched to then get rejected in whole or part because they noticed backdating.

That said, savy lenders like chase or citi are certainly aware of Amex's policy of backdating. I'd find it hard to believe they don't take that into account with their internal credit risk models.

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At least on our own credit reports it is very easy to see a backdated account.   I have for example an Amex with an open date of 1987, with months reporting given as 12 (since I got the card a year ago) whereas most of my other cards show months reporting as "99" which seems to be the max in this field.

But as NJTurnpike says, most non-mortgage lenders aren't going to take the time to process this, unless the account is really borderline and for some reason they want to look in detail rather than simply reject.    It's likely that while AAoA is a factor in the score (which may determine whether or not the lender considers your app at all), during review it isn't as critical as the other overall stuff, ontime payments, lates etc.

Still think it shouldn't be allowed as it has no real basis.  As I wrote recently, my backdated 1987 Amex covers me having a gold from 87-89, and then no Amex at all until 2007.  So to say I have a long history with Amex is stretching the truth quite a lot!

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Hey All!

I humbly disagree with this ^^^^.  :-)  All lenders have specific benefits to being a card holder or "membership".  Amex makes no qualms about "once a card member- always a card member" and this is one aspect of what makes Amex unique.  Other CC companies have the ability to do the very same thing.  Why they don't - I don't understand.  

However - with regards to AAoA, many lenders have certain critieria for instant approval.  Having a high AAoA along with a good payment history allows one to bypass "manual review" to gain that instant approval via automated system.  This is how Amex backdating helps.  During manual review- it is evident that backdating has taken place but then, most underwriters take into account the fact that it is an Amex account and that doesn't hurt either.  :-)

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I agree with that very much.  However, other cards are not able to backdate like AMEX does, AMEX has members vs card holders and are uniquely grandfathered in under banking rules to do this.  "Membership Has Its Privileges"  that would be one of them only AMEX can offer.

Also, an original membership date with AMEX, isn't a way to "game the system", it actually shows when you were first granted credit by a prime (very prime in most eyes) when for most lenders, that date would fall off a report.  So the backdated history is totally true, the payment history does nothing to hide the facts either good or bad.  A first day credit analyst knows what they're looking at regarding both, so rest assured, no one is "gaming the system" with back dating lol.

[NJTurnpike]

I stand corrected as I have never applied for a mortgage I will agree with what has been said. It appears membership does have its privleges.

[RyVision]

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@NJTurnpike wrote:

I stand corrected as I have never applied for a mortgage I will agree with what has been said. It appears membership does have its privleges.

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Actually, I (nor anyone else that I saw) was correcting  you on your original post (2nd post to this thread), so I hope you didn't think I was correcting  you.  You pretty much nailed it.  Only thing is, it's not just during a manual review for a mortgage or by certain lenders that an analyst sees an AMEX opened in 87 (for example) but with only a 28 month payment history.  They all know by looking at that page the person has experience with credit since 87, and being they are carrying a card issued by AMEX again, they probably didn't "burn" AMEX and a rather picky lender feels confident granting them credit.  It sort of solidifies the rest of the file.

Who would you rather loan money to.  Someone that FIRST got  credit 28 months ago, or someone who FIRST got credit 26 years ago and was welcomed back again by that same lender 28 months ago?  There's the honest benefit of AMEX's backdating.   Amazingly, the scoring system "reads" that AAoA with about the same "opinion" as a credit analyst (which is why it boosts a score through AAoA to some degree).

[bs6054]

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@RyVision wrote:

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@improvingmycredit wrote:

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@bs6054 wrote:

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@NJTurnpike wrote:

Savy lenders like a mortgage lender that manually scrurtinizes your report might notice it, but a manual review typically isn't to manually recalculate your AAoA. It is review payment histories, look at inquiry and balance information, review closed accounts.

AAoA is mainly a scoring component that helps to get a lender/creditor to look at you. It seems a bit far-fetched to then get rejected in whole or part because they noticed backdating.

That said, savy lenders like chase or citi are certainly aware of Amex's policy of backdating. I'd find it hard to believe they don't take that into account with their internal credit risk models.

---

At least on our own credit reports it is very easy to see a backdated account.   I have for example an Amex with an open date of 1987, with months reporting given as 12 (since I got the card a year ago) whereas most of my other cards show months reporting as "99" which seems to be the max in this field.

But as NJTurnpike says, most non-mortgage lenders aren't going to take the time to process this, unless the account is really borderline and for some reason they want to look in detail rather than simply reject.    It's likely that while AAoA is a factor in the score (which may determine whether or not the lender considers your app at all), during review it isn't as critical as the other overall stuff, ontime payments, lates etc.

Still think it shouldn't be allowed as it has no real basis.  As I wrote recently, my backdated 1987 Amex covers me having a gold from 87-89, and then no Amex at all until 2007.  So to say I have a long history with Amex is stretching the truth quite a lot!

---

Hey All!

I humbly disagree with this ^^^^.  :-)  All lenders have specific benefits to being a card holder or "membership".  Amex makes no qualms about "once a card member- always a card member" and this is one aspect of what makes Amex unique.  Other CC companies have the ability to do the very same thing.  Why they don't - I don't understand.  

However - with regards to AAoA, many lenders have certain critieria for instant approval.  Having a high AAoA along with a good payment history allows one to bypass "manual review" to gain that instant approval via automated system.  This is how Amex backdating helps.  During manual review- it is evident that backdating has taken place but then, most underwriters take into account the fact that it is an Amex account and that doesn't hurt either.  :-)

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I agree with that very much.  However, other cards are not able to backdate like AMEX does, AMEX has members vs card holders and are uniquely grandfathered in under banking rules to do this.  "Membership Has Its Privileges"  that would be one of them only AMEX can offer.

Also, an original membership date with AMEX, isn't a way to "game the system", it actually shows when you were first granted credit by a prime (very prime in most eyes) when for most lenders, that date would fall off a report.  So the backdated history is totally true, the payment history does nothing to hide the facts either good or bad.  A first day credit analyst knows what they're looking at regarding both, so rest assured, no one is "gaming the system" with back dating lol.

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OK, I guess the issue is I don't think Amex is (now at least) all that special, it's pretty easy to get an Amex Charge card, no guarantee of outstanding credit strength or anything.

However, other cards are not able to backdate like AMEX does, AMEX has members vs card holders and are uniquely grandfathered in under banking rules to do this

I'm not sure what that means, what banking rules allow Amex to do this and not others?  Seems strange and anti-competitive if true!    And members ARE card holders outside of marketing speak, my Blue Cash Preferred relationship with Amex is very much like my relationship with Citi via my AA Visa, I pay a fee, use a card, and get certain benefits back.

And yes, it is gaming the system precisely because other vendors don't do it.   If I had say a Penfed card 15 years ago, dropped it after two years because I stopped using gas or something, and then got another one 2 years ago, exactly the same logic applies, but under current practice, the old card will have dropped off the report and I would just have a two year old account.

Of course, this is just one way of gaming, as often mentioned here, paying before the statement cuts is also very good for the score, and that is pure gaming (unless someone has an argument that PIF on the 28th shows a better credit profile than PIF after the statement cuts on the 29th!)